Slight misfire, no eml...

PP200t · Jan 12, 2017

Switched the lambdas over today (before I buy/borrow a compression tester) and it's exactly the same. Would the car need time to adjust or realise it's got a better reading from the lambda or would it be instantaneously better?
I also had the plugs out, they are the correct ngk plugs and look ok, don't look fowled up or anything. Still no code on the reader or eml. it runs, just doesn't idle perfectly and you can feel slight hesitation while driving. Oh and the mpg is shocking. (Not only on the obc)

jamesycc · Jan 12, 2017

PP172 said:
Switched the lambdas over today (before I buy/borrow a compression tester) and it's exactly the same. Would the car need time to adjust or realise it's got a better reading from the lambda or would it be instantaneously better?
I also had the plugs out, they are the correct ngk plugs and look ok, don't look fowled up or anything. Still no code on the reader or eml. it runs, just doesn't idle perfectly and you can feel slight hesitation while driving. Oh and the mpg is shocking. (Not only on the obc)

injectors is my guess. One or more is on its way out.

PP200t · Jan 12, 2017

Cheers @jamesycc The engine note definately changes when you unplug them one by one though which suggests not. Do you know how to actually remove them?

jamesycc · Jan 12, 2017

PP172 said:
Cheers @jamesycc The engine note definately changes when you unplug them one by one though which suggests not. Do you know how to actually remove them?

remove the fuel guard rail at the front, 2x10mm nuts. Go steady as the studs can shear off. Wiggle it off and now you have access to the injector rail. Unplug each one. Disconnect the fuel line, on your left as you look at it. Its a squeeze and pull jobby. Do it wrapped in some rag as you'll get a bit of fuel squirt out. Then its just 2 10mm bolts at the front. Once they're out its a bit of wiggle and pulling, gently so youdont crack the plastic rail. Once its off you'll just need a flat blade screwdriver to pop the little metal.clips upwards and the injector should pull out with moderate force. It'll take you about 20 mins. Don't rush and remember to plug the fuel line back in before youcrank it over otherwise you'll be pumping fuel all over the place!

STEVE.M · Jan 12, 2017

PP172 said:
I also had the plugs out, they are the correct ngk plugs and look ok, don't look fowled up or anything. Still no code on the reader or eml. it runs, just doesn't idle perfectly and you can feel slight hesitation while driving. Oh and the mpg is shocking. (Not only on the obc)

If it`s not running correctly, at least 1 of the plugs should be a different colour.
Have a look through some you tube videos on plug colour.

What`s the MPG on the trip computer & how far are you driving it?
Have you checked the air filter is not clogged?
And get that compression test done

PP200t · Jan 12, 2017

Thanks mate.
The spark plugs looked normal comparing them with the YouTube video you've linked @STEVE.M (normal as ngk describe them, no sooting up or burnt marks.) all plugs were the same too.
Mpg is around 30 on the obc but actual is about 25, that's driving normally varied speeds and a 9 mile trip either way to and from work. Fast stretches and then 30 stretches.
Air filter doesn't appear blocked and the engine runs the same if the airbox is disconnected too. I'm going to have to check the injectors too I think. Maybe they aren't firing properly. Do you need to disconnect the fuel rail to check the spray pattern? Or just pull them out? At least two of them look newer or in better condition than the others so maybe the older ones are dying?

jamesycc · Jan 12, 2017

PP172 said:
Thanks mate.
The spark plugs looked normal comparing them with the YouTube video you've linked @STEVE.M (normal as ngk describe them, no sooting up or burnt marks.) all plugs were the same too.
Mpg is around 30 on the obc but actual is about 25, that's driving normally varied speeds and a 9 mile trip either way to and from work. Fast stretches and then 30 stretches.
Air filter doesn't appear blocked and the engine runs the same if the airbox is disconnected too. I'm going to have to check the injectors too I think. Maybe they aren't firing properly. Do you need to disconnect the fuel rail to check the spray pattern? Or just pull them out? At least two of them look newer or in better condition than the others so maybe the older ones are dying?

you'll need yo whip the rail off to check. Get a piece of cardboard inbetween them and the engine crank it over and you'll have a pattern to look at. If its really obvious you'll see it but tbh it doesn't tell you much. The only of knowing is to swap em out or you get a fault code. When my crappy idle was playing up I just swapped one of the 2 I hadn't replaced out one at a time to see what would happen, sure enough I had a failing injector as opposed to it being broken altogether. Be useful to try some used ones if you can as start, if not then buy a new one and try one at time to see if the misfire goes.

PP200t · Jan 12, 2017

Well unplugging them one by one changes the engine note every time so I doubt it's that. I'm starting to get annoyed with it now.

PP200t · Jan 12, 2017

I've tried to capture it on video (in the dark, with an ipotato...)
Its more audible from the exhaust towards the end but I wasn't going to mess about with trimming. I could just about work out uploading it. Lol

@STEVE.M @jamesycc

STEVE.M · Jan 12, 2017

PP172 said:
Thanks mate.
The spark plugs looked normal comparing them with the YouTube video you've linked @STEVE.M (normal as ngk describe them, no sooting up or burnt marks.) all plugs were the same too.
Mpg is around 30 on the obc but actual is about 25, that's driving normally varied speeds and a 9 mile trip either way to and from work. Fast stretches and then 30 stretches.
Air filter doesn't appear blocked and the engine runs the same if the airbox is disconnected too. I'm going to have to check the injectors too I think. Maybe they aren't firing properly. Do you need to disconnect the fuel rail to check the spray pattern? Or just pull them out? At least two of them look newer or in better condition than the others so maybe the older ones are dying?

OBC 30 mpg is not that out of order for that journey, especially if you leaving it ticking over while you defrost or scrape the ice off the glass.
It`s taking mine 5 miles from start up to get up to temperature some mornings at the moment.
If all the plugs are the same colour, you probably have not got a problem.
The correct plug is NGK PFR6E-10.
I have not changed them since I bought the car 3 years ago, so it`s on my to do list in the spring.
Regarding the electrical fault light, get the codes read, but take the readings with a pinch of salt, as it`s as likely to be a wiring fault as an actual component failure.
Good luck.

PP200t · Jan 12, 2017

Thanks @STEVE.M
There are no lights on the dash now at all. Nothing scanning on the code reader either. It's more the running that's not right. It's not so much a misfire but hiccup if that makes sense and you can hear it in the video above.

STEVE.M · Jan 12, 2017

PP172 said:
I've tried to capture it on video (in the dark, with an ipotato...)
Its more audible from the exhaust towards the end but I wasn't going to mess about with trimming. I could just about work out uploading it. Lol

@STEVE.M @jamesycc

Does not sound rough to me.
Where are you located?

PP200t · Jan 12, 2017

It's definately hiccuping on idle and you can feel it slightly hesitating when your driving. On the video you can hear it from the exhaust, it's like a spitting noise
I'm in Staffordshire.

jamesycc · Jan 12, 2017

sounds like mine did tbh. A bit rough and lumpy, more than usual and the slightest little popping sound at the exhaust. Is it quite Smokey on tick over, alot of cloud coming out the exhaust as that's what mine was like.

PP200t · Jan 12, 2017

@jamesycc Yeah now you mention it it is a little. Was yours hesitating slightly when driving and changing gear etc? It pulls fine and goes well though.

STEVE.M · Jan 12, 2017

PP172 said:
It's definately hiccuping on idle and you can feel it slightly hesitating when your driving. On the video you can hear it from the exhaust, it's like a spitting noise
I'm in Staffordshire.

They do tend to pop & bang into the exhaust on overrun when cold, especially if its stainless, and can be hesitant on cold start.
If you are convinced there is something wrong, replace the plugs as a maintenance item & try @cs_dave or @midge or @jezer101 for a set of injectors, no harm in having some spares.
If that does not cure it, a trip to Mick at Diamond Motors in Long Eaton might be on the cards.

jamesycc · Jan 12, 2017

PP172 said:
@jamesycc Yeah now you mention it it is a little. Was yours hesitating slightly when driving and changing gear etc? It pulls fine and goes well though.

At speed it wasn't too noticeable but it felt as if something was a miss. Having owned for over 2 years I know it well so knew it wasn't quite right. It would feel like it was gonna stall at stops and just felt a tiny bit hesitant when accelerating and more Smokey on start up and idle.

Rojer · Jan 12, 2017

@STEVE.M Good to see another Luton member ha, how many are there?

@PP172 i would get the injectors cleaned, group buy atm for peanuts so worth a go.

http://www.cliosport.net/threads/injector-cleaning-group-buy-mk2-0.800763/

STEVE.M · Jan 12, 2017

I`ve just realised you have only had the car for 2 weeks.
Put £20 of 98/99 Ron in it & go & use it all in one drive.
@PP172
Though probably not tonight.

Rojer · Jan 12, 2017

STEVE.M said:
I`ve just realised you have only had the car for 2 weeks.
Put £20 of 98/99 Ron in it & go & use it all in one drive.
@PP172
Though probably not tonight.

Good shout, i have only had mine 2 weeks and it was ran on a budget. I have gone through a few tanks of vpower now and runs better.

PP200t · Jan 12, 2017

STEVE.M said:
I`ve just realised you have only had the car for 2 weeks.
Put £20 of 98/99 Ron in it & go & use it all in one drive.
@PP172
Though probably not tonight.

Yeah only two weeks. Log book came in today so I might sell it and buy another one.

cs_dave · Jan 12, 2017

PP172 said:
Yeah only two weeks. Log book came in today so I might sell it and buy another one.

Price lol

STEVE.M · Jan 12, 2017

PP172 said:
Yeah only two weeks. Log book came in today so I might sell it and buy another one. :smile:

To be honest, I`d persevere with this one.
Any sub £1000 one is going to have things that need sorting.

Rojer · Jan 12, 2017

@PP172 Why do you want to sell it for lol? What colour is the smoke and is it on idle, when reving etc, how much smoke is it?

PP200t · Jan 12, 2017

Rojer said:
@PP172 Why do you want to sell it for lol? What colour is the smoke and is it on idle, when reving etc, how much smoke is it?

Thinking about it I don't think it's smoke, more steam so it's normal.

Rojer · Jan 12, 2017

@PP172 So then the first thing i would do it stick some VPower in, then check plugs, leads, coil pack and then injectors. To get the injectors cleaned in that group buy its really cheap so well worth a go.

Louis · Jan 12, 2017

The injector cleaning is worthwhile regardless, and dan would be able to tell during the pulsing of it whether it was actually dying or not. Either that or take it to a specialist and see what they have to say, but it will end up being £££ regardless.

bloke · Jan 12, 2017

you need to look at live data, see what the lambda is doing and fuel trims.

Rojer · Jan 12, 2017

Also when you say you swapped the lambda was it a new one? If not are you sure that one is working? Have you changed the switch from the other code now or has that not come back?

bloke · Jan 12, 2017

and getting the injectors cleaned is a waste of money especially as you don't even know the history of them.

Rojer · Jan 12, 2017

bloke said:
and getting the injectors cleaned is a waste of money especially as you don't even know the history of them.

I agree looking at live data is the best way forward, however for the sake of £20 or whatever it is to clean the injectors it won't do no harm.

PP200t · Jan 12, 2017

Rojer said:
Also when you say you swapped the lambda was it a new one? If not are you sure that one is working? Have you changed the switch from the other code now or has that not come back?

I swapped them front to back as the front lambda was showing an active fault on the code reader and I figured it wouldn't hurt to switch them. I wonder if the change if there was to be one would be straight away or after a while. The lambda code hasn't come back though since resetting it which is strange.
The other issue throttle switch hasn't (touch wood) shown it's ugly head since so left it with cleaning the connectors. I'm beginning to wonder if the running is normal. I've had a 182 and a 172 and can't remember them running like this but maybe they did?
It's definately not the coilpack as I've tried a working one and it was no different. Northcuploop said it wasn't a misfire but a slight judder of sorts.
When I unplug the injectors each one affects the running of the car more or less the same as each other. Leads maybe.

E11OOT · Jan 12, 2017

would the timing being out by a tooth or two be a possible cause?

STEVE.M · Jan 12, 2017

Rojer said:
@PP172 Why do you want to sell it for lol? What colour is the smoke and is it on idle, when reving etc, how much smoke is it?

Thanks for your PM Ryan.
Looked at your progress thread.
Like your attitude.
You bought a neglected 182,straight in with getting the belts,dephaser,water pump done at ED & then I`ll go from there.
None of this I think I`ll sell it on because it wants £70 spent on it.

STEVE.M · Jan 13, 2017

E11OOT said:
would the timing being out by a tooth or two be a possible cause?

This look likely, as all plugs are apparently all reading the same.
@PP172

PP200t · Jan 13, 2017

Mmm @STEVE.M that's an interesting thought and suggestion. Is that something that can be adjusted without the belts being changed? I know specialists can check it? I'll get in touch with someone and see if they can check it/adjust it if so.

STEVE.M · Jan 13, 2017

PP172 said:
Mmm @STEVE.M that's an interesting thought and suggestion. Is that something that can be adjusted without the belts being changed? I know specialists can check it? I'll get in touch with someone and see if they can check it/adjust it if so.

I`d get it over to Long Eaton.
A lot of members make a high mileage round trip as he does a proper job at a very reasonable price.

NorthloopCup · Jan 13, 2017

@PP172 i can check and adjust it. :wink:

PP200t · Jan 13, 2017

@NorthloopCup wow really?! Brilliant how this site just gets better and better. I'll be in touch mate.

NorthloopCup · Jan 13, 2017

PP172 said:
@NorthloopCup wow really?! Brilliant how this site just gets better and better. I'll be in touch mate.

I can do anything mate.

Slight misfire, no eml...

West Midlands

I Park Like a C**t

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