Another Track-tyre thread….

[Space Cadet]

Currently I’m running 888’s on one set of wheels for use on the track and have a set of brand-new T1-R’s on another set for the road (not that I do a lot of road miles, but just saves wearing down the 888’s). I’m going to have to replace the 888’s soon, they’ve lasted really well with approx. 2k miles including a dozen or so track-days so am happy to go with them again as they’re fantastic in the dry and also surprising in the wet (on track). But I now have the option of replacing the 888’s with full slicks so my question is if I do this are the T1-R’s any good in the wet on track? If so I’d run with the slicks in the dry on track and the T1-R’s on the road and also if it’s wet on track. I know there are dedicated wet track-tyres but I’m limited by only having two sets of wheels and also the T1-R’s are brand new. Any other suggestions for an all-round dry & wet track-only tyre? The AO48’s are not meant to be as good, other than that I don’t know of any?

 

[Bobby.]

R1-R are suppose to be a good tyre in the wet plus they stand up quite well in the dry (idea for the days when you keep getting light showers and the slicks can't be used)

v12's and rainsports also get good review for wet driving.

I personally wouldn't want to use t1-r's if I could help it.

 

[Space Cadet]

Thanks but I wasn't asking what I should replace the T1-R's with, but that if they're any good on track in the wet if I get some slicks for the dry? I bought them as a cheap set of decent'ish tyres to use on the road so I don’t need to unnecessarily wear down the track tyres. The decision is whether to replace the old 888's like for like or to go full slicks or if there is any better track specific all-weather tyre than the 888? If/when I ever get a trailer I'll have a set of slicks and a set of proper race-wets and wont need to worry about road tyres.

 

[Chip-mk1]

T1R are ok on track in the wet, but not great as the tread pattern gets too narrow at the shoulder of the tyre compared to something like a rainsport.

Try them and see how YOU feel about them though.


And you need to think about the fact that what do you do when its just damp?

I had that problem at combe last year with my corsa, I took some slicks (well MSPC worn down so much they were essentially slicks) and some wets and I drove up on T1R.

The weather couldnt make its mind up and was a bit damp, I couldnt risk the dries in case the rain went worse and the wets would have got pulled to bits as there wasnt enoug standing water to cool them, so had to go out on the T1R and they really werent upto the abuse on the drier sections.


RSR would be a better supporting tyre for a set of slicks, and is in fact what I have moved a couple of our trackday cars over to now, as they still work really well if you end up out on them when it dries out a lot. That is what I would recomend to anyone, a set of RSR for anything other than very dry, and some slicks or very good dry tyres for when you know its a totally dry day.

 

[Space Cadet]

Thanks Chip, I didn't think far enough ahead as originally just planned to use the T1-R's on the road (which only ever consists of driving up & down to TDF when I have work done and to the track, or the odd weekend country-road shake-down) and just keep using 888's on track. On track the 888's are obviously great in the dry but as there's no standing water (at Brands at least) they work surprising great in the damp and wet. At the moment I'm not going to change the T1-R's as want/need a set for the road, so its just do I go full-slicks on the other set, or replace with another set of 888's or is there a better track-only option than the 888?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Best road legal track tyre I have used personally is the Michelin Pilot Sport cup, but they are around 800 quid a set in 15"

You could always get slicks and then cut them so they work in the damp stuff too, or use some of the tarmac rally tyres that arent road legal but have a tread pattern.

 

[Space Cadet]

Thanks Chip. If I keep the T1-R's for the road (which for the near future I will be) the track set don’t need to be road-legal at all. Not sure I would feel confident cutting grooves into some slicks. Hadn't thought about tarmac rally tyres, presumably these are pretty much pre-cut slicks? - in which case will these really be any better than 888's?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Thanks Chip. If I keep the T1-R's for the road (which for the near future I will be) the track set don’t need to be road-legal at all. Not sure I would feel confident cutting grooves into some slicks. Hadn't thought about tarmac rally tyres, presumably these are pretty much pre-cut slicks? - in which case will these really be any better than 888's?

Depends what you are wanting form them, if you are going to sprint the car or similar then yes they can be a lot better as they are designed to get to working temp more quickly, and not being road legal means less cost for them to get to market so they can be good value.

 

[Chip-mk1]

PS

BigAsh found that DZ03G took half a second a lap off his times compared to 888 for example.

A048 is another tyre I prefer to 888, as is the MPSC I have already mentioned.



Thats all just other road legal options too, without getting into the competition only stuff.

 

[Kelv]

Chip, was that the RSR you had on yours when we were at the ring?

we run our clio on the standard 182 wheels with a typically average road tyre for all conditions when on the road and to/from trackdays.
then the black 2118's (purchased off Mark (Space Cadet) a week before we went to the ring) and we have 888's on them now, even hauled them down to the ring in the boot to change over once there.

 

[Greeny.]

I have R1R's on my track wheels as they came in at £82 a corner fitted, would of loved 888's but at just under double the cost a tyre I didnt think it was worth it. £500 on tyres for 3 track days a year is fairly OTT, unless you're made of money!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Chip, was that the RSR you had on yours when we were at the ring?

we run our clio on the standard 182 wheels with a typically average road tyre for all conditions when on the road and to/from trackdays.
then the black 2118's (purchased off Mark (Space Cadet) a week before we went to the ring) and we have 888's on them now, even hauled them down to the ring in the boot to change over once there.

Yes mate we were on the RSR, worked great on the wet days and the dry days and fine for the drive over and back.

Only downside to them is the shoulders wear quite quickly on the outside edge, exagerated in our car by the road camber settings

 

[Space Cadet]

Thanks Chip, will take a look at the DZ03G's. Any particular brands/models of tarmac rally tyres you'd suggest looking at? - They will only ever be used for 15-20 minutes sessions as that's about it for me and the car and we need to cool down. Hi Kelv - glad the wheels are still turning. Greeny - something's wrong with the car set-up if 888's only last 3 track-days. I'm probably at about 12 with mine and there's probably another 1 or 2 days left in the fronts, rears may be another day - 15 minute sessions at a time and letting them heat up and cool down properly and keeping a check of the pressures and they have a nice even wear.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Have a look on Demon Tweeks mate there are loads of options. Sadly most of the ones I would recomend arent available in 15", its not a well catered for size with tarmac competition tyres as normally people run bigger wheels than that on tarmac to allow bigger brakes.

go for a medium compound if you do it, as the super soft are ridiculous!

They do these in 15" which I have used in bigger sizes and was impressed by, 155 quid+VAT a corner in 200 width though:
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/competition-tyres/dunlop-cr311-tyre

 

[Space Cadet]

Thanks for all your advice Chip it is much appreciated, will take a look at Demon Tweeks. I hadn't thought of running a wider tyre, does the extra 10mm make a big difference? What profile do you go for if you use 205's?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Thanks for all your advice Chip it is much appreciated, will take a look at Demon Tweeks. I hadn't thought of running a wider tyre, does the extra 10mm make a big difference? What profile do you go for if you use 205's?

For 205 I go for 205/50/15, thats the size MPSC we have on a couple of sets of wheels at the moment.
Its not a big difference, but I believe it does help.
You would need to ask racers with proper datalogs though, as trackday "I think its better" testimonial from me is unreliable TBH!

 

[Chip-mk1]

PS

a 200/585/15 is the competition size you probably want, similar to a 205/50/15 road tyre.

 

[Space Cadet]

Thanks again Chip. I had a look on t'internet as to the competition tyre sizing but couldn't find anything. What scale is the 585 a measurement of? Those CR311's look great, will give them a go as they're not 'too' much more than 888's.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Its the diameter in mm mate.

 

[Advikaz]

The Pilot sports cup only come in certain sizes tho which is a shame! Not to mention they aren'ty cheap!

Mega tyre tho.

 

[Chip-mk1]

The Pilot sports cup only come in certain sizes tho which is a shame! Not to mention they aren'ty cheap!

Mega tyre tho.

205/50/15 is what I use them in, this is perfect for a clio

 

[Space Cadet]

A-ha, thanks, was so obvious I missed it. So a 'normal' 195/50/15 tyre has an overall diameter of 576mm and the competition tyre 585mm so only 9mm more which is nothing plus its on track so it doesn't matter that the rolling radius is slightly greater. The 205/50/15 size which you also recommended works out at 586mm so almost exactly the same size as the competition tyre sizing.

 

[Advikaz]

I haven't been able to find them for a 200's 17's chip? any idea's?

 

[Chip-mk1]

I haven't been able to find them for a 200's 17's chip? any idea's?

They do 225/45/17, what tyre size are you on currently?

 

[p@blo]

The Pilot sports cup only come in certain sizes tho which is a shame! Not to mention they aren'ty cheap!

Mega tyre tho.

How do they wear? Seem firmer than a 888.

 

[Chip-mk1]

How do they wear? Seem firmer than a 888.

They wear slower than the 888 by quite a margin and yet seem to manage to offer the same levels of grip IME

 

[p@blo]

They wear slower than the 888 by quite a margin and yet seem to manage to offer the same levels of grip IME

Only seem to hear good things about them.

They still running them on the ginetta juniors?

 

[Advikaz]

215/45 R17's on mine mate.

Echoing what Chip says, they don't wear as quickly but then they are more expensive.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Only seem to hear good things about them.

They still running them on the ginetta juniors?

Not sure TBH mate, I know they were as it was where I was getting a lot of mine from,but the guy I used isnt doing them anymore