Hunting On Idle, Difficult To Start - Since Belts Changed PH1 172

[Faxo]

Ooookay, so I did the belts on my PH1 and checked and rechecked the timing - all good

Build it up and it won't start, unless I press the accelerator

Got it going, and all seemed well (ran it for about 30 secs) so turned it off and left it for a week

Come to it tonight, and its hunting - revving up and down slightly and vibrating like a missfire, but it isn't a missfire!

It also eventually stalls, and won't restart unless I blip the throttle

I was thinking air leak, as I've jacked the engine up and down doing the belts, but can't see anything

Ive had the throttle body off, and had the plugs off a few sensors etc but all these are reconnected now

Few people have mentioned IAC valve, and also throttle body?

Anyone? I'm 99% sure the timing is ok

 

[Poopensharten]

TDC sensor? Earth strap?

 

[Faxo]

You mean the cam position sensor?

I replaced the dephaser, and had both pulleys loose to aid with belt fitting - there was no woodruff key so not sure they could be out of sync? Cams were obv locked

 

[ben lee]

is that battery flat or low on power?

 

[Poopensharten]

Thinking about it, you wouldn't have been near the tdc sensor would you?

You mentioned the idle control valve, have you had it off? When was the TB last cleaned?

 

[MG cup]

Did you use pulley the locking tool to torque the dephaser and inlet pulley?

 

[ben lee]

did it run ok after the belts ect was changed?

 

[Faxo]

.

 

[Faxo]

Did you use pulley the locking tool to torque the dephaser and inlet pulley?

Torqued them, but didn't lock them

did it run ok after the belts ect was changed?

Didnt really run it as airbox was off, but was difficult to start unless throttle was blipped

 

[MG cup]

Airbox off won't make any difference. If you done the pulleys upto the correct torque then I don't see how you done it without the pulley locking tool and not bucking your horseshoe.

Have you timed it, removed tools, spun it a few times, put in tools again? Also made sure your not in the crank web balancing holes?

 

[Russ_16v]

Sounds like the timing might be slightly off still dude - tools in, check, spin engine round, tools in again - repeat 4 or 5 times to be 100%

 

[Faxo]

Airbox off won't make any difference. If you done the pulleys upto the correct torque then I don't see how you done it without the pulley locking tool and not bucking your horseshoe.

Have you timed it, removed tools, spun it a few times, put in tools again? Also made sure your not in the crank web balancing holes?

Horseshoe is a genuine one, so quite thick and definately not bent

Was still tight getting it into the grooves once the engine was turned, suggesting the ends of the cams aren't damaged

Sounds like the timing might be slightly off still dude - tools in, check, spin engine round, tools in again - repeat 4 or 5 times to be 100%

Did this, which makes me think its not a timing issue - it will idle and I always thought a tooth out and it'll run, but not idle

Searching show a lot of people mentioning the cam locking tool, but this is to stop the horse shoe bending, which mine didn'tdidn't

 

[MG cup]

It's also to stop the pulley sliding too with the friction of the bolt/stud torqueing.

 

[Faxo]

It's also to stop the pulley sliding too with the friction of the bolt/stud torqueing.

Ok so the pulleys are timed too?

Im lost, I locked the cams and the crank, slackened the pulleys, old belt off, new belt on, tensioned, torqued the pulleys and crank

Do the ex and inlet pulleys have timing mark, even though they're free floating and the cams are locked?

 

[MG cup]

They don't have marks as such, the crank or cams don't have a woodruff key/timing marks on the pulleys on the F4R in the clio's.

Basic instructions.

1. Time the engine via crank pin and cam horseshoe with the pulleys slack.
2. Remove old, fit new with tensioner etc and tension belt.
3. Nip up cam pulleys
4. Spin engine a few times and re-fit timing tools to double check.
5. Fit pulley locking tool and torque them down when your sure the timing is right.
6. Remove all tools and repeat step 4

You may have to slacken crank pulley bolt too in order to tension belt, obviously nip that up after step 2 prior to doing step 4.

Cam and crank pulley bolt/nut should be replaced as per instructions iirc.

 

[MG cup]

Basically if your timing tools are going in fairly easy and the crank timing pin isn't in the crank web balancing holes, there's 4 points iirc that pin 'CAN' go in but obviously one to get it right.

 

[Sam@NP]

Always check the crank is locked correctly by checking the flywheel marks.

 

[Faxo]

Ok cool

yea crank was fully locked in the 'proper' hole, and once engine was turned a few times I rechecked and the cam tool was really snug, as suggested in other threads

Im pretty convinced its a TB issue, I've taken it off to strip and clean tomorrow - fingers crossed

 

[MG cup]

Always check the crank is locked correctly by checking the flywheel marks.

At the CPS area? TDC mark on the flywheel, is there?

 

[Grier]

TB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Faxo]

Is that a 'TB what, are you mad'!!

Or a 'TB definately'!!! ?

 

[MG cup]

Is that a 'TB what, are you mad'!!

Or a 'TB definately'!!! ?

Having not worked on a PH1 I'm not 100% on the setup but I know its a mechanical TB with the ICV on the manifold so I can't see it being the TB tbh unless the TPS is playing up but that will usually give high idle, revving up and down etc. Have you cleaned out the ICV and associated pipework with brake cleaner and the electrical connections with WD40?

 

[Faxo]

Think I've sussed it

As mentioned on this thread I think, there's more that one place the crank locking tool will located....

Yep, somehow I had it just before it should be, checked cam timing and its miles out

Taken plugs out, and ill try and bore scope it tomorrow to see if there's any damage - fingers crossed there isn't as it runs but misfires etc, the plugs are soaked in unburnt petrol so hope it's just that

Gonna goto either GSF or Renault tomorrow and order the pulley locking tool tomorrow, anyone now how much?

Everybody pray for me lol

 

[The Fatty]

Good luck getting it fixed, but this is a prime example why you take it to a specialist to do this level of work. The F4R is just not friendly! lol.

 

[Poopensharten]

Good luck getting it fixed, but this is a prime example why you take it to a specialist to do this level of work. The F4R is just not friendly! lol.

The specialist's had to be shown at some point aswell.

Good work giving it a bash yourself!

 

[Faxo]

Actually scrap that last post!

Wasnt happy with how far the timing was out, thought surely it wouldn't run...

So just been and rechecked, and I did have the crank locked in the right place, the horseshoe has bent and the exhaust cam is a tooth out!

Whos gonna be the first to say 'I told you so'..

Currently waiting on a mate to ask a mate who works at Renault if I can borrow their tools for a few hours

 

[Russ_16v]

Lol thought so - it's very easy to time it right, then after a few rotations for it to be out again.

I'm sure there won't be any damage mate, get the proper tools time it up again and I am sure it will be fine

 

[The Fatty]

well done for being man enough to admit that Hopefully the timing wasn't that far out and you haven't bent any valves! :fingerscrossed:

 

[Faxo]

Okay so today I got hold of the tools, 'borrowed' from Renault

I asked for them all, but the tech said they never loosen the cams and so didnt have the pulley locking tool - arrrrgh!!

I borrowed the horseshoe anyway as been told they're the strongest ones

The last time I had It running it was misfiring really bad

I realigned the cams with the belt still on, which was much easier than I thought, and using a pulley holding tool we have at work, torqued the pulleys - it was a nervous few minutes!

i then did the checks, all lined ups again and so rebuilt

Ive bought some new plugs, the proper Renault £1,000,000 jobbies, so fitted these while rebuilding

Then, the moment of truth - starts 1st but is still missfiring really bad, nooooo

Idles fine, apart from the missfire obv, so was just about stop and wait till I had a compression tester, but I had one last look round

Just noticed my plug leads didnt look right - rearranged them, started it aaand

SHES FIXED!! Idles lovely, revs lovely, and doesn't cut out

Phew....

 

[Poopensharten]

Happy days mate!