172 / 182 Cup Hub Carrier Differences

[CamMoreRon]

Morning chaps..

I've read that the Cup front hubs are different to the standard 172 / 182, but does anyone know about the hub carrier / upright? Are the hardpoints (i.e. BJ hole, Tie Rod hole & Strut holes) all in the same place?

It doesn't strike me as something a cheap car company would do, having unique uprights for a low-volume model, but you never know! It could have been a parts bin special from another Renault!

I'm going to start working on some geometry-correcting uprights & wishbones for my 172 Cup, but don't want to be taking bits off to measure it all as it's my daily. Would be nice if I could get a non-Cup upright off eBay as there's tonnes on there.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ph1 172 / ph2 172 / ph2 172 cup / 182 = 54mm hub spacing
trophy / 182 cup = 60mm hub spacing

The steering arm angle is also slightly different, so if you swap over you need to redo your tracking (not just a minor adjustment, I mean you will want to adjust it by eye before you even drive to a place to have tracked properly!)


TBH I see little point in trying to work on your own setup when you can just join the group buy for the rollcentre kit on here though? Unless its just because you happen to want the challenge of doing it.


This is the kit I am on about:

 

[CamMoreRon]

Thanks for the reply!

It's partly for the challenge, but mostly because I don't like balljoint extenders! The uprights were never designed to take the extra stress of having the BJ on a big lever and it's not a particularly elegant solution either. There were people doing this with 205's a while back and I seem to remember some ovalled uprights and they kind of went out of fashion. I don't know what the experience of Clio guys is as I'm a relative noob to the scene.

I've done similar for my race car build.. they're nice lightweight parts and balljoints in double-shear, so less stress on everything!

I take it by the steering arm angle there is different Ackerman % between Cup and non-Cup? That's probably not that much of an issue.. it's more that I want to know offsets etc to get everything to package properly.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yeah slight Ackerman changes.

The kit I just showed positively locates the extenders and doesn't suffer those issues but I know what you mean.

 

[bozothenutter]

Thanks for the reply!

It's partly for the challenge, but mostly because I don't like balljoint extenders! The uprights were never designed to take the extra stress of having the BJ on a big lever and it's not a particularly elegant solution either. There were people doing this with 205's a while back and I seem to remember some ovalled uprights and they kind of went out of fashion. I don't know what the experience of Clio guys is as I'm a relative noob to the scene.

I've done similar for my race car build.. they're nice lightweight parts and balljoints in double-shear, so less stress on everything!

I take it by the steering arm angle there is different Ackerman % between Cup and non-Cup? That's probably not that much of an issue.. it's more that I want to know offsets etc to get everything to package properly.

Wow that is a nice piece of work man....!
All those small bits welded up like that.....

 

[Chip-mk1]

Wow that is a nice piece of work man....!
All those small bits welded up like that.....

It certainly looks like it was a lot of work, Id be very scared of a failure though TBH

 

[CamMoreRon]

It was a lot of work!

I'm not worried about failures, though. It's been tested via FEA with a good safety factor.

The Clio uprights would be a lot simpler!

 

[CamMoreRon]

I figured I would dig this old thread up, rather than starting a new one!

I've been trawling the site this afternoon, but there seems to be a massive amount of conflicting info about all the different wheel bearing / hub / hub carrier options and the differences between them. I'm hoping someone might be able to clarify what I've found, and maybe we can make a definitive list:

172 CUP
Front Wheel Bearing:
d = 37mm, D = 72mm, w = 37mm (Same as standard 172)
Front Knuckle / Upright / Hub Carrier:
54mm bolt spacing - same as standard 172, but minus ABS
Front Hub:
4 x 100mm PCD - same as standard 172, extra track comes from wheel offset
Front Driveshaft:
Same as standard 172, but minus ABS
Front Wishbone:
Same as standard 172
Front Subframe:
Same as standard 172

182 CUP
Front Wheel Bearing:
d = 40mm, D = 84mm, w = 38mm
Front Knuckle / Upright / Hub Carrier:
60mm bolt spacing - standard 182 54mm
Front Hub:
4 x 100mm PCD - same as standard 182
Front Driveshaft:
Same as standard 182
Front Wishbone:
Same pressing as standard 182 but with different LBJ position to increase caster
Front Subframe:
Same as standard 172 / 182

And finally, the Cup race cars use Mk1 Laguna front uprights and hubs, with a wheel bearing of d = 40mm, D = 84mm, w = 39.7mm.

Hoping someone can go through that list and confirm / correct everything.

For anyone who is interested, I'm working on the revised geometry uprights now. I'll put up a project thread soon.

 

[CamMoreRon]

Also: If somebody could confirm that the CV joints on 172 and 182 Cups are the same - i.e. same spline pattern & size - that would be very helpful!

 

[Radugns]

Did you find sthing about the driveshafts? Are same on 172 and 182cup?