Dci tuning thread

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Cheers for the offer tunst but I've already got one knocking about

tuutur , yeah I'll have to have it mapped again to see what I does.
I still think the HP pumps to weak even when being forced fed

think ant ran a uprated clutch.
I'd have a new OE Valeo in mine then changed it on a uprated one, £500's worth. Heavy old f**ker

 

[Tunst]

No worries!

Im tempted by the cheap dci100.. It just worris me as to why its so cheap.. Plus te new head and gasket..

 

[Tutuur]

I hope we'll find out mate! Would be great when dieselbob reports back!

How much torque did yours run with the 143bhp?

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

256NM the guy said those injectors could of fueled more but the pump couldn't

he expected around 300Nm with a good fuel set up

it was nippy but I killed the bottom end with the wrong fuel to boost ratio lol

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

No worries!

Im tempted by the cheap dci100.. It just worris me as to why its so cheap.. Plus te new head and gasket..

What puts me off is it's had a head and gasket. Dci engines NEVER need a gasket unless cooked with no coolant

 

[sburrell93]

Just stumbled across this on the internet, dunno if it's any use!
http://www.fordwiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Common_Rail_Injector_Types

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Interesting read that!

i can't use the 172 lift pump in mine I just remember all the hassle of getting the lock ring to fit I had. Fred ended up doing it and it almost defeated him

plus my sender unit loom is only 2 wires not 3

 

[Scrooge]

They're proper proper proper proper c***s!!!

 

[Dan@SJM]

Interesting read that!

i can't use the 172 lift pump in mine I just remember all the hassle of getting the lock ring to fit I had. Fred ended up doing it and it almost defeated him

plus my sender unit loom is only 2 wires not 3

Just fit an inline pump like an 044

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

They're proper proper proper proper c**ts!!!

I know that, fred spent ages on mine. 3 different lock rings and non of them went on with the proper tool.

lucky enough freds done that many he knows the trick

diesel just makes it worse being like a lube

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Just fit an inline pump like an 044

ive got to think this one through, the dci is a vacuum feed system, if I put a force fed pump on it, its going to reach the filter and f**k off back down the return line. ( and not hold the pressure ) or will it?

not had enough sleep so my brains not working lol

 

[Tutuur]

Hhmmm you may have a point there, will pop the bonnet later today to check...

 

[Dan@SJM]

Fit it between the pump and filter. Tbh a facet would be more suited.

 

[Tutuur]

The question is, will it help/work.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Fit it between the pump and filter. Tbh a facet would be more suited.

a facet? Eh

Edit found what you ment, i might put a non return valve in aswell to stop leak

 

[sburrell93]

Say this all went to plan and there was a method found to get 150-160hp out these engines, are the gearboxes not just going to sh*t themselves at that kind of power/torque?

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Say this all went to plan and there was a method found to get 150-160hp out these engines, are the gearboxes not just going to sh*t themselves at that kind of power/torque?

The DCI 80 has a jc5 box. It should handle it, the standard clutch won't. Dunno what the 100's run

 

[sburrell93]

Ah yeah, I was forgetting the 80's had those boxes. The 100 is the jr5, think they're limited to around 270nm and i'm sure that can be achieved on a standard map

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

The specs are on cliodci.net afaik

Lets say worst case , it destroys the jr5 ( Altho I'm sure it'll be stronger than the jc5 or why was it only put into100's.... )

Pressuming the jc5 handles it, it's sshould cross fit.

The 100's also dual mass? Or is that the 106 DCI in the mk3

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

http://www.uas-bg.com/meganii/eng/6029A.pdf

Go down to section 21A

I think the gearing is going to be very short pushing 250-280 nm through it

 

[Tutuur]

One thing i do wonder though, torque is always said to be the cause of breaking gearboxes.
however i had a 2.0 turbo with unknown torque but it broke traction in second and occasionally in 3rd.

if the torque from a diesel is higher but doesn't break traction, isn't more hp with less torque more hard on the box?

As obviously when it comes to the point of breaking traction theres more strain on the gearbox right?

 

[sburrell93]

The specs are on cliodci.net afaik

Lets say worst case , it destroys the jr5 ( Altho I'm sure it'll be stronger than the jc5 or why was it only put into100's.... )

Pressuming the jc5 handles it, it's sshould cross fit.

The 100's also dual mass? Or is that the 106 DCI in the mk3

I think the jr5 was the only box that would fit the 100. I'm not sure if the block is slightly different due to having a stronger crank or whatever, but iirc the jc5 doesn't fit it.

And I'm pretty sure they're still a solid flywheel, or at least I hope so as my clutch is needing done soonish.

 

[sburrell93]

One thing i do wonder though, torque is always said to be the cause of breaking gearboxes.
however i had a 2.0 turbo with unknown torque but it broke traction in second and occasionally in 3rd.

if the torque from a diesel is higher but doesn't break traction, isn't more hp with less torque more hard on the box?

As obviously when it comes to the point of breaking traction theres more strain on the gearbox right?

Torque is said to be the cause of breaking gearboxes because its the only physical force that can be measured from a car engine. Hp is worked out from torque at any given rpm. This is the reason petrol engines have more hp than torque. They rev higher so they can produce more power from a lower amount of torque.

I'd agree with your last point though, at the moment before the wheels break traction that's when the forces are highest in the gearbox.

 

[Tutuur]

I know how power/torque works but as mentioned my guess is a petrol turbo'ed engine is harder on the box than a dci.

Yes the 100 block is different, it has the same mounting point layout as the tl4 equipped engines.
I think a dual mass is only fitted to tl4 equipped engines.

jr5 doesn't have a open diff like the jb/jc's too so i guess they'll be stronger from that point of view. The gears itself are probably the same...

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

The only way to find out is by experimenting. If it kills my box then so be it, jc5s are like skittles on here. Jr5s are abit harder to get hold of, unless you pinch one from an megane or laguna.

irrcc if I go any higher than 260nm the diff circlip is going to spit itself out, but then again I haven't got enough revs like an f4r to do that.

imo Renault have a torque limit in the map for 260-270nm on both boxes. As that's what they consider ' safe '
if I think right, I think me maybe able to push 300-320 tops before having any real big effects on the box
the casing will be first to let go imo

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Petrol engines would put more strain on the box being more high reved.
Diesels have low rev long gears thus should be able to handle more

we need to be kicking out around 7k Rpm with 300nm torque to even start destroying gears.

Everyone that's had a power mapped 80/100 found the clutch started to slip near 130 hp presumably around 220-230nm torque

 

[sburrell93]

I wish I had the same freedom to tune my car and not worry about breaking anything but it's my daily for work atm, and my box is already making a whine under acceleration at about 70mph which makes me think it'll need replacing soon!

If the boxes can handle 300nm though I might get it replaced and start trialling some of this tuning, just need to find myself a mapper who'll accept crates of beer as payment...

More on topic, I always thought it was the lower end torque that killed boxes? Is there that much of a difference between a diesel revving to 4 or 5k and a petrol going to 7k?

 

[Tutuur]

Hms, remapped dci's go more to 270nm. 200nm is standard for the 100.

afaik boxes break when they're abused, with the linear power of the dci and day to day driving i don't think the problem will be that big.

More concerned bout the clutch though. 172 clutches are known to hold 300nm so my guess is a healthy dci clutch should hold that too.

i have a single mass flywheel and clio helix cover on the way though and going to try to fit the pressure plate to the dci flywheel.

if we try to reach 140-150bhp torque will most definately be north of 300nm

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Petrol tend to make low end torque and high end dependant on application and revs. Diesel spread there's out over the revs. Say yours is putting out 180nm max at 2000rmp. It'll hold it til around 3600 and then drop off to the point your at 5k revs with nothing more to give

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Hms, remapped dci's go more to 270nm. 200nm is standard for the 100.

afaik boxes break when they're abused, with the linear power of the dci and day to day driving i don't think the problem will be that big.

More concerned bout the clutch though. 172 clutches are known to hold 300nm so my guess is a healthy dci clutch should hold that too.

i have a single mass flywheel and clio helix cover on the way though and going to try to fit the pressure plate to the dci flywheel.

if we try to reach 140-150bhp torque will most definately be north of 300nm

I do remember a thread on dci.net that someone's brand new OE spec clutch lasted 18,000 miles on a mapped 100.
Which if you think of it, isn't to bad. Probs would last longer if not abused

 

[Tutuur]

I disagree on that statement, torque will always have a peak and then drop of as a result of revs. That's just laws of physics.

However it is possible to map out the torque peak to prevent gearbox/clutch breakage and then indeed torque could be flat from 2000-3600.

 

[Tutuur]

Here is a nice thread of a fiesta 1.6tdci on passionford:

http://www.passionford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=432786&styleid=5

made 156bhp and 260lb/ft with just basic mods, should be possible with a dci too when the fuel system is sufficient enough.

 

[Tutuur]

Hms, did you just put in the crdi injectors and drove with it was a remap neccesarily?

i read a lot of vw guys just fit bigger nozzles without a remap...

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

I had it mapped as the idle was like a bomb going off in each cylinder.

Was okay when revved. BUT I'm sceptical that the remap was needed as that engine had an issue I didn't know till the boost was cranked up.

If i tried it again it would probs be okay. I know the spray pattern is said to be ever so slightly different

Is that pump he's using a Siemens / Bosch tho?

I wonder if it's to hard to convert to Bosch fuel management ....

 

[Tutuur]

Well he said he has to use standalone management because of it so i don't think it's possible.

imo if we find out a pump swap or lift pump won't work, fitting a smaller pulley is the easiest way. Only downside i can think of is the pump will wear faster.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Fuel cooler , I wondered why the Citroen c3 HDI and put HDI had a little fuel rad near the tank.

Explained in this quote

After taking an age to setup the vnt which was causing boost fluctuations final power figure ended up ss 230hp & 310fbt, but car is off the road due to fuel return pipe bursting Due to the high pressure fuel pump fuel can get quite hot most diesels 110hp upwards come with a fuel cooler standard but not a fiesta diesel because they are only 90hp 150fbt standard .... I have to invest in a fuel cooler of sorts.

 

[Tutuur]

I think it's only needed when you go real far but every little bit helps ofcourse.

although as long as we don't ramp up the fuel pressure it won't get hotter...

 

[welshname]

I need to get out of this thread. It's making me want to get a DCi and start playing.

 

[MG cup]

I just had a quick read through this, nice to see people tinkering with them but unless your running standalone you are barking up the wrong tree I would say, I can't see the pumps just swapping over.

I worked as a Diesel injection engineer in the past, not too much on the Delphi common rail stuff mind you but its all coded to the ecu iirc. Ramming fuel up the HP pumps arse with an in tank pump won't do anything, the pumps are designed for a certain feed pressure and the only thing that will change the output pressure is the metering valve.

Why don't you just do the basics, cooler air into the engine and more of it so you have a need for more fuel, free flowing exhaust, DCI 100 injectors and a remap?

 

[Tutuur]

Because we want more then that, isn't that clear?

the thing is, with only basic mods these engines should be capable of producing much more power and retaining awesome mpg when cruising. So why wouldn't we?

as you're a diesel engineer: how would you think we could improve the pumps flow without too much hassle?