Bloody turbo on bloddy F7P

[Blue Mule]

Dammit!

Im pissed cos I dont know where can I find reasonable advices about turbo upgrade the F7P engine...

I have a guy who makes ECUs, probably we can settle for a decent throttle body system and fully digital injection...

And I have friends who make flanges, pipes...

So Im asking - why does it seem so risky business? What about the gearbox (and Im not talking about clicking )? Man...this is one true dilemma

 

[Smokey]

Mate give BBpt a call, someone on here has just had his valver Turbod by them!!

 

[Blue Mule]

No, I cant give them a call because they dont run information for free and Im like 4000 miles away...

I need some DIY advices, regardless will it blow up the same day or not

 

[Tom_16v]

Arent a couple of people on here doing there own DIY conversions?

 

[Dean]

red 16 might help

 

[BenR]

what do you want to know.....you havent asked any questions!

 

[Dean]

lol

ok ben i want to know how i go about turboing my valver? hows that!

 

[edde]

Its a risky business as so few people have done it.

Are you going to just put a bigger head gasget on it or do a proper job and get low compression pistons and all.

So few cars you hear of are aftermarket tuboed on small CC engine so its seen as risky as theres so little info out there

The gearbox is good for 240lb torque aparently but u will need a bigger clutch or that. But a new box if ya break it shouldnt be to much.

The problem with turboing the engine is decideing how much risk and money you want to spend are you going to run at 1 bar at 300hp or .5bar about 225hp. Are you going to run a completly rebuilt racing spec engine or just bigger gasget and risk blowing the engine up.

EDD

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by Dean on 08 November 2003


lol

ok ben i want to know how i go about turboing my valver? hows that!

Jesus....bit of a generalised question........lol

If your planning on running 4-6psi, simple plumbing, intercooler, suitable fueling mods are all you essentially need. Your mates can all make your flanges for the inlet TB seal and the exhaust manifold/turbo.

Seriously, ask a question............

 

[MaLicE]

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 08 November 2003

Quote: Originally posted by Dean on 08 November 2003


lol

ok ben i want to know how i go about turboing my valver? hows that!

Seriously, ask a question............

Why is the sky blue ?

 

[BenR]

Rayleigh Scattering where light wavelengths (shorter) are absorbed by gas in the atmosphere and radiated back out. Longer wavelengths (red/yellow) tend not to get absorbed by small gas molecules so the radiated blue light is what you see.

 

[MaLicE]

lol told me didnt u

 

[BenR]

hehehehe

 

[Blue Mule]

@ BenR; ok, here are the details

Lets say we have a F7P engine on the table, ready for operation.

1. I dont want to lower the compression just by putting few gaskets more, there has to be another approach to solve that one.
2. We put tottaly changed injection with throttle body...can the fuel pump supply me? What are my alternatives, except buying everything from K-Tec...theres gotta be some Renault with a decent fuel pump that fits F7P...
3. Pistons should cope with under 1 bars, after all, I dont plan to rev my car at 6500 all the freaking time
4. Since we have totally reprogrammed ECU, we will have nice overboost control with 0,5 (city lad) 0,6 (daily geezer) 0,8 (that Nova just passed me!) 1,0 (who are we racing today?) 1,2 (cheers mates! its drag day!) and 1,5 (say F7P, would you like to blow up today?) bar switch...nice.
5. How will the crankshaft handle it?
6. And what about that uprated clutch, where can I get it?
7. If we become rich, can we count on forged K-Tec pistons?
8. Intercooler...can I strip it from a lorry...or maybe if Im lucky, some SAAB Aero 9000 or similar?


Hope this breaks out in a great turbo discussion!

 

[Dean]

red 16 is skimming his pistons to lower his compression

ben so why dont u make a turbo kit at a reasonable price

 

[jimbo1]

dish the standard pistons 1mm deep 8mm from the edges. this will be a decent enuff squish band. lowers the compression ratio to about 9::1 with a spesso 1.6mm headgasket. that setup can handle upto 0.9bar. anything more, and u need forged low comp pistons

jimbo

 

[edde]

1.2 bar are you mad the standard engine wont stand up against that or I will be suprised if it does.

1 bar means twice the normal air pressure think about it the engine pistons are now under twice the pressure plus a bit more assuming you are going to increase fueling.

Any intercooler is good one intercooler does the same job as another its there efficiency which is important which is almost directly realted to its volume.

If you dont want to lower the compression ratio by bigger gasgets then you can

Skim the pistons

Have new conrods built

Have a new crank built

Get the head bored out

Get a bigger block made

The pump is good for 250Hp I believe but BenR will know the exact numbers.

However dont skimp on the fuel pump CB1A wrecked two of his pistons in the V6 as the fuel pump couldnt stand up to the increased fuel flow demands

Any pump should be ok from any car so long as its a powerful engine ie is designed for high flow rates.

The crank wont be massivly stong as the 2 liter engine (the F7P is the 1.8 isnt it?) used the 1.9 diesel crank which soul hold back the power better as its designed to be stronger built to take diesel torque levels.

The R5 GTT clutch will fit I belive its £60 ish from europarts and no dought some other companies who specialise in Renaults.

If we become rich why not get some japanese pistons made up they seem to be experts in making massive powered cars.

Alternitivly there is a company in Britain down south somewhere which is renouned to make very strong pistons they make them for US performance cars as there the best availiable.

1.5 Bar on stock internals with mo CC mods your engine wont even make it for 1 second Id love to see it though your asking the engine to stand up to about 2.5 times the normal presure.

EDD

 

[Blue Mule]

Have new conrods built

Have a new crank built

Get a bigger block made



WHO in the name od christ will do that for me???????????????

 

[cliokongen]

Special pistons: http://www.ariaspistons.com/http://www.ariaspistons.com/ they make what ever you would like!!!

Crank: http://www.farndon.com/http://www.farndon.com/ Great service!!!

Recommended: http://www.arp-bolts.com/http://www.arp-bolts.com/

Special head gaskets: http://www.mecaparts.com/http://www.mecaparts.com/

Michael

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by Blue Mule on 08 November 2003

Have new conrods built

Have a new crank built

Get a bigger block made




WHO in the name od christ will do that for me???????????????

You asked how else to lower compression there some options.

Seems like you can get them done though.

EDD

 

[BenR]

Most of the questions have been answered.

BUt the boost levels your planning to run is crazy on near std internals.

Lowering compression by skimming the pistons needs to be monotored, they dont have the thickest piston crowns and if your dynamic CR or fueling, EGTs get too high you could quite easily melt a hole, damage a land on the inlet side.

WHy change the inlet manifold and TB? Your running forced induction, there is no real need.

Fuel pump is fine for, IIRC, 220bhp/hr........80ltr an hr pump i think. But ren have a 130 ltr/hr pump.

Reconsider your boost plans for std internals, if your planing to run 1.5bar then i would invest in forged parts.

The crank is fine.

Pistons, JE in america have EXCELLENT quality pistons as their quality control is very very strict.

Intercooler, anything that fits, up to you and your budget.

There are a whole lot of factors to consider, but i have no idea how much power you want or how much you intend to spend. But for big boost applications you wont want to reply on skimmed pistons and thick gaskets.

 

[MAXIBOY]

turbos as far as i know no problems with block crank or rods up to about 500bhp bb performance sell low comp pistons for around 500 notes easier to turbo standard manifold fitted with uprated injectors any thing over 200ft/lb needs uprated clutch and gearbox easier to run charge cooler bb performance do a kit not sure which bits they sell separate

 

[Bryan]

BB sell all of their bits separate

i have a price list here if anyone wants any information

alternatively contact them at enquiries@bbperformancetuning.co.uk and ask for an information pack on the clio 1.8 16v

 

[Blue Mule]

@ Ben;

What I plan to do with F7P is a low pressure turbo, but since I would like to run a drag race competitions few times a year, I would like to be shure that my engine will not blow up on 200 m of a drag-strip. So, I plan to use 0,6 or 0,7 boost for day-to-day drive. Fastchip claims that theirs F7P Turbo runned 40,000 km on 0,9 (220 or 240 bhp output) without any problems...I know that those figures are suspicious, but then again, what use is for them to lie about it...

What about ignition, do I go for something Maerlli or standard will be fine?

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by Blue Mule on 09 November 2003


@ Ben;

What I plan to do with F7P is a low pressure turbo, but since I would like to run a drag race competitions few times a year, I would like to be shure that my engine will not blow up on 200 m of a drag-strip. So, I plan to use 0,6 or 0,7 boost for day-to-day drive. Fastchip claims that theirs F7P Turbo runned 40,000 km on 0,9 (220 or 240 bhp output) without any problems...I know that those figures are suspicious, but then again, what use is for them to lie about it...

What about ignition, do I go for something Maerlli or standard will be fine?

At 0.5 - 0.6 bar your already running 7-8psi which is quite high for a low pressure system and i wouldnt go near 1bar without knowing what dynamic ratios you are going to run and what a dished std piston can take.

i have no idea what your std parts will be up to, rods and crank should be perfectly fine, its just the pistons i would worry about. Willy pistons on 16V rods might lower the CR too much, but youll have to look into it as i have no bottom end components to check.

the ignition system is fine, but the timing will need to be sorted. I dunno what ECU fastchip use to make their system boost aware, but youll need to sort timing as not to let EGTs get too high. detonation, well thats another matter.

 

[MAXIBOY]

fast chip make the chips for bb turbo conversion they only run 200 on the low boost conversion chipping the standard ecu and using standard ignition components

 

[BenS_172]

Chet has low comp pistons for sale in the for sale forum.

 

[Soneji]

Yeah I was just going to say that, have a word with him hes been turboing his 19 valver for what seems like for ever...

 

[Ben P]

So fastchip dont do their own conversion anymore?

They just sell their stuff through BB who wack on a hefty profit?

OK maybe oversimplifying things but still...



(Just noticed WOO HOO! 1000 posts)

 

[BenS_172]

Indeed Ben, I dont think you can deal with Fastchip direct anymore, Chet was mentioning something about it, Chet if you read this - Get back to it!

 

[Hollister]

Jesus, it would be easier to get a turbo engine out of another car and make a custom bellhousing and engine mounts wouldnt it.



At least then it would blow itself to bits at the earliest opportunity

 

[rsi turbo]

ive just fitted a sapphire coz intercooler below the front number plate when its been getting a thrapping it is hot on the inlet end tank the first inch or two of the core is warm the middle is cold and the oulet end tank is barly touchable cause its so cold. as ben said the fuel pupm on the valver should be ok for a small power increase i had to fit a valver pump in ours cause the rsi pump is only good for half the flow rate (not pressure) a turbo engine needs. dont forget if you are going for mega power you need to spec the turbo cams head flow injectors and mapping of the ecu to all work together. anyone can bolt on a turbo but as Ben is going about things the right way his will work where as others wouldnt.

 

[16 valver]

Quote: Originally posted by Blue Mule on 09 November 2003


@ Ben;

What I plan to do with F7P is a low pressure turbo, but since I would like to run a drag race competitions few times a year, I would like to be shure that my engine will not blow up on 200 m of a drag-strip. So, I plan to use 0,6 or 0,7 boost for day-to-day drive. Fastchip claims that theirs F7P Turbo runned 40,000 km on 0,9 (220 or 240 bhp output) without any problems...I know that those figures are suspicious, but then again, what use is for them to lie about it...

What about ignition, do I go for something Maerlli or standard will be fine?

The F7P Fastchip high boost engine is running at about 1 bar on low pressure pistons!

The performance figures are measured at the wheels, so that makes 240 bhp and 310 Nm torque @ the wheels! That would be about 300 bhp and 400 Nm torque at the flywheel.

I dont know what kind of gearbox they are using, but a JC 5 cant handle that torque at all!

 

[R1916V]

Errrhh??

Just started reading this post even thought its a long time since some1 last posted. JC5 is what they are running on the fastchip turbo 19.

They run 1,1 bar pressure on low comp pistons. Custom clutch and a lot of other mods. The car has done 40.000 miles only on the normal service. So the conversion works fine. Just has to be made for what you want. If you want max power/torque then do it right the first time. Take the time it takes and do it properly. Scim the pistons if your going for up to 0,8 bar 220-240 bhp (190-200 @wheels).

I cant decide if im doing the scim or the low comp. solution. Think its gonna be the low comp cuz im gonna run 402 next summer at competitions

 

[16 valver]

Quote: Originally posted by R1916V on 01 June 2004

Errrhh??

Just started reading this post even thought its a long time since some1 last posted. JC5 is what they are running on the fastchip turbo 19.

They run 1,1 bar pressure on low comp pistons. Custom clutch and a lot of other mods. The car has done 40.000 miles only on the normal service. So the conversion works fine. Just has to be made for what you want. If you want max power/torque then do it right the first time. Take the time it takes and do it properly. Scim the pistons if your going for up to 0,8 bar 220-240 bhp (190-200 @wheels).

I cant decide if im doing the scim or the low comp. solution. Think its gonna be the low comp cuz im gonna run 402 next summer at competitions

Actually that R19 has still got the standard JB 3 gearbox in it and has done 40.000 kms. At least thats what Henk told me a few weeks ago when I was there.

 

[R1916V]

My bad.. was km i meant. Hmm sure its the standard JB3 box... :| impressiv. Since i was told it cant even compete on the willy. Well well sounds like a good combo they have. Had a chat with Henke a while back.