At TDC should all of the valves be fully closed ..... I am bit worried about manually winding the pistons into the new valves ..... The cams do not want to sit in the cam tool setting position as if the valve springs are pushing them slightly off alignment. To set the cam tool, I will need to use a spanner on both inlet and outlet at the cambelt end ..... is that normal ???
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clio 182 F4R rebuild
- Thread starter wayne_182
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- rebuild f4r 182
Bizarrely ... I could not find a false TDC when I had the head off ..... when I could clearly see the pistons at TDC TDC_setting2.jpg
PH2 172
Stop for a moment and think what you are doing before you do some damage.
At TDC on 1 & 4,all valves for those cylinders should be closed.
The inlet valves of 3 should be closing,& the exhaust valves of 2 should be opening.
Cylinders are numbered 1,2,3,4 from the gearbox end.
Somebody please confirm this.
@bloke
I was faced with this dilemna at the end of December when my engine blew. I decided to go down the route of a second hand engine instead of getting the old one rebuilt though.
Even though I shopped around, the best I could get it all done for was:
£300 (second hand good condition 172 engine off ebay incl postage to the garage)
£750 (garage fee for removing the old engine and fitting the new one, changing manifolds etc)
£350 (garage fee for new supplying and fitting new cambelt, dephaser belt and replacing fluids)
£130 (hire car for two weeks)
So it cost me an arm and a leg but I didn't want to scrap my car and at least now I have fresh belts and a service.
Even though I shopped around, the best I could get it all done for was:
£300 (second hand good condition 172 engine off ebay incl postage to the garage)
£750 (garage fee for removing the old engine and fitting the new one, changing manifolds etc)
£350 (garage fee for new supplying and fitting new cambelt, dephaser belt and replacing fluids)
£130 (hire car for two weeks)
So it cost me an arm and a leg but I didn't want to scrap my car and at least now I have fresh belts and a service.
330i. E30 Touring.
You could have got that cheaper from a few members on here i'll bet.
£750 to fit an engine being the main one. I'd have charged £250-300.
That makes sense … it means that the valves that are almost closed on 2 & 3 at bottom dead centre will be causing some resistance on the cam position so the cams are only just coming on/off those valves which is what I'm seeing …… the cam alignment tool is IN …. the TDC pin is IN
)I just need to get this crankshaft pulley off and the water pump gasket off without wrecking something …….. including my hands !!!
It's going to be a pig … and I've not even started with cam belt or aux belt tensioner …..
I considered that and did get an engine offered on here (thanks Bloke) ….. but preferred the devil I know to the one I don't….. plus half the cost is the belt kits and alignment tools that would be required anyway ……. I got my head recon done for 260 quid incl. collection service ….. after that it's parts …. and that does add up …… I've gone for the full belt kits, dephaser & water pump …… so hoping to be good for 5years!!!
PH2 172
This should take care of the crank pulley if you cannot find something locally.That makes sense … it means that the valves that are almost closed on 2 & 3 at bottom dead centre will be causing some resistance on the cam position so the cams are only just coming on/off those valves which is what I'm seeing …… the cam alignment tool is IN …. the TDC pin is IN :blush
I just need to get this crankshaft pulley off and the water pump gasket off without wrecking something …….. including my hands !!!
It's going to be a pig … and I've not even started with cam belt or aux belt tensioner …..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/46PC-HARM...494754?hash=item35f11d4822:g:Y90AAOSwT6pV7Bdd
I'll take that as a joke
… there is no way that is going to fit in the space I have and the only attachment points are 2x 2.5mm holes and 2.5mm screws are very easy to break !!! …. see TDC_setting1.jpg
PH2 172
Was not meant as a joke.
Sorry I didn`t check the bolt sizes on that kit, but the principle remains the same, that`s what those 2 threaded holes are for, though they look bigger than 2.5 mm.
For peace of mind, I`d replace it with a keyed pulley from R26? as I have no great faith in relying on the taper fit!
Actually as its had a fair clout,it may not even be postioned correctly.
I am quite amazed to hear that there is no key in that slot … seems to be the obvious thing to do …. OK so I need a puller … should not be too difficult to do when my 'mate' brings my drills back … the holes ARE 2.5mm or 3mm max!!
so limited pulling power ….. so what ….. tighten it up 'somewhat' and then hit it with a copper hammer ???
PH2 172
Wahey, end float on the crank.
tried that last night and almost snapped one of the screws off !!! ... think I need to find some stainless steel screws ....... is WD40 going to help ???
one step closer …… see attached improvised puller + a squirt of WD40 and it's off …… simple clean-up a refit to do ….. then ….
… just the old water pump gasket to deal with (get off block) and we're set for fitting the belts
Plan to attach the whole area with brake cleaner - from camshafts down to crank and the three main pulleys themselves ……
I've ordered some chemical 'decap' agent to dissolve the water pump gasket …… it's REALLY HARD and there is no really access to HACK it all off without doing something (or me) some damage…. watch this space….
I've just looked at the cambelt setting procedure (10th time) and the crankshaft pulley needs to spin freely for the initial setting of the cambelt tension ...... but only when changing the camshaft pulleys .... not sure it is essential ... but clearly it would not be possible if the crankshaft pulley was 'keyed' in place......
Can anyone advise on torque setting for the thermostat housing .... it's currently on at 12Nm ..... same as camcover ... but no idea of the correct setting ????
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
10Nm i think, but you're not far off either way.
Cheers, wish I thought to ask on here. Think my judgement was cloudy at the time as it's the first engine failure I've ever had and it was a right pain to sort out. If it ever happens again I will be in touch
Whereabouts are you based actually as I may need to get a new crankshaft pulley fitted. pm me if you like?
PH2 172
I`m no expert, but I read it as the crankshaft pulley bolt is tightened before any crankshaft rotation.
I only have these manuals.
If you have any others, please put them up.
PH2 172
(I`m no expert, but I read it as the crankshaft pulley bolt is tightened before any crankshaft rotation.)
Scratch that.
I read it from the bottom up, without realising there were 2 separate procedures.
@wayne_182
Scratch that.
I read it from the bottom up, without realising there were 2 separate procedures.
@wayne_182
There are two different procedures .... one for a simple cambelt change and another when camshaft pulleys are changed ... In the second case (my case) the cambelt is first tensioned with all pulleys loose(~1mm). The belt is tensioned and then turned WITHOUT turning the cams or crankshaft (TDC pin in place), since the pulleys are free to turn... check tension IF OK THEN tighten the crankshaft pulley up (check TDC) and move onto setting the camshafts ... check tension again!!! tighten camshaft pulleys (100 quid blocking tool) ... turn engine by hand ... check alignment is OK ... check tension again!! and you're done
at least that is how I read it .... but I'm no expert either
PH2 172
The manual could have been more helpful.
It should have been made clear that when you partially tighten the cam pulleys with the old nut & bolt, the pulleys should not grip the cams.
My initial impression was that it was to seat the cams sufficiently to turn over by hand.
I`d like to see the R26 manual, where the keyway is used, although the dephaser is different.
@wayne_182
It should have been made clear that when you partially tighten the cam pulleys with the old nut & bolt, the pulleys should not grip the cams.
My initial impression was that it was to seat the cams sufficiently to turn over by hand.
I`d like to see the R26 manual, where the keyway is used, although the dephaser is different.
@wayne_182
Agreed. what we need is a HAYNES manual ..... where someone actually DOES it .... while writing the manual ...
..... still I am happy to have some kind of manual .... thanks to this site
Agreed. what we need is a HAYNES manual ..... where someone actually DOES it .... while writing the manual ...
..... still I am happy to have some kind of manual .... thanks to this site :smile:
PH2 172
I suspect someone at Haynes read the factory manual and said sod that! :smile:
Sorry to hijack your thread, i'm in the middle of a cambelt change too. I've read the procedure about 10 times too and i can't for the love nor money find the section/paragraph where it says to remove/loosen the crankshaft pully ?
PH2 172
I think you have to rely on the illustration in 07-09 of F4R-730 PDF.
see page 11-5 ... attached here ...
The only image that shows that pulley removed is in image 15114-1R on 07-10
PH2 172
Correct image. The page number is at the top.
I think that if you use the keyway to fix the crankshaft pulley THEN ... each time you change the cambelt you will need to slacken both camshaft pulleys to allow for the minute adjustment of alignment with the crankshaft ... since it would not be possible with the crankshaft since it is keyed in a set position ...... bottom line something must be able to slip for fine adjustment of the timing, so why not everything!!!
