peeps with bb cams & head work

[damo16v]

went to bb performance today to drop my mates clio 16v off,hes having the head/cams/chip package,with power boost valve and decat.

hes already got a pipercross IK and a magnex backbox

the car is N reg and has average mileage

if anyone has had this done wot sort of power gain is he looking at?

damo

 

[bondy]

dont get your hopes up i rekon if he has a strong engine maybe 155 at the fly

 

[damo16v]

yeah its gona cost him like £16-1700 i think that its not worth it really as he might have to put a new gearbox in it soon so he gona spend sh*tloads on it!

will he notice the difference?

 

[bondy]

yeah it will be noticable but like you say lots of money coz i got my parts cheap and done it all my self the ful conversion only cost me about £ 600 - 700 fitted which aint bad if he wants the parts i can supply them mail me

 

[wongy008]

think bb garantee a 20bhp hike

he will notcie a difference

if he thinks his valver is quick now he will be suprised,.

it actually should be how the valver should of been all along

more torque and quicker i n gear

 

[ChavyBoy]

Yerr I too recon about 150-155bhp at the crank.

 

[bondy]

you should get at least 150 probaly more but be warned you will still get beaten by standard valvers trust me ask chavvy boy

 

[Paul16V]

may as well stick a 2 litre in. Cheaper in the long run for def.

 

[marc_cowley]

should have 2 litre and bb conversion thing!!

 

[cse]

ive had the same package from BB and the rolling road measured 158bhp corrected, and torque i think is around 135lb at 6800, would say for defo but cant find my rolling road graph, think it was a 20 bhp increase and a 12lb increase at the wheels

 

[ak16v]

faster then standerd Willy then

Cant you bore out a 1.8 to a 2.0?

 

[lee922]

i was looking at the conversion in the new year, by then i will have the money..

is it really worth it or not, car has had engine rebuilt , compression must be up cos the heads been skimmed , running single piece exhaust from manifold to back box and piper x air filter.. Running at 146.9 at fly and 126lb torque

the engine seems to have been rebuilt well any veiws on cams making a big difference ??

 

[damo16v]

ok update the boy i mentioned has just brought a willy lump for £1000 and hes having that fitted at bb instead i think hes gona have a few bits done to it the bloke at bb told him theyve never had a willy up there RR UNDER 155BHP @flywheel

hell notice the difference now!

 

[Chris_H]

a grand! ROFL if he went to renault with an extra 700 quid he would have got a brand new lump with camblet, plugs and filter! lol muppet.

Never had a willy less than 155bhp @ the flywheel, well they wouldnt have would they. Deary me, this forum amuses me greatly.

 

[damo16v]

chris H if you havnt got anything good to say fuk off!

all you do is sl*gg people off,why?

tw*t.

 

[Chris_H]

because fools like yourself are the jesters that are bred to amuse the likes of myself thats why.

Now say something funny, go on you know you want to...

 

[wongy008]

who thinks chris_h

is making a arse of himself.

i DO

lol

go on amuse me!!!! u kn ow u want to

 

[Chris_H]

Erm I cant amuse you like the others on here, I mean how much does the tw*t tatoo you get put on your foreheads cost?

A grand for a cack engine, 2100 for a clio, 5 grand for a williams! lol

Ahh its you lot that give me a smile everyday, bless you all.

 

[ak16v]

LOL , Im staying out of this one *hehehe* but please carry on

 

[wongy008]

hmmmmmmm

lets forget the banter for a moment

define cack engine for a moment, what constitues as a cack engine, i would say its far from cack, a good N/A engine thats keen to rev and got grunt and power, with much better scope for further tunning

i dont see why u would say its cack

now im all for people with other cars coming on this forum but if ur here to just wind up people why dont u just f**k off

ur car is a saab 9000 right, let alone cack engine( it has) its a cack car

how much u pay for that thing u call a decent car, hmmmm go back to the saab9000 owners club

waiting patiently for ya reply, now im not one to hurl abuse at ppl but if ya here to just wind people up ill happily return the favour

 

[Chris_H]

a cack engine is anything with an overly long stroke like the williams and very limited tuning potential. The F7P is a superior engine in both regards.

In fact a ford CVH is a superior engine in these respect.

The williams engine is a nice little road engine for a road car thats never going to do much else apart from ponce about in safeways car park with the rest of the clios.

One of my cars is a Saab 9000 yes, I decided I needed another toy, so I paid 25 quid for a 19 grand car. The 9000 is far from cack and the engine is vastly superior to anything renault have released in the last decade. I could explain why but theres no point is there.

The saab 9000 owners club, hmm. I think jealousy is creeping in cos pretty much any 9000 will beat your little clio your trying to sell.

Also you may define my cars as cack cars but I pretty much believe that I have owned cars many of the users of this forum could only dream of, from RS500 to Jaguar XJ40.

 

[Ray1916V]

hmmm i gota say, 1k is way too much for a wiliams lump. 400, maybe 500 at the most for a low miler in good condition, high compression etc.

but end of the day, hes bought it, so enjoy the 2.0 toque, so much nicer than the 1.8 engine.

id never go back, kinda like driving a non power steering car then goin to one thats got it, u just dont wanna go back lol.

personally i think the 2.0 bottom end is just dandy, my car flys heh.

adams_16v will tell ya

 

[Chris_H]

how has it settled in ray? Is the mapping still ok on it?

 

[Ray1916V]

nah mate, the idle still sounds like its got wild cams in.....all over the shop.

but them denso idriniwotsits did the trick on the dodgy fire up, heh old plugs were worn down to less than 1mm.

ive given up on the idle with velos tho, they say theres nothing they can do cos they dont actually alter the idle, but to me, it sounds like its being starved on idle, maybe a hint of det too, god knows.
anyway taking it up to nobles in a few weeks, get it on their rollers and lappy, if they cant do it, then ill have to give up and live with it. heh i know its that unichip tho.

gave it a mint engine flush too other day, new 5/50 oil, lol was black when the old lot came out, so much crap.
compression tested it too, 16 psi in all cylinders, with the 2nd reading of 225, 228, 229 and 230...cant remember the metre its guaged in but im sure u will.

good engine there man, and mint power too for just a 2.0 end n decat.

Ray

 

[Chris_H]

hm the idle should be able to be sorted. You have checked the ICV etc, as this is still being used. Check for air leaks and the usual.

No point in having it running lean.

The car was sitting for a while wasnt it so the oil was bound to be a bit tired.

I assume you mean 160 PSI for the 1st reading? The other readings sound rather high, but they are all within tolernce so thats something.

You had the injectors cleaned? Properly I mean.

 

[wongy008]

chris_h

now were talking,

logical discussion instead of tw*t this tw*t that

ok u say the will has a long crank. u sure u know what ur one about,if anything it has a overly short crank taken from a 1.9 diesel clio. it the valver that has the long crank. enabling it to rev to beyond 7.6k

and how can u say the ford CVH engine is superior, im not even sure where to start on this engine,

hmm 9000 having a superior engine eh go on try to explain that one,im not even sure where ur going with it, power wise im sure reno have a engine somewhere thats more powerful then in your saaba and tuneability nothing even compares with the 1.4 pushrod engine in the 5

"The williams engine is a nice little road engine for a road car thats never going to do much else apart from ponce about in safeways car park with the rest of the clios"

this statement alone makes u almost clueless about performance hot hatches

and me jealous of your £25 saab

FECK OFF WILL YA



ok ur saab maybe faster but thats about it, and look at it???

its a saab for christ sake, ppl who buy saabs cant afford BM and Mercs but still think there in a presteige car

 

[wongy008]

oh get back too topic

£1000 for a bottom is a bit steep but if the owner is willing to pay then its up to them

personally £700 is max for a decnt engine with books

 

[Ray1916V]

well thing is, if u fit the blanking chip in, (takes 2 mins) it doesnt do it, or does it ever so slight, but nothing like when the uni is in, engine wobbles ALOT, gearstick, and sometimes drops from 900 to 8, then 7 and stalls. but thats only happened 3 times so far, maybe 4.

heh well, i put all new oil in when i put the lump in, but its not been changed since then, which is between 3-5k, so definatly in need of a change heh, plus the oil pressure guage works now too, must have been clogged with all the sh*te

hmmm maybe the 3 figure is the psi then, i really cant remember and was first time i did a compression test.

but they were 225, 228, 229 and 230.

all right at the very top of the green area on the guage. i keep forgettin to ask jimbo what was the readings.

no never had the injectors cleaned since ive had the lump, and not done ISCV either. but i cant see how it wud be the ISCV cos it dont do it with the blanking chip in (which reverts it to oe settings) or does it ever so slight.

Ray

 

[Chris_H]

well you are mistaken Wongy, the diesel/williams crank has a longer stroke than the 1.8.

The 1.8 runs 82mm bore and 83.5 stroke. This gives a displacment of 1764ccs.

The 2 litre runs 82.7 bore and 93mm stroke. This means the piston speed is stupidly high.

So the simpel fact is the 2 litre cannot rev as freely or as highly as the 1.8.

The diesel engine also was a development for the 19 which was years before the clio, developed in the mid 80s.

I said the cvh was a superior engine in the tuning area and the fact it can rev if needs be. The simple fact is its a ford. Everybody has one thus you can go and get cvh stuff from asda. It may not be the better engien but its a better engien for tunign due to the fact its been developed a lot more than the renault lumps.

Saab lump, the saab runs a 90mm bore and a 77mm stroke. This is the same stroke as the energy 1.4 engine. This means piston speed wise the engine is safe to 8krpm as standard. The fact the engine is oversquare means there is ample room for large valve areas. Valve size is all that really limits power.

The main prob with the saab engine as in my car apart from its lacking a turbo and an automatic is the fact its limited to 5500rpm. Its running bosch LH jetronic, an early and not very good EFI set up. It displaces 1985cc but only puts out 135bhp, its as stressed as a budha as standard.

The turbo versions put out more and the engines as standard in turbo form can handle 500bhp runnign standard management, Trionic is that good.

Also I prefer saabs to BMs, I have owned a bm 6 series (nice I suppose) but the Saab is a far more unique car. The 9000 was the best car they did, the 9-3 and the 9-5 are not as good nor is the 900. The 9000 is also a very good handlign car, i was quuite surprised at how well it handled.

 

[Chris_H]

so the ICV has been removed and a blanking plug fitted?

It should still run the ICV with the unichip.

With the ICV dissabled the engine should revert to base idle which is about 800rpm. The screw on the top of the tb alters this btw.

Have a look at it mate.

Also get the injectors cleaned and checked. They will be down on flow and uneven I woudl bet. From the fasctory the flow rates have a silly tolerence, +-3% which is 6% overall. thats a big variation when you are squirting in fuel in milli seconds.

 

[Ray1916V]

nah, nothing has been touched on the ICV, the unichip is seperate piggy back as u well know. anyway the blanking chip refers to that, to simply cut the chip out, all i have to do is disconnect the main plug to the brain and fit the blanking chip in its place, this reverts the car to oe ECU settings.
soz if i wernt clear, and sorry to whomevers thread this is for hijacking it lol.

ill have a look at the jectors too mate, and i need to get some more carb cleaner to do the ICV

Ray

 

[Chris_H]

yeah I know its a piggy back but it shoudl be runnign along with the stock chip to retain ICV control etc. They are tricky to instal on new cars due to ac cutting in and so on. And PS, although your car doesnt have the PS switch!

What to do is start it and take the plug off the ICV, if the idle changes at all then you knwo its being used.

If not it should be removed as it can open itself up allowing a nice air leak.

 

[bondy]

chris i think your amusing lots of people on here and just think we nearly all own clios so i think your the one who should have and probaly has got c**t written rite across your forehead happy motoring in you heap of sh*t

 

[Chris_H]

a well thought out and intelligent retort there Bondy.

You should have at least dragged it out a bit before reffering to me as a tw*t.

If being a tw*t means not grabbing ones ankles and letting the dealers etc running a train on oneself then yes I am a tw*t.

 

[Ray1916V]

it is running with the stock ecu and icv mate, well hp chip anyway.

i know for a fact the icv aint been touched whatsoever. but ill have a go, might just need cleaning.

velos also sdaid to me it might be the lambda sensor too, but i really cant see how it could be anything other than the unichip cos u blank it off and it doesnt do it lol

thats my point, i know its the UC. see what nobles do to it anyway, i cant just see why they dont up the fueling on idle, thats what it seems like to me.

anyway, game on with the arguing!!!!!!!

Ray

 

[james1288]

kris you know wayyyy too much mate!

 

[markknightpz]

bondy, im afraid your the one thats embarasing yourself. Ive got a clio and I must admit I think theyre great cars but, Chris H knows too much and whatever he has to say about anything car related, hes right no matter what. Ask anyone on the RSC and they will tell you he is GOD of Renaults! Mark

p.s. that last reply was terrible, youll have to do better than that!

p.p.s. You dont want to meet Chris H

p.p.p.s. tw*t

 

[Ray1916V]

lol oh i dont know about that, ill disagree with chris on tons of stuff........

he does know alot, even as much to say too much to be healthy, and alot about loadsa different motors granted, but he is wrong some of the time, and just like many tuners his way ent always the right way.

and if hes truely worthy of his knowledge then hell agree on that!!!!!!

ppl have different ways of doin stuff, its gona happen, always gona be some sort of discrepency to that. but real internal workings etc etc chris knows his stuff man.

to point out something i dont agree with him on, is the 1.8 over 2.0 thing, chris says 1.8 is far superior, i dont agree, i think 2.0 is the beter way to go on a road car. 1.8 on track car and touring maybe cos of the hjigher revs etc.

but on a road car, 2.0 bags of torque, u dont need to go above 7k, the 2.0 rules on the road. the 1.8 needs alot of work to get it real nippy, its just not fast in oe trim. the 2.0 equals and betters the 1.8 tuned power with ease
u only hjave to look at what adams 16v has spent on his lump compared to mine.
i drove the 1.8 the other day for the first time in ages, and it wasnt what i remembered, that also had fast road cams and a minor gasflowed head, it really wasnt anything like the 2.0.

heh anyway ill ramble all day about this but just the same way u speak to nick @ HP about tuning, ur not gona get the same tuning consistancy from say bb or ktec.....different ppl to diffweren tthings

but u cant deny chris knows his sh*t...cos he does.

Ray

 

[damo16v]

the willy engine my mate brought was off ebay the seller was paul mitchell (infinicar) it was out of a willy 3 and had 65k on it with full service history with stamped book and ecu and loom included.

sounded abit high to me when he told me today but 1. hes brought it now so its abit late 2. it aint my £ so i dont care

 

[Matbrown]

The trouble is you cant have a conversation with someone who knows everything and is always right!
Which rather defies the point of a Discussion Forum.



Mat.