Clio 182 Turbo

Euan Baguette · Feb 3, 2021

Looks likes moisture getting into the connector on the end of the lead and the plugs. There shouldn’t be any rust at all!

Not read the thread but can you move the misfire between cylinders?

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Yarp · Feb 3, 2021

Euan Baguette said:
Looks likes moisture getting into the connector on the end of the lead and the plugs. There shouldn’t be any rust at all!

Not read the thread but can you move the misfire between cylinders?

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yep, the new leads should hopefully sort that. These ones are genuine so should seal properly. Also suppose with it not running often the moisture that has got in has just sat there and rusted them instead of burning off when it gets hot.

I can’t move the miss cos I’ve got no idea which one is missing 😂. There’s no codes or any faults pulling up so can’t try swapping things over. It’s got new plugs, leads, injectors and lambda sensor. All genuine parts too. The only other one to try is a coil pack I suppose but like I say, that was new and changed a couple of years back and has done precisely 27 miles since!

Yarp · Feb 6, 2021

I think my misfire issues are pretty much sorted. After changing the plugs and leads in the week I hadn’t let it run up to temp and took the huff when the issues were still there as soon as I started it. Today I pulled it out and the idle seemed a bit better as soon as it fired up. It then proceeded to keep getting better until it was almost normal. The hesitation under throttle has also pretty much totally gone. I took it for a drive and it seems great. It’s still cutting out now and then when dipping the clutch and letting it go back to idle but I’ll worry about that later because I’ve pretty much ran out of things to check/change now!

Because I was in a good mood with it, I decided to treat it to some new bits. I stuck the new battery cover on which tidies the bay up nicely. I gave it a general clean up too and it’s come up pretty well. Really want to do the boost pipes in crackle paint now though.

After finishing that I decided that the top grill needed some attention. I whipped it off and gave it a blast with some satin black. It’s now sat in the airing cupboard with the wife’s towels to go off 😂. Looks shiny in the pic but it’s just cos the paint is still wet. Depending on how this turns out I may or may not also do the fog surrounds and bottom grill too

Yarp · Feb 7, 2021

The top grill turned out really well so decided to do the bottom grill and fog surrounds too. It’s really freshened the front up. Just can’t decide whether to stick my little french stickers back on there again. The flash doesn’t half highlight the stone chips and the splitter took a bit of a battering taking the bottom one out 🤣.

before:

After:

Yarp · Feb 14, 2021

Mission misfire continued this week. I ordered a new crank sensor and also got a loan of a know to be working coil pack just to be sure. The wiring for the sensor has been badly changed at some point with the wires twisted together and almost taped up. The sensor eas

Swapped the new one in and fitted the coil pack and there’s further progress been made. The rough running is now down to about the first 20 seconds after it starts and then it’s fine. The hesitation when revving under light load is pretty much entirely gone and the cutting out when slowing to a stop now only happens maybe 1/10 times.

when the revs are dropping at idle it does sound like there’s an air leak down the back of the block somewhere. The acoustic valve has gone and that now links to the FPR, the carbon canister feed is blanked and airtight and the one that goes to the brakes is connected and airtight. Not sure there’s anything else down there? What’s the port for on the underside of the upper inlet? Could that be leaking?

If there’s nothing else I’m half tempted to drill a hole or 2 in the blanked carbon canister pipe to increase the idle speed slightly and see what that does

Yarp · Feb 22, 2021

Had a bit more fannying at the weekend and I’ve now got the cutting out to go altogether and the rough idle down to the first 30 seconds or so. I’ve spoken to Chris @ EFI and he thinks it could be because it’s trying to run too lean at idle and it’s taking a while for the lambda to warm up and compensate.

It’s also been running 10psi of boost which on a gt28 and standard internals is a recipe for disaster 😂😂.

I tried to sort that tonight bu adjusting the actuator arm which has been successful and it’s now down to 8psi, but I’ve had to adjust the preload so much it doesn’t come on boost until 4k now 🤦‍♂️. New 7psi actuator has been ordered 👍

incy-spider · Feb 22, 2021

Has this actually been mapped mate?

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Yarp · Feb 22, 2021

incy-spider said:
Has this actually been mapped mate?

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Yep, it’s got the base map on from EFI. I sent them the ECU to get their low boost map put on. He thinks it’s had some underlying issues that replacing all the crap has fixed which is why it’s kept getting better with everything that has changed and last remaining issue is lean idle.

There’s someone local to me who should be able to adjust the fuelling fairly easily so I’ll get him to tweak it slightly and see how it goes from there.

leedsboy · Feb 22, 2021

Got a link to the actuator you've bought? I'm assuming I may have the same issue when I get my chinky turbo set up.

incy-spider · Feb 23, 2021

Get boost control guys! [emoji9]

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davo172 · Feb 23, 2021

Coming along nice is this 👍I would remove badges and paint cooler all black but I love the sleeper effect 😁

Yarp · Feb 23, 2021

leeds2592 said:
Got a link to the actuator you've bought? I'm assuming I may have the same issue when I get my chinky turbo set up.

incy-spider said:
Get boost control guys! [emoji9]

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It’s interesting you say that. The actuator I’ve ordered was from Shenzhen and wasn’t due to turn up until May 😳. It’s since been cancelled so onto plan B. Is there anything you’d recommend? It’d have to be manual with the ecu having nothing to do with boost at the min

davo172 said:
Coming along nice is this 👍I would remove badges and paint cooler all black but I love the sleeper effect 😁

Cheers! I want it to look as original as possible, just with a few little changes that the untrained eye wouldn’t spot straight away. I thought about doing the intercooler black but it wasn’t the cheapest of things and couldn’t bring myself to do it! I’ll wait until it picks up a few dings and stone chips and think about it then 😊

Fishfire · Feb 23, 2021

I'm following your build with interest as I'm going down the same route.

Regarding boost control, using actuator pressure is very old school and typically doesn't give a very good boost profile.

I'll be using an electronic boost controller (there's quite a few decent 2nd hand ones kicking around) as this eliminates wastegate creep which sounds like what you are experiencing now. As long as the actuator can be set to the target boost level, or a little lower an EBC should transform the way the boost comes in.
Iirc from my previous boosted cars I modified, I usually set the actuator arm to half a hole shorter, which provides minimal pressure to keep the wategate closed until the boost controller open at the preset boost level.

A decent manual boost controller is cheaper and is also a much better option than running actuator pressure

😁

Radugns · Feb 23, 2021

incy-spider said:
Get boost control guys! [emoji9]

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Or use good rods

))

Fishfire · Feb 23, 2021

Also, I'd be looking at porting the wastegate itself as from researching the chinese garrett copies, they are typically no where near as large as the should be

Yarp · Feb 23, 2021

Fishfire said:
Also, I'd be looking at porting the wastegate itself as from researching the chinese garrett copies, they are typically no where near as large as the should be

The wastegate seems ok on mine for the application to be honest. On actuator pressure it’s been holding 10psi without fluctuating at all. I’ve used them before in “reasonable” boost applications and never had any problems with them. When you factor in the cost they really are a disposable item. A set of front disks and pads costs more than the turbo and we don’t have this drama with them. They just get used, destroyed and binned 😂.

Anyway, I’ve ordered a manual boost controller and a new bracket for the actuator. The current one sits at an awkward angle and is pretty much touching the heat shield as in the pic below so seems like a good time to sort that too

Fishfire · Feb 24, 2021

Yep, totally get the cost thing on the churbo, which is why I'll be doing exactly tbe same lol.

You'll notice a difference with a boost controller tbh.
The problem with running actuator pressure is the moment the turbo starts to produce positive pressure, you're applying force on the wastegate immediately, and even if your target boost is 10psi, it'll start opening way before that (wastegste creep) hence why you're not seeing peak boost until higher rpm. With any form of boost controller in line before the wastegate it'll bleed off any pressure on the wastegate before target boost, and hence you'll hit your target boost much sooner than you are currently.

If you've got an air compressure with a pressure regulator you can set your actuator up off the car. Obvs this needs to be set at less than target boost, so when your boost controller hits your desired boost level and directs pressure to the actuator it opens immediately without spiking.

Let us know how it goes!

My build has hit a small set back after I found all the exhaust valves in my donor engine we're banana shaped 🤦‍♂️🤣

Adey. · Feb 24, 2021

look for a dawes device type manual controller for a cheap and cheerful way to help with spool, work way better than a bleed type valve as they tend not send any boost pressure to the actuator until the set level is reached thus getting rid of the creeping open so give you a bit more low down power.

cheap and cheerful ball and spring style, here I found one

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/22053704...oq_3VTtc-0c1ggV3zbHAeHo4Zwo2Wz_8aArZ3EALw_wcB

H2MRK · Feb 24, 2021

Adeyspec said:
look for a dawes device type manual controller for a cheap and cheerful way to help with spool, work way better than a bleed type valve as they tend not send any boost pressure to the actuator until the set level is reached thus getting rid of the creeping open so give you a bit more low down power.

cheap and cheerful ball and spring style, here I found one

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/22053704...oq_3VTtc-0c1ggV3zbHAeHo4Zwo2Wz_8aArZ3EALw_wcB

This is what I fitted on my 182 Turbo when fitted with Chinesium tubski, worked a treat!

leedsboy · Feb 24, 2021

Adeyspec said:
look for a dawes device type manual controller for a cheap and cheerful way to help with spool, work way better than a bleed type valve as they tend not send any boost pressure to the actuator until the set level is reached thus getting rid of the creeping open so give you a bit more low down power.

cheap and cheerful ball and spring style, here I found one

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/22053704...oq_3VTtc-0c1ggV3zbHAeHo4Zwo2Wz_8aArZ3EALw_wcB

H2MRK said:
This is what I fitted on my 182 Turbo when fitted with Chinesium tubski, worked a treat!

Is it then a bit of a balancing act to get both the actuator and boost controller set to the correct amount for each?

Adey. · Feb 24, 2021

ideally you set an actuator as loose or at the lowest possible pressure you can run without it effecting spool up time and then use a controller/bleed valve to go up from there.

Yarp · Feb 24, 2021

Fishfire said:
Yep, totally get the cost thing on the churbo, which is why I'll be doing exactly tbe same lol.

You'll notice a difference with a boost controller tbh.
The problem with running actuator pressure is the moment the turbo starts to produce positive pressure, you're applying force on the wastegate immediately, and even if your target boost is 10psi, it'll start opening way before that (wastegste creep) hence why you're not seeing peak boost until higher rpm. With any form of boost controller in line before the wastegate it'll bleed off any pressure on the wastegate before target boost, and hence you'll hit your target boost much sooner than you are currently.

If you've got an air compressure with a pressure regulator you can set your actuator up off the car. Obvs this needs to be set at less than target boost, so when your boost controller hits your desired boost level and directs pressure to the actuator it opens immediately without spiking.

Let us know how it goes!

My build has hit a small set back after I found all the exhaust valves in my donor engine we're banana shaped 🤦‍♂️🤣

Absolute nightmare! Been there, done that, didn’t like it 😂.

yeah, hopefully it’ll work well!

Adeyspec said:
ideally you set an actuator as loose or at the lowest possible pressure you can run without it effecting spool up time and then use a controller/bleed valve to go up from there.

That makes sense but Im now thinking the controller might not solve my issue then. With the actuator set perfectly with just the right preload it was holding 10psi. Can I use the controller to get the same spool time with less boost or will I still need to change the actuator to get it to open at lower psi?

Adey. · Feb 24, 2021

If 10psi seems to be your base value you may have to change the actuator or change where you take a reference from to make it see it differently.

So the 10psi the actuator sees is taken from a pressure reference point. Usually from the inlet manifold. To see 10psi at the inlet the turbo might actually be pushing 14psi but the restrictions along the way knock it down. So if you take the pressure ref point at the turbo outlet, pre all the losses, the actuator will still see 10psi but the engine/inlet may see 6psi.

Does that kind of make sense?

Also where are you reading boost pressure from, the one you see on a gauge? Inlet manifold is the best place ideally.

Fishfire · Feb 24, 2021

If you're saying with the arm on the actuator set at its minimum (usually half a hole on the arm) and you're holding 10psi, then no, a boost controller won't lower the peak boost.

You'll need a weaker spring in the actuator but these being sealed units you won't be able to change it. I've seen springs put over the actator arm to counter a strong spring in the actuator, but that's a bit chip shop for my liking.
I've seen that actuator settings on the churbos can vary wildly. Some will open at 5psi, others at 15psi.
I've looked at some of the cheaper adjustable actuators as I'm predicting having the same issues, so want to make sure I've already got a low pressure spring in the actuator in place.

See ebay item 273492572078

An adjustable actuator set at 5psi, will allow you to use a boost controller set at say 8psi. As soon as the boost controller opens up at the set pressure you're waste gate (being set lower than your desired peak boost) will open immediately.

The boost controller will also stop the wastegate opening before it opens at your desired pre set psi so you'll hit your desired boost way sooner than you are now.

Spoll up depends on turbo size....bigger the turbo the slower the spool up, but as I've said, with a boost controller stopping wastegate creep you'll se boost building early and faster than you are currently.

I've waffled on quite a lot but I hope that makes some sense lol

Yarp · Feb 24, 2021

Adeyspec said:
If 10psi seems to be your base value you may have to change the actuator or change where you take a reference from to make it see it differently.

So the 10psi the actuator sees is taken from a pressure reference point. Usually from the inlet manifold. To see 10psi at the inlet the turbo might actually be pushing 14psi but the restrictions along the way knock it down. So if you take the pressure ref point at the turbo outlet, pre all the losses, the actuator will still see 10psi but the engine/inlet may see 6psi.

Does that kind of make sense?

Also where are you reading boost pressure from, the one you see on a gauge? Inlet manifold is the best place ideally.

Right, that makes perfect sense. So the actuator is taking its feed straight from the turbo outlet so could be pulling anything from there really.

I’m getting the boost gauge reading from a feed on the bend just before the throttle body, but mainly just because I didn’t have anything else to blank the hole with and keep things looking neat. I’ll move it to the feed that used to do the carbon canister instead and see what that reads.

There could be a decent amount of trial and error here 🤣

Fishfire said:
If you're saying with the arm on the actuator set at its minimum (usually half a hole on the arm) and you're holding 10psi, then no, a boost controller won't lower the peak boost.

You'll need a weaker spring in the actuator but these being sealed units you won't be able to change it. I've seen springs put over the actator arm to counter a strong spring in the actuator, but that's a bit chip shop for my liking.
I've seen that actuator settings on the churbos can vary wildly. Some will open at 5psi, others at 15psi.
I've looked at some of the cheaper adjustable actuators as I'm predicting having the same issues, so want to make sure I've already got a low pressure spring in the actuator in place.

See ebay item 273492572078

An adjustable actuator set at 5psi, will allow you to use a boost controller set at say 8psi. As soon as the boost controller opens up at the set pressure you're waste gate (being set lower than your desired peak boost) will open immediately.

The boost controller will also stop the wastegate opening before it opens at your desired pre set psi so you'll hit your desired boost way sooner than you are now.

Spoll up depends on turbo size....bigger the turbo the slower the spool up, but as I've said, with a boost controller stopping wastegate creep you'll se boost building early and faster than you are currently.

I've waffled on quite a lot but I hope that makes some sense lol

There’s no holes on the arm, it’s just a threaded rod that needs adjusted. Originally I set it so the wastegate was closed then just a smidge more on it just to give a little bit of pre-load. Setup was perfect aside from the boost 🤦‍♂️. On the original setup it made full boost by just over 2k and held it perfectly too. I’ve always had it before where it’s spiked and tailed off slightly but this has been bang on.

Pretty gutted I didn’t get a 5psi one, that would make life much easier haha! Could need some imaginative engineering to get the desired result I think 😉

Adey. · Feb 24, 2021

If your actuator is already taking its feed from the turbo outlet its already at the lowest pressure point it can take it from, moving it further from the turbo will only increase overall boost pressure to the engine. So you are into the realms of swapping out the actuator for a lower rated one in my opinion. Could just get it set to 10psi and take it to scoff for a mapping session

Fishfire · Feb 24, 2021

Half a hole refers to the hole on tbe end of the actuator arm.
You pop it off and wind it in until the hole only half covers where it attaches to the wategate. This gives you minimum preload on the arm, but it sounds like you've pretty much done that anyway 😉

Fishfire · Feb 24, 2021

Picture paints a thousand words and all that.
Thats what I mean by half a hole (diameter) of preloaded.

Yarp · Feb 24, 2021

Adeyspec said:
If your actuator is already taking its feed from the turbo outlet its already at the lowest pressure point it can take it from, moving it further from the turbo will only increase overall boost pressure to the engine. So you are into the realms of swapping out the actuator for a lower rated one in my opinion. Could just get it set to 10psi and take it to scoff for a mapping session

I like that plan but on standard internals it’ll go bang pretty quickly. The bill is growing by the second 😂.

I can see the grinder getting fired up to sort this 😊

Fishfire said:
View attachment 1523471

Picture paints a thousand words and all that.
Thats what I mean by half a hole (diameter) of preloaded.

that does speak a thousand words! That’s exactly what I did, just in words not pictures 🤣

Fishfire · Feb 24, 2021

Worth a watch: a cheap mod to reduce your actuator spring pressure.
It's a bit chip shop for my liking lol, but it seems to work and cheaper than fitting an adjustable actuator.

Yarp · Feb 24, 2021

Fishfire said:
Worth a watch: a cheap mod to reduce your actuator spring pressure.
It's a bit chip shop for my liking lol, but it seems to work and cheaper than fitting an adjustable actuator.

I love it! that’s right up my street 😂😂. I’ve got millions of washers in stock but low on springs. Reckon a couple of decent clicky pen springs would do it?

Yarp · Feb 25, 2021

Ffs! I’ve done it again. Actuator bracket is gonna be a while 😂😂😂🤦‍♂️

Louis · Feb 25, 2021

SteveC_1879 said:
Ffs! I’ve done it again. Actuator bracket is gonna be a while 😂😂😂🤦‍♂️

View attachment 1523623

Probably faster than UPS

Yarp · Mar 3, 2021

I had a free hour today so spent some time on the Clio. I’m still waiting for stuff turning up so was fairly boring. I’d got a new bonnet cable and mechanism after mine exploded a few weeks back. I took one look at replacing it and decided I didn’t have time for that negativity in my life so removed the cable from the mechanism and just replaced that. Worked a treat.

I then had a go at the headlights which were absolutely terrible. I couldn’t find the pad that goes on the drill so ended up doing them with G3 by hand. They aren’t perfect but 1000x better. All the yellow crap has now gone. One on the right is done, left untouched.

Yarp · Mar 6, 2021

My boost controller arrived today so decided to go full pikey and use the spring on the actuator. 100% didn’t work. Just ended up with loads of lag until nearly 5k then a massive dump of 15psi of boost and that was at 1/2 throttle!!! Wind the boost control valve a bit and managed to get it to come on boost at about 4k but was still aiming for rod bending psi. Moral of the story, I need a 7psi actuator

Yarp · Mar 10, 2021

Had a stroke of genius with the actuator. I remembered the other day that the standard z20let uses 7-8psi and I’ve got an old turbo sat with a mountain of other Astra related crap that’s been in my mams shed for years. Sure enough it was still there and I found a catch tank too. I’m still waiting on the new actuator bracket arriving so rather than messing about twice decided just to hold off. After much head scratching I finally found just the right spot for the catch can. It’s tucked right under the slam panel and can’t be seen at all from the front unless you’re looking down over it. Hopefully it should be a little bit less stinky now and always good to have a non-filtered way to the engine blocked! More to follow once the bracket turns up

Yarp · Mar 23, 2021

no more Clio progress recently. Been on with the 5 estate trying to sort it’s misting headlight. It’s eventually destroyed the headlight ecu (seriously, why is that a thing) so had to bite the bullet and replace it.

it’s a bumper almost off job. What an absolute doddle. No shitty torx screws that are rusted to death, every single bolt (of which there are many) was a stainless 8mm that came out with no argument

Stuck the headlight in the oven to dry it which was a pretty tight squeeze. I didn’t realise quite how enormous it was. I then sealed the entire outside of the headlight with some nasty all weather sealant and so far there’s no new water ingress. Irritatingly the headlight bulb must have still been damp from my leak test when I put it back in cos the bulb popped. Trade price of £44.50, won’t do that again in a hurry 🤦‍♂️.

It’s all back together and I now have 2 angry looking 5s with a full selection of non flickering angel eyes and working indicators. Happy days! More Clio progress at the weekend

Yarp · Apr 3, 2021

The sun was out and life was good today so decided it was time to show the Clio a bit of love. My actuator bracket never materialised so I decided just to make one myself.

After a few CAD (cardboard aided design) efforts I got the right shape. Serious precision engineering right here

Then chopped said design out of some 2mm stainless with some tin snips. This is the first version before a tidy up. It’s bent one of the edges over slightly too just for some extra rigidity in it.

Next up was to fit the z20let 6pis actuator. The new one is on the left, old one is on the bracket. No idea why it’s so massive but hopefully it’ll bring the boost down to sensible levels

The fun didn’t end there though. The end of the arm for the original actuator is m6 x1.0. The new one is m6 x something else. Out came the tap and die set to tap the new actuator to m6 x 1.0. Once the arm was attached it became clear it was about 35mm too long. I chopped 15mm from each half and then added some spacers to the bracket and it’s bang on. Just need to do the bolts up properly and plumb the boost pipes back in and it’ll be good to go. The bracket has moved it up and away from the bulkhead too as the old one kept hitting it. Hopefully on test drive tomorrow it’s where it needs to be!

Yarp · Apr 5, 2021

Took the car out for a quick drive today to see how the new actuator works and it’s absolutely perfect! Boost is peaking at just under 8psi and holding perfectly to the redline. I’m not getting full boost until nearly 5k so the preload isn’t quite right but that’s a very easy fix. I’ll sort that once it’s cooled down.

I’ve bought a rs tuner for it too. It’s picked up a couple of faults I wasn’t getting that I’ve cleared and haven’t come back. I’ll hopefully be able to get some decent live data and find out what the cold/low rev misfire is all about. The abs lights are on too so it’ll be nice to get rid of them as well. Once that’s done it MOT time 👍

Yarp · Apr 30, 2021

Little bit more progress on the Clio over the last week. I noticed the rear shocks were paggered so swapped them for some cup ones. The ones on there were shite fitted by a previous owner so hopefully these are a nice improvement.

Next up was the issues with the abs sensor and the Christmas tree dashboard. I ordered some sensors from Latvia for about 1/4 of the price of the ones from the uk so got them fitted. Hub with all the bits stripped back

The new sensor was the right fitment and the right length but back to front. Nothing that can’t be fixed. Tapped a new thread into the hub for it

and all nice and fitted

and when I was on I gave the front half of the calliper a lick of red to match the fronts

That’s done the trick and the abs lights off 👍. also fitted a new set of pads to the front that I’d had sat for ages. It’s bugging me that they don’t cover the whole disk and I’ll starting to get a rusty ring on the disk around the middle but dont suppose there’s much I can do about that.

next up was the mot and it passed with flying colours 😁. No advisories at all!! I’d adjusted the preload before taking it in and the boost is spot on now too. It’s coming on boost not much over 2.5k and holding 8psi to the redline so absolutely perfect.

The only thing the tester said was the oil return is quite close to the exhaust and is showing signs it’s been warm and might end up melting through eventually. I’ll replace it with a steel line and that’ll sort that!

tomorrow’s job is to tax it then it’s play time 😎

Clio 182 Turbo

I Park Like a C**t

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