Change background image
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
Sponsored By:  

FAO Those With Existing Safety Devices Roll Cage, Msa Eligibilty

Discussion in 'Race/Track Car Discussion' started by Ads29, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. Ads29

    Ads29 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,099
    Location:
    The Forest, Lydney
    Car:
    Clio 172 Merc ML55
    Thank you Daniel @SafetyDevicesDaniel for all the updates and for responding personally, it is greatly appreciated.

    I'll be in touch soon regarding an exchange

    Adam
     
    SafetyDevicesDaniel likes this.
  2. loggyboy

    loggyboy ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Messages:
    2,075
    Location:
    Basingstoke
    Car:
    Arctic 182, Striker
    @SafetyDevicesDaniel does this mean there will there be some heavily discounted used cages available from you guys in a few months?!
     
    SafetyDevicesDaniel likes this.
  3. masekwm

    masekwm ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,285
    Location:
    Flitwick
    Car:
    172 Cup & 172 Turbo
    Raises hand, as someone who has no intention of competing, I'll take a piece of that scrap away from you...
     
    Martin. likes this.
  4. Marshal10

    Marshal10 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    13
    Anyone got any recommendations of who to get to fit a cage in the greater Bristol area...
     
  5. Ads29

    Ads29 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,099
    Location:
    The Forest, Lydney
    Car:
    Clio 172 Merc ML55
    I'll be going to Simpson Motorsport in Lydney @Marshal10, but then I live there anyway
     
  6. Pauleds

    Pauleds ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,305
    Location:
    North wales border
    Car:
    172 Cup Rally Car
    I bought the Safety Devices cage as I was in a car that tested one to the max when I used to codrive in the 205 Challenge..........
    678930262.jpg
    It was scrap after that
    @SafetyDevicesDaniel
     
    SafetyDevicesDaniel likes this.
  7. Ads29

    Ads29 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,099
    Location:
    The Forest, Lydney
    Car:
    Clio 172 Merc ML55
    May have ended up as scrap metal but it certainly looks to have done it's job @Pauleds
     
  8. harvsurrey

    harvsurrey ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    3,067
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    911,172 cup,s4,V60D4
  9. Pauleds

    Pauleds ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,305
    Location:
    North wales border
    Car:
    172 Cup Rally Car
    Which is what I mentioned about only having one bend on the front leg
     
  10. loggyboy

    loggyboy ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Messages:
    2,075
    Location:
    Basingstoke
    Car:
    Arctic 182, Striker
  11. harvsurrey

    harvsurrey ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    3,067
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    911,172 cup,s4,V60D4
    Proving they made a cage that should never have been passed after 2011 then
     
  12. SafetyDevicesDaniel

    SafetyDevicesDaniel

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Hi harvsurrey, The regulation change in 2011 purely related to the number of bends in a front leg, which doesn't affect the R017 cage as it complies with that wording.
    We posted the 'MSA ROPS Bulletin March 2011' on our website when it was released, and it remains today along with other current regulations. This was important at the time because with so many of our roll cages homologated, the statement at the bottom of the first page was good clarification for our customers.
     
  13. SafetyDevicesDaniel

    SafetyDevicesDaniel

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Nice to see the cockpit still so intact! Great photo
     
  14. SafetyDevicesDaniel

    SafetyDevicesDaniel

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    You're quick off the mark! I think we'll assess the situation once we have an idea of cage numbers
     
  15. harvsurrey

    harvsurrey ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    3,067
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    911,172 cup,s4,V60D4
    you are correct and my appologies , as it does look as if your cage complies with that update.

    In fact that update my be responsible for the issue now faced by revised designs
     
    SafetyDevicesDaniel likes this.
  16. BlackGoldMatt

    BlackGoldMatt ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    458
    Location:
    Salisbury
    Car:
    E46 M3, Clio 182
    I would also be interested in a used non-MSA compliant cage. Keep us updated please!
    Matt
     
    SafetyDevicesDaniel likes this.
  17. Hyperhatch

    Hyperhatch ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Messages:
    62
    Car:
    182
    Hi
    I've just picked up my car with the new R022 cage from Safety Devices. I believe this is the first customer car to have it fitted. Here are some photos for those who are interested. I'm very happy with the cage. It should look better when I get time to paint and smarten up the interior! The service from Mark Fish was excellent.

    Cheers Chris
    Cage 1.JPG Cage 2.JPG Cage 3.JPG Cage 4.JPG Cage 5.JPG Cage 6.JPG Cage 7.JPG Cage 10.JPG Cage 11.JPG


    Cage 7.JPG

    Cage 10.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  18. Digger90

    Digger90 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    West Sussex
    Car:
    172 Track Toy
    Looks great.

    But why is the harness bar so low.... proper fitting is to have it level with the harness holes in the seat.
     
  19. AdamCup

    AdamCup ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    166
    Location:
    West Sussex
    Car:
    182 FF Cup Track Car
    It can be level or max 20 degrees downwards angle.
     
  20. shiftspark

    shiftspark ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,938
    Location:
    Manchester
    Car:
    GT86,172 Cup
    It's difficult to see from the pictures but I dolbt it's more than 20 degrees. Perhaps would be easier to see with a harness in.
     
  21. Fraser.J.

    Fraser.J. ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,998
    Location:
    Fife, Scotland
    Car:
    Caddy, Ph1, R27
    Difficult to achieve if people have seats at different heights. Lower the better in my opinion as my seats are very low.
     
  22. Fraser.J.

    Fraser.J. ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,998
    Location:
    Fife, Scotland
    Car:
    Caddy, Ph1, R27
    Cage looks great. Did you have the previous cage?

    I'm down for an exchange, my old cage is being collected tomorrow.

    Can you get some photos of the top dash showing how it was cut for the cage?
     
  23. Hyperhatch

    Hyperhatch ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Messages:
    62
    Car:
    182
    Harnes is only in temporary. Also the seats can still go down another 10mm (which it will when I use it).

    IMG_0137.JPG

    IMG_0138.JPG
     
    AdamCup likes this.
  24. shiftspark

    shiftspark ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,938
    Location:
    Manchester
    Car:
    GT86,172 Cup
    Looks fine to me.
     
  25. Hyperhatch

    Hyperhatch ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Messages:
    62
    Car:
    182
    No my car didn't have a cage in it before (there is a build thread in the project section).

    Some photos of the dash......

    IMG_0126.JPG IMG_0127.JPG IMG_0129.JPG IMG_0116.JPG IMG_0117.JPG IMG_0118.JPG
     
  26. Pauleds

    Pauleds ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,305
    Location:
    North wales border
    Car:
    172 Cup Rally Car
    My only potential issue looking at those pics is the harnesses to the bar not being able to taper in towards each other.
    Where they are fitted onto the bar in the pic, the rear diagonal cuts across it and stops them being closer together which is required now with the use of hans devices.20160611_205406.jpg
    I would prefer the harness bars where the harnesses are fitted to be unobstructed by another bar like on the original cage.
    @SafetyDevicesDaniel
     
  27. DCELEC 182

    DCELEC 182

    Joined:
    May 11, 2015
    Messages:
    189
    Car:
    Clio 182
    Looks quite different design wise to the old model, not sure I like that it still incorporates the dash dodging design though.....wonder why that's necessary? Is there no box section for the feet to sit on now too?
    Either way, nicely put together bolt in cage to be fair!
     
  28. Martin.

    Martin. ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    6,427
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    Track 182
    Is that a joke ?
     
  29. Martin.

    Martin. ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    6,427
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    Track 182
    Cage looks bloody great to be fair. Does the glove box still open properly?
     
  30. DCELEC 182

    DCELEC 182

    Joined:
    May 11, 2015
    Messages:
    189
    Car:
    Clio 182
    No, why?
     
  31. loggyboy

    loggyboy ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Messages:
    2,075
    Location:
    Basingstoke
    Car:
    Arctic 182, Striker
     
  32. DCELEC 182

    DCELEC 182

    Joined:
    May 11, 2015
    Messages:
    189
    Car:
    Clio 182
    Thanks for the constructive reply mate, I looked back through and realised you'd asked that already now...my mistake! Just not seen others designed like that, and as safety devices say not strictly necessary at the moment but good practise.
    May look at swapping mine over for the new design next winter, will incur a fair amount of fitting costs again sadly!
     
  33. Hyperhatch

    Hyperhatch ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Messages:
    62
    Car:
    182
    Yes but it has been cut slightly on the left hand side. It's minor but hard to see in the photo.IMG_0128.JPGIMG_0129.JPG
     
    Martin. likes this.
  34. quiksilver.cm

    quiksilver.cm ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    north east
    Car:
    A4 black edition
    Hyperhatch has the steering column support bar been cut to fit the front drivers side 'a' pillar leg?
    From your pic it looks like it's been cut.

    In the second pic you can see which bar I mean
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
  35. Digger90

    Digger90 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    West Sussex
    Car:
    172 Track Toy


    Read this: http://www.msar.co.uk/pdf/UsersGuideRacingHarness.pdf

    Harness mounting bar is far from ideal, it's much too far back, introducing extra elongation in the event of a frontal impact (it would be better to be mounted straight from the main hoop). Plus, as Pauleds states, the design looks like it inhibits harness cross-over as the diagonal intersects the harness bar very widely.

    That aspect could have been thought out better given the amount of time/effort that's gone into designing it.

    Nice cage otherwise though - I like the front section with the extra legs through the dash and the treatment of the door cross braces looks both neat and effective.
     
    quiksilver.cm likes this.
  36. quiksilver.cm

    quiksilver.cm ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    north east
    Car:
    A4 black edition
    If you look at the pic on safety devices website of the unpainted cage, the rear double cross and harness bar are totally different. It actually looks correct in this pic
     

    Attached Files:

  37. massivewangers

    massivewangers ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages:
    1,160
    Location:
    Norfolk/Essex
    Car:
    Several
    If the harness bar was in the main hoop, might this restrict seat mounting I wonder? Obviously the Clio is a pretty small car, so I wonder if a harness bar might limit how far back the seats could be mounted? Can't think what it would be like off-hand.
     
  38. Pauleds

    Pauleds ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,305
    Location:
    North wales border
    Car:
    172 Cup Rally Car
    Yes I would definitely prefer the harness bars to be like this cage, which is pretty much like my photo.
    Could SD check to see why there are differences between the test cage and the one in Hyperhatch car @SafetyDevicesDaniel
     
  39. AdamCup

    AdamCup ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    166
    Location:
    West Sussex
    Car:
    182 FF Cup Track Car
    @markfishy installed the cage, perhaps he can provide more info ?
     
  40. SafetyDevicesDaniel

    SafetyDevicesDaniel

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Hi All,

    Thanks for the feedback, always useful. Nice to hear about the excellent service from Mark Fish too!
    It seems there are a few similar comments regarding harness bar, so I'll try to clarify.

    Given this is a production roll cage which must fit a range of drivers and seat types, we have to err on the side of caution to ensure we are compliant. That means we place the harness bar in the backstay assembly rather than the main hoop, to provide clearance for taller drivers.

    Although it is allowable to have harnesses up to 10 degrees above horizontal, this is not recommended for Frontal Head Restraints (FHR's) such as HANS. It is recommended that harnesses are angled between 0 and -20 degrees for FHR’s, with a maximum of -45 degrees allowable.

    Obviously the angle of the harnesses will change depending upon how far forward or rearward the seat is positioned, as well as the height off the floor pan. So for shorter drivers with seats mounted as low as possible, the angle will be near 0 degrees. However, for taller drivers the angle will be nearer 20 degrees or greater. We have tried to position the harness bars in the best position for everyone.

    With regards to the dash bar, the tube is not cut. We cut one small tab to allow the clearance required, which I will post a photo of later today or tomorrow.

    Thanks

    Daniel
     
    shiftspark likes this.

  • Share This Page