Martin's Track Clio 182 Project Thread

[Martin.]

I've had a lot of help this weekend from generous friends. @GrahamS came down on Saturday and we spent the entire day in the sun doing jobs on our cars. Graham and @AlexW also came down Sunday morning to try and get to the bottom of my issues.

Long story short and after lots of checks and tests. The car seems to have a really weak spark. Which means some of the fuel isn't burning, going through the exhaust and popping, which fails the noise test. Extremely sooty plugs show this. Why it has a weak spark we don't know.

Graham and Alex were looking at the OMEX live data and the AFR on a wideband. Everything looks ok but for some reason the car runs really rich on idle and when holding the throttle stable. Sometimes even as low as 9 I think. When progressing through the revs, or going flat out it is perfectly fine.

We've stuck my new plugs in for now. It seems to run a lot lot better now. Hopefully enough to get it through the Bedford noise test on Saturday. These plugs will end up getting very sooty though in the end. So the actual problem is still under investigation.

Thanks very much for your help lads!

My plugs:

My plug next to Graham's plug as a comparison. Lean vs rich 😂

Computer says no:

Mr White having a coke break.

 

[GrahamS]

I like the post but dislike the problem. My face totally describes my confusion of the problem.
Cheers for the help on my car blud!

 

[Martin.]

I took the car to Bedford on Saturday (20th) for a track day I had booked ages ago. We were hoping the car might scrape past the static noise test with some new plugs and then I'd be able to enjoy the day. But unfortunately it didn't go to plan and the Clio was back on the trailer by lunch time.

We arrived in the morning, offloaded the car, sat through the briefing and then went to do a late noise test. He didn't even test me, he recognised me and the car from before and just stuck a sticker on. What a result that felt like. However the car cut out and died on the first corner of the sighting lap :disrelieved: embarrassingly I had to be towed back.

Thankfully Graham and Alex were there too so they came to investigate. After a few checks we realised the HT leads were arking, so we changed them over and it felt a lot better. The plugs had started to become less sooty too. I took the car for a test drive up the road and it felt a LOT better.

So all three of us lined up in our cars and went back on track. :car: Unfortunately mine died again within a few corners. I managed to jump start it whilst it was still rolling and carried on around the lap. It kept cutting out and I kept having to jump start it with lots of revs. I came back into the pits, we checked a few things over again and all seemed OK, so Alex took it for a test up and down the road. It felt a little lumpy but generally OK.

Alex took it on track this time, flat out around the first right hander and all was fine, sweet. Or not! We get to the next slow left hander and it dies again. We end up cutting out and coming to a stop on the back straight with cars flying past us lap after lap, which was very nerve-racking. Definitely no yellow flags to be seen! Alex eventually gets it started and we painfully get it back to the pits :weary:

We've narrowed it down to when the issue happens. Left hand corners, when there is any lean in the car, it just dies. Right hand corners seem fine, and flat out in a straight line is fine. (AFR is fine when WOT too). It feels like fuel starvation, but I had a full tank. Alex took the fuel pump out to see if anything looked obvious. But it was very clean and all looked OK (only 44k miles on the car). We were lost for ideas so I called it a day for Coptood and let Sash use my track slot in her Meg.

The car will be going to Engine Dynamics in the next couple of weeks for more investigation.

If anyone reading this has any ideas then please let me know before I end up burning the c**t lol! :innocent:

@NorthloopCup you heard anything like this before mate?

 

[NorthloopCup]

I took the car to Bedford on Saturday (20th) for a track day I had booked ages ago. We were hoping the car might scrape past the static noise test with some new plugs and then I'd be able to enjoy the day. But unfortunately it didn't go to plan and the Clio was back on the trailer by lunch time.

We arrived in the morning, offloaded the car, sat through the briefing and then went to do a late noise test. He didn't even test me, he recognised me and the car from before and just stuck a sticker on. What a result that felt like. However the car cut out and died on the first corner of the sighting lap :disrelieved: embarrassingly I had to be towed back.

Thankfully Graham and Alex were there too so they came to investigate. After a few checks we realised the HT leads were arking, so we changed them over and it felt a lot better. The plugs had started to become less sooty too. I took the car for a test drive up the road and it felt a LOT better.

So all three of us lined up in our cars and went back on track. :car: Unfortunately mine died again within a few corners. I managed to jump start it whilst it was still rolling and carried on around the lap. It kept cutting out and I kept having to jump start it with lots of revs. I came back into the pits, we checked a few things over again and all seemed OK, so Alex took it for a test up and down the road. It felt a little lumpy but generally OK.

Alex took it on track this time, flat out around the first right hander and all was fine, sweet. Or not! We get to the next slow left hander and it dies again. We end up cutting out and coming to a stop on the back straight with cars flying past us lap after lap, which was very nerve-racking. Definitely no yellow flags to be seen! Alex eventually gets it started and we painfully get it back to the pits :weary:

We've narrowed it down to when the issue happens. Left hand corners, when there is any lean in the car, it just dies. Right hand corners seem fine, and flat out in a straight line is fine. (AFR is fine when WOT too). It feels like fuel starvation, but I had a full tank. Alex took the fuel pump out to see if anything looked obvious. But it was very clean and all looked OK (only 44k miles on the car). We were lost for ideas so I called it a day for Coptood and let Sash use my track slot in her Meg.

The car will be going to Engine Dynamics in the next couple of weeks for more investigation.

If anyone reading this has any ideas then please let me know before I end up burning the c**t lol! :innocent:

@NorthloopCup you heard anything like this before mate?

You need to be checking the voltage going to pump and also the fuel pressure. I can't remember if they're 3bar or 3.5bar static tbh, but without those 2 readings you'll be clutching at straws until you find something.

 

[Martin.]

You need to be checking the voltage going to pump and also the fuel pressure. I can't remember if they're 3bar or 3.5bar static tbh, but without those 2 readings you'll be clutching at straws until you find something.

Thanks for the suggestion chap, I'll get it checked out.

 

[GrahamS]

Was a bit of a bummer to start the day that's for sure. We'll get to the bottom of it!

You need to be checking the voltage going to pump and also the fuel pressure. I can't remember if they're 3bar or 3.5bar static tbh, but without those 2 readings you'll be clutching at straws until you find something.

How would you check the fuel pressure Mark? With the ph2 lines it's a bit more difficult in my head.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Was a bit of a bummer to start the day that's for sure. We'll get to the bottom of it!


How would you check the fuel pressure Mark? With the ph2 lines it's a bit more difficult in my head.

You would need an inline gauge to measure the pressure mate.

 

[Martin.]

Whilst the car sits unusable until I work out a plan for it around work, I thought I'd spend some time tidying up the oil cooler cover plate I had made. Once I have my oil temp gauge wired in I can use this plate if the oil is getting too cool, potentially on winter track days.

I will also be looking at getting some kind of thin wire mesh to go behind the bumper grills, to help protect the cooler from stones or debris.

 

[Tony Hunter]

I got my mesh from Halfords, one sheet did all my front bumper grills.

 

[Martin.]

I got my mesh from Halfords, one sheet did all my front bumper grills.

Sweet that's handy, there's one just down the road from me. Cheers T

 

[M.C..]

I keep meaning to put mesh behind the grill, like the plate but that will be stopping a lot of air flow to the radiator as well.

 

[Martin.]

I keep meaning to put mesh behind the grill, like the plate but that will be stopping a lot of air flow to the radiator as well.

Yeah it will. Thankfully there's a lot of rad on show above the crash bar too though. It's quite a nice sized rad.

It will probably only be used on very cold winter track days, and also only when I've got the oil temp gauge wired in so I can monitor the operating temperature.

 

[Martin.]

I took Coptood to Brands Hatch yesterday. I was a little bit nervous about passing the noise test as it was the first time trying since the previous issues, but all was good, 85db static.

It was a great day, the weather stayed cool and dry. There was a lot of lovely Porsches (originally a Porsche only track day) and a couple of impressive race cars.

The Clio performed very well though and I had some great bumper to bumper battles with a couple of Porsches. They were probably shitting themselves at the thought of a Renault banger being 1m from their rear bumper..

The car still has some kind of limiter issue though. It won't rev past 6500 at all. Initially thought it could be a standard ECU cold limiter, but it continued to be there all day. So I'll have to look into this and speak to Engine Dynamics again. Short shifting didn't put too much of a downer on the day though.

The old man has started to learn the correct lines at Brands too, so he was the fastest he's ever been around there and had a great time.

On the last session of the day I heard a weird noise from the engine bay and then under the car. It sounded like something had fallen off, so I carried on around the lap very slowly and saw my oil filler cap sitting there on the track 😂😂 I came back in to be greeted with this mess! Some prick (me) had somehow forgotten to put it back on after topping up the oil, but thankfully I heard it and didn't start a hard 20 minute session. That could have been a disaster!

After a brief clean up the car went back on the trailer and we headed home. Videos to come shortly, if they're any good, once I've seen and edited them.

 

[CallyTeee]

Any more issues with it cutting out? I've done a track day since changing the relays and it didn't come back.

....all be it I only got 7laps n blew the gearbox :smile:

 

[Martin.]

Any more issues with it cutting out? I've done a track day since changing the relays and it didn't come back.

....all be it I only got 7laps n blew the gearbox :smile:

No issues at all with that mate thankfully. Engine Dynamics found the issue and sorted it nicely. Previous 'specialist' left a bundle of unused OMEX wires curled up with uncovered ends.

Gripper time for you then?

 

[CallyTeee]

Gripper time for you then?

Haha everyone has said that, did think about it but couldn't justify the cost at the moment. Not competing, more just for fun.

 

[Martin.]

I managed to find some time to get one of my Brands Hatch videos done. Only two from the entire day are worth watching though, so I won't bother with the others.

Random rev limit issue at 6500 though. As shown at 5:35 and 9:42.

This footage is from the first session of the day:

 

[william...]

Hi Martin,

great car with good stuff! Wunderfull Project at all!

Greetings

Where the hell is the Sound from your PMS Shifter! Cant hear it!

 

[imprezaworks]

That goes great

 

[Martin.]

Where the hell is the Sound from your PMS Shifter! Cant hear it!

What sound?

It does sound 'clunky' at low speeds, but you'll never hear that over engine and wind/road noise.

 

[william...]

my Gear Linkage Kit is vibrating/ringing at higher rpm's.

At lower Speed nothing

 

[Tony Hunter]

Martin.

Stop feeding the steering wheel through your hands, and sit a little closer.

 

[Martin.]

Martin.

Stop feeding the steering wheel through your hands, and sit a little closer. :wink:

I can't really go any closer, my legs are too long.

I'll try and stop feeding the wheel though, cheers Mr T

 

[Tony Hunter]

You are reaching a little too much for the wheel, maybe a spacer to bring the wheel closer to you then, makes it a lot easier.

 

[Martin.]

That could be a good idea actually.

 

[Martin.]

Another video, this time from my second session of the day. The morning dampness had dried up by now giving more confidence through the corners.

 

[Martin.]

I've had very little motivation to go outside to the car with the cold wet weather recently. Although the other weekend Graham and I did manage to finally get my oil gauge in. We did a lovely job of it if I do say so myself. It looks properly OEM with conduit protecting the wires from under the dash right to the oil filter. Big thanks to G as always @GrahamS

So of course I had to test it. And interestingly the oil temp will not go above 80 degrees in this weather. Even when it gets there it drops off pretty quick when you drive normally! I then put my cooler cover on to test the oil temp again and it reached 100 pretty easily. So it looks like I'll be keeping the cooler cover on throughout winter just in case I drive the car, and I'll only take it off on a track day once I've done my warm up laps.

The oil line we made to remote mount the pressure sensor. Thanks for the advice and help with it all @NorthloopCup and @M.C..

The oil pressure sensor itself

I also gave the bay a quick clean up from the oil explosion at Brands and fitted the new oil filler cap.

I also fitted a stalk blank, which makes it a lot tidier. Every little helps as they say.

 

[NorthloopCup]

You're welcome mate.

 

[Martin.]

Another short video from Brands. Having a little bit of fun with a 911 CS.

 

[GrahamS]

You forgot the staple trick!
We de-pinned the SPA plug using staples so we didn't have to cut a huge hole in the bulkhead. That is all.

 

[Matt@codered]

Cracking little car that one, gets better and better.

 

[Martin.]

Cracking little car that one, gets better and better.

Haha cheers Matt. Do you remember it still then :tongueout:

Hope you and the family are well and enjoying sunny France.

 

[Martin.]

A couple of photos from the MSVT Photography sale..

 

[masekwm]

Cool pictures, Brands looks massive compared to the car!

 

[Martin.]

Cool pictures, Brands looks massive compared to the car!

Have you never done it before mate?? If not you should get yourself down here. I absolutely love Brands, it's a small circuit but it's so so much better than Bedford for example.

 

[masekwm]

That'd involve the M25 though and I hate the M25

 

[Coops Mk1]

great write up @Martin. love the progress of the thread

I need to do brands, and you needs to (I mean NEEEED to) do Cadwell

 

[Martin.]

great write up @Martin. love the progress of the thread

I need to do brands, and you needs to (I mean NEEEED to) do Cadwell

The thread has been as work in progress as much as the car haha!

I would love to do Cadwell. I will do at some point. When the time is right with work, friends and the weather!

 

[GrahamS]

YES! Do it, I'm coming.

 

[GrahamS]

YES! Do it, I'm coming.