RS - Feel the Need

[Tez.]

My mums just got rid of her 1.0 eco sport she had for 2 years .

I'd give it a 4/10 as a run around . Plus a oil leak out the back of the head that ford never fixed

Over the 2 years I'd say it's dropped about 2ltrs of oil on her drive . Which is shocking, considering my Clio ( owned it for 15 years so far) has never dropped anything.

 

[Jaff.]

Ford dealers will know there's a leak and where it's come from, Ford UK won't know why but will be lobbying Germany like mad, Ford Powertrain will be delving through test archives and Ford's Quality/Supplier Assistance team will be turning over every stone from the consistency of a third-world tin mine to whether the bloke assembling the head bothers to wear the "correct" type of glove or follows whatever procedure is given to him.

Could relatively easily be something missed in testing. How do you squeeze 10 years and 100k mileage into a 2 year development period? Generally you run it as close to non stop as possible. That said climatic chambers and in-market testing in very cold places do exist but the sample size is relatively small. Could just as easily be stacks of evidence saying the design is OK and it's just a manufacturing process or individual batch that's subject to more variation than was expected/acceptable.

Also unless it massively inconveniences the customer/dealer they'll replace whatever is cheapest overall including labour and what has the least engineering/commercial risk. If you fit a new sealed engine problem solved and the money is eventually recovered from the engine supplier who warranties the assembly, if you start taking it apart and replacing odd bits then Ford vs the Dealership have a big argument as to who pays when it throws a rod two years later.

P.s. gloves were great.

This car hasn’t done 100k though, not even close, neither have any of the others.

Surely if this was a fundamental design problem it would have been picked up in testing. They should easily cover 10k of normal day to day stuff during testing surely?

I’m half glad I cancelled my order of one now

 

[Matt W]

Out of interest Mark, did you watch the youtube series by ford on the build up to the RS launch?
I did, and it came across like they rushed the sign off of the car...

 

[Steven103]

I’m not excusing it or saying it’s caused by X or Y, just there’s far more opportunities for issues to slip through the net than you’d like to think.

To compress a lifetime of use into a short test period you inevitably skip lots of things that real people do. Imagine if Mark’s short journey heat cycle then leaving it overnight hypothesis is correct but the problem happened at 36k/3 years old. For Ford to have tested it to exact real world MarkCup conditions the car’s delivery date would’ve been 2020 lol. That 10 year corrosion warranty? Better start testing the 2027 clio RS now :wink:

Glad to see you’re not letting it get to you!

 

[Steven103]

Sorry that’s a rubbish reply, didn’t word it well and can’t edit now.

Real world testing exactly as people use cars takes too long. Stuff that’s deemed a waste of time (e.g. letting an engine cool naturally overnight) is removed from the test procedure. Even though it’s never been a problem before, maybe a weird design, material or process qwerk means it’s a problem now.

Another thought - to make stuff cheap you make it in bulk. For low volume stuff like an RS suppliers often whack out a few months supply of parts in one day. If you have a dodgy batch you’ve f***** all of your cars lol. Whereas a dodgy batch of 1.6 head gaskets might only effect 1% of cars built that year...

 

[gambit]

Bad news and sorry to hear! Maybe the redesigned headgaskets with 14mm ARP headstud bolts to hold it all down ? Are the heads lifting?

 

[MarkCup]

Out of interest Mark, did you watch the youtube series by ford on the build up to the RS launch?
I did, and it came across like they rushed the sign off of the car...

I did. all of them, several times all the way through. Yes it did seem rushed...very apparent I think from the fact that at the global launch the car they had Ken Block yo drifting about in was wrapped in camo and sporting a front bumper from what looked to be a Focus Titanium.

Bad news and sorry to hear! Maybe the redesigned headgaskets with 14mm ARP headstud bolts to hold it all down ? Are the heads lifting?

I'v never heard of that happening (and I'm not sure what it means either LOL).

 

[david hodson]

I thought this engine was derivative of the mazda mps engine and that was a fairly robust unit?
Look what happened to porsche with the dodgy centre bearings on the engine and the failures and re calls ,so happens to the best of them also

 

[Mr R.]

I did. all of them, several times all the way through. Yes it did seem rushed...very apparent I think from the fact that at the global launch the car they had Ken Block yo drifting about in was wrapped in camo and sporting a front bumper from what looked to be a Focus Titanium.





I'v never heard of that happening (and I'm not sure what it means either LOL).

He means are the head studs stretching under boost which makes the heads lift.

This isn't the case with your car or any of the other FRS, you'd also get coolant and oil mixing.

It's something that would happen when running more boost than stock.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Cars are recalled all the time and problems slip through the net all the time. While this is a more significant issues than others, no car is perfect. These are incredibly complex machines, so you will never catch every single fault. s**t happens. If they fix it under warranty, who cares?

Mark has the right attitude. The hysteria some are creating is just a bit silly.

 

[The Chubby Pirate]

Cars are recalled all the time and problems slip through the net all the time. While this is a more significant issues than others, no car is perfect. These are incredibly complex machines, so you will never catch every single fault. s**t happens. If they fix it under warranty, who cares?

Mark has the right attitude. The hysteria some are creating is just a bit silly.

I agree with you completley on the fact not all issues will be caught and almost all manufacturers will have a recall at some stage of the proceedings but for the flagship model to be needing an engine is entirely unacceptable.

If i’m spending 35k on a car, i expect recalls to be for software or very minor engine related. Other cars in the same class have managed to churn out performance engines with little drama so Ford have made a c**t of this IMO.

 

[BoatNonce]

I thought this engine was derivative of the mazda mps engine and that was a fairly robust unit?

So robust that if you put your foot down without dropping a couple of gears, it dies.

 

[imprezaworks]

Car makers have problems most of the time, it’s how it’s dealt with imo. Yeah it’s an ass but not a lot you can do to help it.

 

[Sir_Dave]

If i’m spending 35k on a car, i expect recalls to be for software or very minor engine related. Other cars in the same class have managed to churn out performance engines with little drama so Ford have made a c**t of this IMO.

@Danny_172 172 Don't buy an 8V RS3 then.
I essentially sold mine because the valve stem seals failed (blue smoke on cold start) after Le Mans and it took them 3 months (September) to diagnose the issue & replace the part. When i got it back i was soo f*cked off that i sold it, on the basis that it only had 9 months warranty left & some utter numpty had had the engine/gearbox out, i simply didnt trust the car, or the dealer network anymore.
The way Ford seem to be doing this is a million times better than my experiences with Audi, with one of their flagship cars.

 

[leeds_182]

We’re not talking about a 20 minute air bag recall though on a Saxo though. It’s a new engine on a performance flag ship car that’s going to take weeks.

I think owners have a right to be annoyed when they’ve spent 30k on a car that’s essentially shagged. Plus, most owners will be bored of opening the bonnet every morning to check they’re coolant levels for the rest of their lives because nobody will buy one out of warranty.

But yeah, these things happen.......

 

[Goodj]

How has this impacted the spreadsheet?

 

[The Chubby Pirate]

@Danny_172 172 Don't buy an 8V RS3 then.
I essentially sold mine because the valve stem seals failed (blue smoke on cold start) after Le Mans and it took them 3 months (September) to diagnose the issue & replace the part. When i got it back i was soo f*cked off that i sold it, on the basis that it only had 9 months warranty left & some utter numpty had had the engine/gearbox out, i simply didnt trust the car, or the dealer network anymore.
The way Ford seem to be doing this is a million times better than my experiences with Audi, with one of their flagship cars.

Not a documented common problem though, is it?

 

[leeds_182]

It’s like the 2.5 Impreza sti engine that were proned to headgasket issues. You can now pick these up for a lot less than the older 2 litre ones despite Subaru fixing the problem on the later cars.

IMO it’s not just the inconvenience of having the fix - it’s the concern that it would happen again, possibly after three years ownership, when ford will probably just say it’s tough titty.

 

[_Tom]

As above. It wouldn't phase me if I owned one now, it's when they're 5 years old and out of warranty. Ford seem to handling it well but If the RS gets the image that they're unreliable it may seriously effect their desirability and value in the future.
You may have to rework that spreadsheet..

 

[Jaff.]

Nothing with an RS badge will be worthless.

Even with engine problems they will command some moolah

 

[Gally]

Like more expensive cars don't have issues? Those BMW twin turbo things were failing for fun. As were mass produced 25k Mini Cooper S R56 engines.

 

[_Tom]

Those BMW twin turbo things were failing for fun.

And my point is what's the general consensus when people mention they are looking at them on here?

 

[Sir_Dave]

Not a documented common problem though, is it?

Because they are all still under warranty lol ...
The tech did say it was something he had got quite adept at fixing however 😂
That & the sh1tty mag ride dampers that rattle like they're about to fall off.
Not an issue like the FRS HGF though.

 

[The Chubby Pirate]

This isn’t comparible oor Dave

Don’t dare ruin 5 cylinder Audi day for me!

 

[ForceIndia]

Nice to see it getting sorted. Is the fix simply the gasket Mark?

Wouldn't bother me personally to buy one. I always remember reading about the rigirous testing this one was put through, some were 5,000 miles deep and this never showed up. Guess you can do all the testing you want but in the real world, cold starts, driving etc no one knows.

Not having that. It's the point of testing. The testing regime modern cars go through is designed to be tougher than what most owners would subject a car to.

I imagine it showed up that a small number could be affected, someone crunched the numbers and decided that putting the fix in place for all would be less cost effective than waiting for a small number to go pop and sort those.

Nothing wrong with that approach, and I'd be perfectly happy with a new engine.

 

[Donny_Dog]

I thought this engine was derivative of the mazda mps engine and that was a fairly robust unit?

Yeah. Replaced the chain on mine early this year!
Best watch the coolant now....

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

I think I'd sooner have an engine recall than some of the brake/airbag/other safety related recalls that happen that we never even hear about.

There's no doubting that this is a bit embarrassing for Ford, given the hype surrounding the car and the fact that the 2.3 engine is fairly well-proven, but faults happen. I suspect it's being further magnified by the internet too. Outside of anal-forum-land, I can't imagine most people know or care about it. Ford are fixing the cars, not being a-holes to customers (from what I've heard anyway) so most will get sorted and it will cease to be a problem.

If a few of the numpties with show queens that only do 500 miles a year suffer the failure once the car is long out of warranty, I can't feel too sorry for them. They should have driven the car, not sat in the garage wanking over it. It's a Focus, not a Ferrari.

 

[MarkCup]

How has this impacted the spreadsheet?

I've no idea yet...that'll follow at some point. It is f***ing with my head though.

Nothing with an RS badge will be worthless.

Even with engine problems they will command some moolah

This is what I'm hoping. Especially a one owner standard car that's been documented far more than anyone would ever want to know.

 

[JB21]

What an absolute ball ache, I was well in the RS camp as well for a used hyper hatch but think i'll give them a miss now and look elsewhere as can you imagine this issue out of warranty :weary:

Type R it is then.

 

[leeds_182]

I think I'd sooner have an engine recall than some of the brake/airbag/other safety related recalls that happen that we never even hear about.

There's no doubting that this is a bit embarrassing for Ford, given the hype surrounding the car and the fact that the 2.3 engine is fairly well-proven, but faults happen. I suspect it's being further magnified by the internet too. Outside of anal-forum-land, I can't imagine most people know or care about it. Ford are fixing the cars, not being a-holes to customers (from what I've heard anyway) so most will get sorted and it will cease to be a problem.

If a few of the numpties with show queens that only do 500 miles a year suffer the failure once the car is long out of warranty, I can't feel too sorry for them. They should have driven the car, not sat in the garage wanking over it. It's a Focus, not a Ferrari.

You’d rather have a shagged engine than an air bag light?

 

[leeds_182]

Like more expensive cars don't have issues? Those BMW twin turbo things were failing for fun. As were mass produced 25k Mini Cooper S R56 engines.

I know you like ford but you can’t sugar coat this. It’s a massive f**k up and shouldn’t happen.

That excuse is like spray painting an old school c**k on balls on the PE block and getting caught and then saying ‘little Jonny from year 6 did the pubes and the jizz though miss’.

 

[JamesBryan]

You can just imagine the used car sale ads for these now.

Clios it's 'full service history, cambelt done at 72,000 miles'

Mk3 RS 'full service history, engine replaced at 3000 miles' 😂

 

[Goodj]

I guess if Rover got away with the K-series for, what, nearly 2 decades?

Ford will be able to swallow this one.

 

[boultonn]

You can just imagine the used car sale ads for these now.

Clios it's 'full service history, cambelt done at 72,000 miles'

Mk3 RS 'full service history, engine replaced at 3000, 6000, 9000, 12000 miles' 😂

EFA

 

[ForceIndia]

What an absolute ball ache, I was well in the RS camp as well for a used hyper hatch but think i'll give them a miss now and look elsewhere as can you imagine this issue out of warranty :weary:

Type R it is then.

I'd have the type r anyway tbh. Both stupid looking buses, but there's something about the new type r.

 

[JB21]

I'd have the type r anyway tbh. Both stupid looking buses, but there's something about the new type r.

Cant mistake the new type R that's for sure, whereas the new RS I'm always a bit is it, isn't it...look to similar to an ST for my untrained eyes.

 

[Mr Plums]

What are your plans if the engine goes again in another 5-6 months time Mark?

Time to get rid? Will two new engines effect resale?

 

[mace¬]

Look what happened to porsche with the dodgy centre bearings on the engine and the failures and re calls ,so happens to the best of them also

RIP Paul Walker? Like losing a brother man.

 

[Goodj]

RIP Paul Walker? Like losing a brother man.

Was it the welds on the RS that went?

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

You’d rather have a shagged engine than an air bag light?

I was referring more to this kind of thing, albeit it's a rather extreme example, partly exacerbated by silly Americans who don't know how to drive: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/toyota-unintended-acceleration-has-killed-89/

An engine having a fault is annoying, but s**t happens. It's not going to kill you. Of all the potentially lethal things that could go wrong with a car, this is not the end of the world. Annoying yes, but that's about the sum of it.

I know you like ford but you can’t sugar coat this. It’s a massive f**k up and shouldn’t happen.

It's all well and good saying it shouldn't happen, but it's bound to happen now and again. Given how complicated cars are these days and that about 85 million are sold each year, the fact that there are so few problems is a f**king miracle in reality. Human beings are involved in the design process, so there's bound to be the odd c**k-up sometimes. Mistakes are unavoidable. It's how you deal with them that matters. Affected cars will get new engines, owners will get courtesy cars while they're waiting. Worse things have happened at sea.

As I said before, it's a bit embarrassing for it to happen on a model with such hype surrounding it, but it's hardly worth the sweat some people seem to be getting in over it. Early Ferrari 458s caught fire, so did some Lambos and even some 911s, but they'll still be worth a fortune in the future.