182cup & 172 racecar
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Toastfrenzy's Tin Top, some say...........
- Thread starter Toastfrenzy
- Start date
Ah nice one Sonny, time flys when things start getting booked - best advice I can give if things are getting tight, let the dates slip. Nothing worse than rushing - it costs (trust me, lost engine number 2 due to rushing)!
Thanks Pete, yea I was thinking that, will only commit once 100% certain everything is fine. Im off to Spa for 2 days in October, thats the launch date im hoping for.
You dont fancy Spa with Circuit days?
You dont fancy Spa with Circuit days?
So, a little write up of my day that I spent at the Thruxton Vauxhall VXR Performance drive day.
Started to rain as I drove through the entry gates, no big drama but soon realised that Thruxton is a big power circuit with a lot of the track blind to the driver, some of the blind part also happen to be the fastest sections too.
All booked in met up with Danny Buxton who is to be my 1 to 1 instructor (from Scuderia Vittoria ) and set about the track briefing and what\how I'll be taught. When introducing myself felt a bit of a fraud as left out the racing part - it's a condition of doing these days that it's not to further a racing career etc. Though I did say I'd been to plenty of tracks since starting in 2011, drive a fully stripped out 870 kg (dry) 172 Cup along with Sam and also knew a bit from track day tuition etc but still, sorry if you ever read this Danny or someone mentions me - I think he may know a few form CS as we spoke about the 197 Michelin starter series. Anyway...no way am I the ace driver I like to think I am so didn't feel too bad!
With Danny moderately driving round the track, showing the lines we both comment on how slippy the track actually is - The first couple of laps I did took me an age to remember the track - so left it to Danny to speak and I did what he said - didn't take long 2 - 3 laps and I had the corners saved to memory. Did a 20 min session where I was assessed and instructed. Found the Corsa heavy but fairly rapid, all the driver aids had to be left on ( I knew this so didn't bother asking to turn off) which at times did interfere. If you had too much steering input and booted it..a quick straighten with full throttle resolved that one.
Took a while to master Noble to Village corners but what a feeling using power to get round as opposed to 30% throttle and under steering which leads to more lock and so on - never again will I just cover the throttle, the amount of power I was using to drive round corners was hard to grasp at first but boy it's impressive the way you get pulled round. Church , I was soon told I needed 5th and I guess I could've stopped dabbing just before the turn in...but any way 110 through Church, flat in 5th was ace.
Being so wide the turn in point on some corners (Segrave for one) can be a lot sooner than narrower circuits, turn in, almost straight line the apex under power to the exit. Noble was soon 90 ish turn in no dab....yes!
Having 1 to 1 tuition for 3.5 hours is something I've not experienced before but it's well worth it - learnt loads, far too much to write up here. I did get taught what trail braking actually is and mastered it round most corners, bar one the Club "S" just before the start finish line. I chickened out on braking as late as I needed to, to finish braking having more or less having completed the first part of the "S". Even though Danny said I wouldn't ask\trust you to do it if I didn't think you couldn't, as 60 mtr's the other side of Club is a solid wall, get it wrong it's going to be a big wrong. We're talking I was hard braking from 115 -120mph at the 2nd braking marker , maybe 80mtrs I needed to have gone maybe another 20-30 mtrs....:S. Trying to visualize the distances now, so they may be 10 - 20 out. But still, having faith in what's under you is a good feeling, I may go back to 16" and get some bells and floating discs....!
All in all I covered 135 track miles, used 1 and a half tanks of fuel, one set of tires and drank 2 ltrs of water and had a really good time.
If you every get a chance to do a VXR day - even the hour ride and drives, both are really good value for money.
Some pics;
Briefing
One day Rodney....lol.
This is where the key goes, Danny Buxton 2013.
Some curb....
Finnaly getting some consistancy...
What Danny thought of my driving.
Started to rain as I drove through the entry gates, no big drama but soon realised that Thruxton is a big power circuit with a lot of the track blind to the driver, some of the blind part also happen to be the fastest sections too.
All booked in met up with Danny Buxton who is to be my 1 to 1 instructor (from Scuderia Vittoria ) and set about the track briefing and what\how I'll be taught. When introducing myself felt a bit of a fraud as left out the racing part - it's a condition of doing these days that it's not to further a racing career etc. Though I did say I'd been to plenty of tracks since starting in 2011, drive a fully stripped out 870 kg (dry) 172 Cup along with Sam and also knew a bit from track day tuition etc but still, sorry if you ever read this Danny or someone mentions me - I think he may know a few form CS as we spoke about the 197 Michelin starter series. Anyway...no way am I the ace driver I like to think I am so didn't feel too bad!
With Danny moderately driving round the track, showing the lines we both comment on how slippy the track actually is - The first couple of laps I did took me an age to remember the track - so left it to Danny to speak and I did what he said - didn't take long 2 - 3 laps and I had the corners saved to memory. Did a 20 min session where I was assessed and instructed. Found the Corsa heavy but fairly rapid, all the driver aids had to be left on ( I knew this so didn't bother asking to turn off) which at times did interfere. If you had too much steering input and booted it..a quick straighten with full throttle resolved that one.
Took a while to master Noble to Village corners but what a feeling using power to get round as opposed to 30% throttle and under steering which leads to more lock and so on - never again will I just cover the throttle, the amount of power I was using to drive round corners was hard to grasp at first but boy it's impressive the way you get pulled round. Church , I was soon told I needed 5th and I guess I could've stopped dabbing just before the turn in...but any way 110 through Church, flat in 5th was ace.
Being so wide the turn in point on some corners (Segrave for one) can be a lot sooner than narrower circuits, turn in, almost straight line the apex under power to the exit. Noble was soon 90 ish turn in no dab....yes!
Having 1 to 1 tuition for 3.5 hours is something I've not experienced before but it's well worth it - learnt loads, far too much to write up here. I did get taught what trail braking actually is and mastered it round most corners, bar one the Club "S" just before the start finish line. I chickened out on braking as late as I needed to, to finish braking having more or less having completed the first part of the "S". Even though Danny said I wouldn't ask\trust you to do it if I didn't think you couldn't, as 60 mtr's the other side of Club is a solid wall, get it wrong it's going to be a big wrong. We're talking I was hard braking from 115 -120mph at the 2nd braking marker , maybe 80mtrs I needed to have gone maybe another 20-30 mtrs....:S. Trying to visualize the distances now, so they may be 10 - 20 out. But still, having faith in what's under you is a good feeling, I may go back to 16" and get some bells and floating discs....!
All in all I covered 135 track miles, used 1 and a half tanks of fuel, one set of tires and drank 2 ltrs of water and had a really good time.
If you every get a chance to do a VXR day - even the hour ride and drives, both are really good value for money.
Some pics;
Briefing
One day Rodney....lol.
This is where the key goes, Danny Buxton 2013.
Some curb....
Finnaly getting some consistancy...
What Danny thought of my driving.
Nice one Pete, I have always fancied driving at Thruxton. These days are well worth it imo
Sounds like a good day Pete.
Thruxton is intense.
Thruxton is intense.
Cadwell 24-07-2013 shakedown post re loom and rebuild of engine.
Booked an afternoon half day with Javelin to get us back in the driving seat and to test out\prove all the new bits added to the Cup over the last couple of months. We've been on a few Javelin TD's but found this one quite busy overall, though I guess £79 for an afternoon will always attract plenty of drivers. Been the first and only time that we've had to queue (15 mins) to get out straight after the sighting laps...
Noise test - blimey, don't think i'll be doing any 98 db days from now, forgot to ask the noise tester the actual reading but Sam said it was the nosiest car by far when she was listening and she was in the paddock a fair way back up the hill too. Glad I fitted an intercom!
On the sighting laps noticed a low down hesitancy in the low rev range, mid to high range, up to the moderate speeds of sighting laps fine, loads of power and plenty of grunt to play with, slowing for the right hand hairpin after the halls complex the car struggled to pick up from the low speed. Also noticed the brakes were getting worse, to the point of having to leave a very large gap to the car in front. Carried on as I'd swapped the pads around to even their wear - the piston side always wears more - so put the brake deficiency down to the pads bedding in. Using the intercom, warned Sam about the poor brakes and the low down hesitancy so she could complete her sighting laps - not actually required but completed more for her own piece of mind.
After the sighting laps brakes where as bad as ever, the car wouldn't idle below 2.5k revs and there was a hissing noise in the engine bay. A quick call to Dan 519, with something to try for the hesitancy and us now looking for an air leak we got to work. We found a split in the brake servo pipe, managed to cut the pipe shorter, leaving enough to still be able to connect it to the inlet. With the car now running and revving with no fault, tried the brake pedal - 1000 times better, never actually driven a non assisted braked car so didn't know what was happening to the brakes at all. I'd noticed after finding the split servo pipe that the heat behind the engine was immense, a lot more than before and the the bulk head heat shield went straight down. This was allowing the heat to radiate up and behind the heat shield to where the servo pipe was situated. Simply removed the heat shield and bent the bottom 1\3 back towards the bulkhead which would channel the heat up and in between the inlet and heat shield, it worked as the servo pipe didn't split again.
I drove for a short while to get a better feel for the car but the session was cut short, red flagged we saw far too many of these during the course of the afternoon, also the low down hesitancy was back again. I jumped out remedied the hesitancy and went out on track again, another red flag saw me park up and cool down. The cup was running a fair bit hotter too, both oil and water higher - so more cooling required - nothing too alarming but enough to warrant more cooling.
The short time I drove the car, apart from the slower corners or if you were in the wrong gear, the car flew! Having come out of barn with a blue scooby behind floored it and he just got past before the left turn up hill which is Coppice. I bet without Sam, the pax seat and rails (85kgs) I like to think may be a different story. Ultimately on a longer straight I'd been left standing for sure.
Sam drove the remainder of the last session, with me in the pax seat, giving pointers etc, found the cup hard to drive as the low down hesitancy returned part way through. Sam managed to get her lap time down 10 secs in the 30 mins but still a lot slower than a std Cup. Not driven since May, long time since we've been at Cadwell and very rusty overall. Coming back into the paddock, to swap over for the last 20 mins or so the Cup wouldn't start, a phone call to Dan saw me gently pulling, from the pax side on the starter solenoid wire. It kept on coming, vibrated off, attempted to put it back on but with limited access (heat shield) and roasting my hands even after a cool down wait, left it off and finished for the day there.
With the Mallory race (3rd August) in mind arranged to drop the car back off with Dan for the 27 July and got to work to add more cooling, drilled 6 holes through the bumper to the engine bay, still got some left to do - took a while, plus Tony said I was cutting too fast which saw me blunt a hole saw after 3 holes. Slower the better, thought i'd placed the rad as far back as I needed to but caught it with the hole pilot drill....didn't make a hole but going to get a bigger rad anyway.
Replaced the servo pipe with a solid alloy one, routed more or less the same way, just got to push the servo end on 5mm more. Not much access there. Also added a bit of heat shielding to the fuel pipe which comes from the floor pan to underneath the cams, for piece of mind more than anything else. It's made of the same plastic servo pipe that split with the heat and runs not far from the exhaust down pipes.
Re fitted the solenoid wire, though Dan is going to permanently attach this while he has the car so this won't come adrift again.
A day not without it's niggles but very happy with the overall performance of the "new" Cup. The loom work, switches all worked as it should and the forged engine absolutely on the mark.
Booked an afternoon half day with Javelin to get us back in the driving seat and to test out\prove all the new bits added to the Cup over the last couple of months. We've been on a few Javelin TD's but found this one quite busy overall, though I guess £79 for an afternoon will always attract plenty of drivers. Been the first and only time that we've had to queue (15 mins) to get out straight after the sighting laps...
Noise test - blimey, don't think i'll be doing any 98 db days from now, forgot to ask the noise tester the actual reading but Sam said it was the nosiest car by far when she was listening and she was in the paddock a fair way back up the hill too. Glad I fitted an intercom!
On the sighting laps noticed a low down hesitancy in the low rev range, mid to high range, up to the moderate speeds of sighting laps fine, loads of power and plenty of grunt to play with, slowing for the right hand hairpin after the halls complex the car struggled to pick up from the low speed. Also noticed the brakes were getting worse, to the point of having to leave a very large gap to the car in front. Carried on as I'd swapped the pads around to even their wear - the piston side always wears more - so put the brake deficiency down to the pads bedding in. Using the intercom, warned Sam about the poor brakes and the low down hesitancy so she could complete her sighting laps - not actually required but completed more for her own piece of mind.
After the sighting laps brakes where as bad as ever, the car wouldn't idle below 2.5k revs and there was a hissing noise in the engine bay. A quick call to Dan 519, with something to try for the hesitancy and us now looking for an air leak we got to work. We found a split in the brake servo pipe, managed to cut the pipe shorter, leaving enough to still be able to connect it to the inlet. With the car now running and revving with no fault, tried the brake pedal - 1000 times better, never actually driven a non assisted braked car so didn't know what was happening to the brakes at all. I'd noticed after finding the split servo pipe that the heat behind the engine was immense, a lot more than before and the the bulk head heat shield went straight down. This was allowing the heat to radiate up and behind the heat shield to where the servo pipe was situated. Simply removed the heat shield and bent the bottom 1\3 back towards the bulkhead which would channel the heat up and in between the inlet and heat shield, it worked as the servo pipe didn't split again.
I drove for a short while to get a better feel for the car but the session was cut short, red flagged we saw far too many of these during the course of the afternoon, also the low down hesitancy was back again. I jumped out remedied the hesitancy and went out on track again, another red flag saw me park up and cool down. The cup was running a fair bit hotter too, both oil and water higher - so more cooling required - nothing too alarming but enough to warrant more cooling.
The short time I drove the car, apart from the slower corners or if you were in the wrong gear, the car flew! Having come out of barn with a blue scooby behind floored it and he just got past before the left turn up hill which is Coppice. I bet without Sam, the pax seat and rails (85kgs) I like to think may be a different story. Ultimately on a longer straight I'd been left standing for sure.
Sam drove the remainder of the last session, with me in the pax seat, giving pointers etc, found the cup hard to drive as the low down hesitancy returned part way through. Sam managed to get her lap time down 10 secs in the 30 mins but still a lot slower than a std Cup. Not driven since May, long time since we've been at Cadwell and very rusty overall. Coming back into the paddock, to swap over for the last 20 mins or so the Cup wouldn't start, a phone call to Dan saw me gently pulling, from the pax side on the starter solenoid wire. It kept on coming, vibrated off, attempted to put it back on but with limited access (heat shield) and roasting my hands even after a cool down wait, left it off and finished for the day there.
With the Mallory race (3rd August) in mind arranged to drop the car back off with Dan for the 27 July and got to work to add more cooling, drilled 6 holes through the bumper to the engine bay, still got some left to do - took a while, plus Tony said I was cutting too fast which saw me blunt a hole saw after 3 holes. Slower the better, thought i'd placed the rad as far back as I needed to but caught it with the hole pilot drill....didn't make a hole but going to get a bigger rad anyway.
Replaced the servo pipe with a solid alloy one, routed more or less the same way, just got to push the servo end on 5mm more. Not much access there. Also added a bit of heat shielding to the fuel pipe which comes from the floor pan to underneath the cams, for piece of mind more than anything else. It's made of the same plastic servo pipe that split with the heat and runs not far from the exhaust down pipes.
Re fitted the solenoid wire, though Dan is going to permanently attach this while he has the car so this won't come adrift again.
A day not without it's niggles but very happy with the overall performance of the "new" Cup. The loom work, switches all worked as it should and the forged engine absolutely on the mark.
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182cup & 172 racecar
Better these things happen on a cheap trackday, rather than a race weekend.
See you on Friday.
See you on Friday.
Tony speaks sense, glad to hear its going pretty quick too!
I have a spare brake servo pipe if you want it? Im sure I can give it to someone at the rolling road meet next weekend and it can end up at 519 one way or another!
I have a spare brake servo pipe if you want it? Im sure I can give it to someone at the rolling road meet next weekend and it can end up at 519 one way or another!
Nice one Pete, glad to hear it went well. Shame about the niggles, poxy cars!!!
Sounds like it'll be quick once you get the niggles sorted. To be expected on a new build first time out.
We're racing at Mallory this coming Saturday, will be covered by Motors TV and live streamed over the internet and shown on Motors TV 31st August.
Our races are the French Trophy 3rd August
Qualifying 12:20 - 12:35
Race 3 (Pete) 15:00
Race 5 (Sam) 16:40
Register here to view.
Link will take you, eventually, to correct page
http://new.livestream.com/accounts/1426300/events/2275824
Our races are the French Trophy 3rd August
Qualifying 12:20 - 12:35
Race 3 (Pete) 15:00
Race 5 (Sam) 16:40
Register here to view.
Link will take you, eventually, to correct page
http://new.livestream.com/accounts/1426300/events/2275824
182cup & 172 racecar
Only live link on Sunday I think Pete. They are not sure yet.
The Cup's got a ma oosive rad in it now...touches both the left and right arches...thanks Dan! Car will be cool, just have to keep mine!
182cup & 172 racecar
Sams baking cakes for the weekend.
Great to see you both and the car on Friday/Saturday glad the car ran well and thanks again for the jerry cans 
Have a great holiday!
Have a great holiday!After a slightly dodgy moment on the start line Pete was flying and collecting positions brilliantly in race, me and Sam were jumping up and down on the he bank by devils elbow! Sam did really well with getting used to the car after not much practice with the new setup, managing to improve on her qualifying time by 2.5 seconds during the race. Think I'll raise the limiter a bit so there's a bit more for holding gear in the long corners. Overall a good days racing
Sounds great guys, whats the limit set at now Dan?
I watched Sam driving on the live feed, pretty sure she was making places fairly well. She started at the back iirc? Haven't watched the first race yet
Wondered why she was at the back, that rule is pretty s**t!
it's an oversight to be honest, new series so it takes a bit of time to iron out these things. They couldn't have changed the rules on the spot for fear of annoying other racers really so I get it. Imagine there's 5 teams with 2 drivers though......who starts last?
182cup & 172 racecar
We are discussing this atm. Spent most of Sunday trying to iron out bit's and pieces.
Well, a short bit about the weekend spent at Mallory. Will write more later as as soon as the 2nd FT race was over we we off on holiday so didn't hang around.
Qualifying...both Sam and I took 2 - 3 secs off our testing the day before with javelin, put on the the 205's and they where in a lot better condition than the ones used on the track day. Think I was mid high 55 and Sam mid high 58 secs. Both happy.
Race 1, Pete
car didn't feel right from the drive to assembly area, couldn't put my finger on it (did later). Totally different to the car driven in the q session. On the start line, putting into 1st and lifting the clutch, car lumpy and lacking. Revving for the 5 sec board saw me at around 4k ish let the clutch out, engine died. Ffs. Now last, engine on and got on it...was on the back marker at the end of Gerrards and then spent to long getting past the old ktec clio and the blue 197, took them both out of the esses into the hairpin..to late though Andy Josh was half a lap ahead. Finished where I started so nothing lost.
Race 2 Sam
Car properly warmed up no lumpy bits when revving. Start, hit limiter, lost the drop on the car we all wanted to pass. Took a while to get into rhythm. Gained 3 or 4 places got bumped by the same car every one was complaining about. Just needs some how to get past slower cars quicker lessons-same as I do.
continuing with the holiday see you in a couple of weeks.
Qualifying...both Sam and I took 2 - 3 secs off our testing the day before with javelin, put on the the 205's and they where in a lot better condition than the ones used on the track day. Think I was mid high 55 and Sam mid high 58 secs. Both happy.
Race 1, Pete
car didn't feel right from the drive to assembly area, couldn't put my finger on it (did later). Totally different to the car driven in the q session. On the start line, putting into 1st and lifting the clutch, car lumpy and lacking. Revving for the 5 sec board saw me at around 4k ish let the clutch out, engine died. Ffs. Now last, engine on and got on it...was on the back marker at the end of Gerrards and then spent to long getting past the old ktec clio and the blue 197, took them both out of the esses into the hairpin..to late though Andy Josh was half a lap ahead. Finished where I started so nothing lost.
Race 2 Sam
Car properly warmed up no lumpy bits when revving. Start, hit limiter, lost the drop on the car we all wanted to pass. Took a while to get into rhythm. Gained 3 or 4 places got bumped by the same car every one was complaining about. Just needs some how to get past slower cars quicker lessons-same as I do.
continuing with the holiday see you in a couple of weeks.
182cup & 172 racecar
Bet you thought, oh no. when that happened, not again.
Well done the pair of you, and apologise to Sam for me and James mugging her at the hairpin.
Have a good holiday.
Well done the pair of you, and apologise to Sam for me and James mugging her at the hairpin.
Have a good holiday.
Bloody hell, why did the engine die Pete?
Engine was cold - think the day was going well and think most of the races where called earlier than scheduled, no panic just turned the engine off thinking got a while to wait. I'll switch of when temps are hot next time. An easy fix!
Well, just got in from the beach, hard life I know and I've been watching and reading the Track attack forum video and comments from Mallory. Got to be honest with the amount of damaged cars from the various races and knowing we'll be in the middle then at the back for the 2nd race I'm thinking of ditching going to Cadwell being it's very narrow and I've seen a fair few bent cars when on track days there, let alone racing there with people who seem proud to post pictures of cars getting shoved onto the grass.
Can't wait for FT to get there own track time.
Can't wait for FT to get there own track time.
WRX
Saw that too Pete, not exactly confidence inspiring to finish unscathed is it? Racing cars at Cadwell just doesn't really float my boat. Haven't even bothered doing a trackday there, as it's really only suitable as a bike track IMHO. Just depends how many races you want to do I suppose.
Yes Adam, I'm about to copy and paste my post to their forum to see what reaction/comments it brings. Never one for not speaking my mind..lol.
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182cup & 172 racecar
Don't think we are with the mr2 though Pete.
Anyway, stop putting me off, I've never liked it, you know that ffs.
Anyway, stop putting me off, I've never liked it, you know that ffs.
Just checked the Track Attack forum for Cadwell and Mr 2 entries, seems not many are entering with the Nippon class. So will give a final check when we return from holiday late this weekend and will hopefully send entry off late next week. Don't really want to wait until October's Donington race.
We're back
Last night drinks at @ Bar Chez Luc, La Terriere.
now off to cut the grass
Last night drinks at @ Bar Chez Luc, La Terriere.
now off to cut the grass
182cup & 172 racecar
Pesky kids!!
Glad you had a good time.
Glad you had a good time.
