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Knuckles
ClioSport Admin
R27.
But... Can someone tell me the difference between the 197 and 200? Is it just a map, gearbox and faster steering rack between them? and the ugly front
But... Can someone tell me the difference between the 197 and 200? Is it just a map, gearbox and faster steering rack between them? and the ugly front
Christopher
ClioSport Club Member
Z4M
I loved my 182 and owned it for five years.
But you've just got to pick the 200.
If you were underwhelmed by the 197 like I was, then try a 200.
It got me to order one.
But you've just got to pick the 200.
If you were underwhelmed by the 197 like I was, then try a 200.
It got me to order one.
Knuckles
ClioSport Admin
Why were you underwhelmed?
Christopher
ClioSport Club Member
Z4M
It didn't feel like a hot hatch. It felt underpowered due to the gearing/torque peak and extra weight over the Mk2.
They corrected both these issues on the 200. It copes much better with it's extra heft.
Brilliant chassis on both though.
They corrected both these issues on the 200. It copes much better with it's extra heft.
Brilliant chassis on both though.
Christopher
ClioSport Club Member
Z4M
Yup. Go for a test drive mate. Make sure it's a proper one too... You'll love it.
Get an R27. The 200 is just a great marketing gimmick, nothing drastic has changed.
Its exactly the same as the 172 vs 182 - at the time the 182 was meant to be miles better due to manifold etc, of course now that all the hype has died down everyone can see there is nothing in it.
Same as the 197 vs 200. If you get the R27 it will have the revised ECU map anyway, and who cares about the gearbox when it will probably still smash into a million peices one day.
Its exactly the same as the 172 vs 182 - at the time the 182 was meant to be miles better due to manifold etc, of course now that all the hype has died down everyone can see there is nothing in it.
Same as the 197 vs 200. If you get the R27 it will have the revised ECU map anyway, and who cares about the gearbox when it will probably still smash into a million peices one day.
Since 2003 I've had all of them. I can't be arsed to give a full on review, but I'll summerise my thoughts on my Clios.
172 - a decent enough fun car, lack of ultimate grip made it great fun to hoon around in
182 - a better car, more grip, great fun on track
Trophy - a better car in some ways but more compromised and not as adjustable on the limit
197 - Looked better, felt heavier, stupid amount of grip, felt a bit vague, engine was s**t at low revs and when cold
200 - by far the best of the bunch. Pulls better, sounds better, looks better, corners better, has nice direct steering making mid corner adjustments really easy
PMSL at Alans comment about the R27 being similar to the 200. You have no idea how much better the 200 is to drive. The difference between the 197/R27 and 200 is far more noticable than the difference between the 182 and the Trophy.
Plus, no amount of ECU fiddling will sort out the lack of low down torque or cold running issuse the 197 has. Plus the R27 is just an over priced badging exercise used to introduce the cup suspension.
172 - a decent enough fun car, lack of ultimate grip made it great fun to hoon around in
182 - a better car, more grip, great fun on track
Trophy - a better car in some ways but more compromised and not as adjustable on the limit
197 - Looked better, felt heavier, stupid amount of grip, felt a bit vague, engine was s**t at low revs and when cold
200 - by far the best of the bunch. Pulls better, sounds better, looks better, corners better, has nice direct steering making mid corner adjustments really easy
PMSL at Alans comment about the R27 being similar to the 200. You have no idea how much better the 200 is to drive. The difference between the 197/R27 and 200 is far more noticable than the difference between the 182 and the Trophy.
Plus, no amount of ECU fiddling will sort out the lack of low down torque or cold running issuse the 197 has. Plus the R27 is just an over priced badging exercise used to introduce the cup suspension.
TBH yes i do! I've driven both. I borrowed a 200 and drove it to Lincoln and back, it was nice, but i wasnt exactly left feeling it was MILES better than a 197 at all.
Yes the 200 does feel different to the 197, in the same way as my 182 felt different to the 172 (mostly due to the cup pack and exhaust note TBH, so the car overall just seemed better but maybe wasn't). But for me at least, to say the 200 has somehow completely transformed the mk3 is a bit wide of the mark, it had mearly made some improvements, in the same way they did with the 182 over a 172.
You only have to read the evo reviews etc of the 182 at the time it came out to see how raving they all were when compared with the 172, such as here - http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/43716/renaultsport_clio.html , but alas over time these slightly over enthusiastic write ups havent held water. IMO that will be the same case when the hype over the 200 dies down in a few years and people get less emotive about them. There will be loads of people posting up here saying "nothing in it", in the same way they now do with the 172 vs 182.
I'm not knocking the 200, i like them, but the cost difference doesnt seem worth it to me.
lee didnt know you were still out and about...
check you out chris, hope you got a good deal..... what spec you having. what happened to the clio 197 cup, that looked great the spec you had!!!!
200 sounds best then, can get them under 10 which is what i paid for the 182 cup back 5 yrs ago
check you out chris, hope you got a good deal..... what spec you having. what happened to the clio 197 cup, that looked great the spec you had!!!!
200 sounds best then, can get them under 10 which is what i paid for the 182 cup back 5 yrs ago
The enthusiasm for the Trophy has never waned, and it's still held with the same high regard it had when it came out. As the 200 is most likely the last of it's kind, before we move on to small capacity turbos, it's likely to be remembered the same way.
Borrowing one isn't quite the same as living with them all for periods of time. I once borrowed a V6 for a day, but don't think I can really go in to its full character in depth. Having lived with the 197 for 4 years, the 200 is a far more complete package. I didn't want to believe the reviews, as I didn't really feel I wanted another Clio, but nothing else hit the spot.
If you're in to what the motoring press have to say, pretty much all of them felt let down by the 197, yet they all beat one off over the 200.
There is nothing in it, there's always been nothing in it with the hot Clios, but in terms of feel and driver confidence there's quite a lot in it.
That sounds a bit like I'm 197 bashing. I'm not, otherwise I wouldn't have kept mine as long as I did. Up to now it's been one of my favourite cars, along with the Trophy and Pug 306 GTi-6. The 200 just does what all of those cars did, rolled in to one.
Yeah, I'm still about Paul. Just not as active as I used to be. Just having a curry at work, and felt like exercising my fingers.
You know you want to: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rodstreet/sets/72157628842416693/
By the way, if you go for a 197, avoid BV08 SXY.
Christopher
ClioSport Club Member
Z4M
I'd listen to Lee over anyone, and ideally ignore Alan since he doesn't know what he's talking about.
197 - 200 is a huge step. Night and day.
Not marketing.
197 - 200 is a huge step. Night and day.
Not marketing.
R26
1*2 if you want the most fun, especially on track.
200 to live with everyday.
200 to live with everyday.
Knuckles
ClioSport Admin
Oh? I thought that was only on the <08 cars?
Christopher
ClioSport Club Member
Z4M
It was. And recalled/amended cars.
Chris205
ClioSport Club Member
Many Things
Yeah, it did bring bad luck with it, but what I car. I still rate the 172 Cup up there with it too. It may not have had the fancy dampers, but the reduction in weight was noticable.
It was the steering feel which surprised and sold me on the 200. I agree about the gearbox. Mine is hellish when cold, and doesn't like 2nd and 3rd until it's fully warmed up. The 197 had 4th gear synchro go and had to be replaced along with 4th gear.
107 Track Car & C4
I thought this too. I was going to get a 197 but when I test drove it, it didn't feel quite good enough. The 182 feels, to me, a much more fun car to drive. I would imagine that the Mk3's are a nicer place to be though on a daily basis.
The enthusiasm for the Trophy has never waned, and it's still held with the same high regard it had when it came out. As the 200 is most likely the last of it's kind, before we move on to small capacity turbos, it's likely to be remembered the same way.
Borrowing one isn't quite the same as living with them all for periods of time. I once borrowed a V6 for a day, but don't think I can really go in to its full character in depth. Having lived with the 197 for 4 years, the 200 is a far more complete package. I didn't want to believe the reviews, as I didn't really feel I wanted another Clio, but nothing else hit the spot.
If you're in to what the motoring press have to say, pretty much all of them felt let down by the 197, yet they all beat one off over the 200.
There is nothing in it, there's always been nothing in it with the hot Clios, but in terms of feel and driver confidence there's quite a lot in it.
That sounds a bit like I'm 197 bashing. I'm not, otherwise I wouldn't have kept mine as long as I did. Up to now it's been one of my favourite cars, along with the Trophy and Pug 306 GTi-6. The 200 just does what all of those cars did, rolled in to one.
Yeah, I'm still about Paul. Just not as active as I used to be. Just having a curry at work, and felt like exercising my fingers.
You know you want to: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rodstreet/sets/72157628842416693/
By the way, if you go for a 197, avoid BV08 SXY.
I'm not massively into the motoring press (or else i wouldnt have bought a 197!!), but when the 197 was out, it was being compared to the 182 and mostly the trophy, so its no surprise they were not blown away, as the 197 is slower, but makes up for it in handling around a track and great brakes. And lets not forget there are many purists who will say the 182 is still faster and more sorted car than the 200, for example there are quite a few online circuit clips and also there was that guy on here who felt he was stitched up when he lent his 182 for a session against a 200. So i wonder how well the 200 would stack up in a review against the 182 if the 197 didnt exist?
But i do like the 200 though and am glad you like yours.
Interesting comment coming from the person who vowed never to buy a 200 as they "botched the front end and the wheels look cack". Its good to see you have a more mature way to evaluate a car than you used to.
And also, i dont recall you ever owning a 197? Taking into account Lee's point above, that would also mean you are in no position to judge fairly?
Knuckles
ClioSport Admin
Were they made with it though? Because there's a chance some could've not been taken in for the recall isn't there?
And how has a revised steering rack and map made the 200 so much better? I'm not picking an argument, I'm genuinely asking lol
R27s only came out on the very late 57 plates (a small handful), and then 08s, hence the uprated ECU was available on all R27s.
I really like the 200 - I think it looks great. I know alot of people don't, but I think it looks better than the 197, just can't bring myself to spend that much on a Clio.
Looked on PH the other day & a Raider is about £21k. Unreal. £21k. On a Renault Clio. Wow. Look brilliant though.
Looked on PH the other day & a Raider is about £21k. Unreal. £21k. On a Renault Clio. Wow. Look brilliant though.
Steering wise, the 197 Cup had a vague feel around the central point for me, on motorways it felt dead in the centre, mid corner it never felt to load up enough to give you confidence to push or know what the front end was doing. You could push a 182 and feel it dig in, lifting a rear wheel in the process. The 200 steering feels weightier (though still a little light), and loads up nicely through the corner, it feels more direct meaning you can get the input right first time. It requires far less arm movement too, so I'd say the ratio has also been changed. That's how it feels to me anyhow.
I'm not sure what they did with regard to the engine, but at the top end it's not really much different to the 197, but getting there is so much easier. It pulls so much harder and with much less effort from low revs. I'm pretty sure it was more than a map (didn't they do something with the cylinder head and variable valve timing?), as they never cured the problem on the 197, unless that was purely to make the 200 even more attractive. Basically the 197 didn't wake up until at least 4k, the 200 starts much lower down the rev range. The 20% increase in low down torque is very noticable, and leaves you less prone to being caught napping when having a play. :race: You still have to rev the balls off it though.
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Knuckles
ClioSport Admin
Hmm, I'll have to have a drive for myself and see
Not that it really matters, but to quote Evo, as I know some people love pub chat stats: "The Clio 200 Cup lapped the West Circuit in 1.32.0, 2.2 seconds faster than the
197 Cup did last summer. But then that’s evolution for you. "
What Will said. :approve:
Ignore me Paul, you always used to.
197 Cup did last summer. But then that’s evolution for you. "
What Will said. :approve:
Ignore me Paul, you always used to.
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Christopher
ClioSport Club Member
Z4M
Spot on.
Also, sorry Alan... I didn't mean to sound like a knob before but they really are that different.
Also, sorry Alan... I didn't mean to sound like a knob before but they really are that different.
Golf 7R
I don't own any, but have owned all of them at some point. If I could pick one to own again, it would be the 200 hands down.
