Advice - accident in 2021

Hi all.

Some of you will already know about my insurance woes from a couple years back when my 4 series got stolen. Well, as of today I have another problem to deal with.

Very long story short;
Got hit in 2021 by someone who jumped a red light. Insurance at the time were typically half soaked and failed to get the CCTV footage from the local pub and traffic cams on the lights. Accepted liability on my behalf due to their incompetence. I complained, they accepted complaint, reinstated my NCB, waived my excess, changed it to non fault, repaired my car (£250, was minor damage tbf). Sent me a letter confirming the same, all sorted.

Fast forward to today, and they’ve called me to say that because they never settled the claim, the third party has issued court proceedings against my insurers at the time. Not my problem, or so I thought…

They want me to “work with them” to assist in giving a witness statement because they believe the third parties claim to be illegitimate. Apparently, regardless of whether I get involved or not, it could change the outcome of the decision they made in 2021 which could mean the status changes to a fault claim?!? What the f**k?? Surely they can’t do that?

They’ve since emailed me a rather suspicious looking disclaimer I have to sign, so before I even consider it I thought I’d ask if anyone has come across this scenario before? I’m working from home tomorrow so will use the time to call them and go through it in more detail as I was caught off guard whilst a little rushed today.

Ombudsman, Ombudsman now

This sounds very sketchy, do you have all the corresponding emails from them back in 2021?

How has it taken this long for the third party to raise a grievance?

Is it just the time delay that’s worrying you? Pretty standard to be asked to give a witness statement if the third party insurer has gone legal on it.

What’s sketchy looking about the disclaimer?

The Chubby Pirate said:

This sounds very sketchy, do you have all the corresponding emails from them back in 2021?

How has it taken this long for the third party to raise a grievance?

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I’ve gone through my sent emails and yes, I have everything. Including the emails I sent regarding the CCTV (both to the insurers, and the council and highways agency).

charltjr said:

Is it just the time delay that’s worrying you? Pretty standard to be asked to give a witness statement if the third party insurer has gone legal on it.

What’s sketchy looking about the disclaimer?

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I just don’t see how it’s my problem anymore. They fucked up, it’s on them surely? The claim isn’t against me, it’s against the insurers.

The disclaimer just seems to waive my rights to things from what I remember, although I haven’t properly gone back over it since as I’ve been busy sorting other stuff out tonight.

Nickw88 said:

I’ve gone through my sent emails and yes, I have everything. Including the emails I sent regarding the CCTV (both to the insurers, and the council and highways agency).

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Did you have legal cover with your insurer at the time Nick mate? (you’ll have emails from them i’m sure)

If yes, i’d contact them and explain whats happening? I’m sure there would be some legal obligation to them on something like this? (Apologies if i’m way off on this but i feel like this is what i’d do in your position)

The Chubby Pirate said:

Did you have legal cover with your insurer at the time Nick mate? (you’ll have emails from them i’m sure)

If yes, i’d contact them and explain whats happening? I’m sure there would be some legal obligation to them on something like this? (Apologies if i’m way off on this but i feel like this is what i’d do in your position)

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I would say most likely, yes. But not certain, and although I have all the stuff I sent to them over email, I don’t think I have the original policy pack that was sent by post as a) it was ages ago and b) I no longer live with my now ex, and loads of stuff got lost/chucked when she so kindly moved me out 😂

This is what they emailed me earlier:

As little as i am qualified to say for sure, i tend to agree with your ethos - this sounds very much like a f**king them problem Nick mate😵‍💫

It’s standard stuff, as part your insurance contract you agree to assist them with litigation.

Technically it’s you who are having legal action taken against you by the third party insurers, so that‘s not a disclaimer but is authorising your ex-insurers to act for you in defending or settling the claim.

You won’t gain anything by not helping them, you’re just making it more likely that your ex-insurer loses the case and you go back to it being a fault claim.

Nickw88 said:

I would say most likely, yes. But not certain, and although I have all the stuff I sent to them over email, I don’t think I have the original policy pack that was sent by post as a) it was ages ago and b) I no longer live with my now ex, and loads of stuff got lost/chucked when she so kindly moved me out 😂

This is what they emailed me earlier:

View attachment 1707002

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May aswell share her OF now mate

This isn't particularly well drafted. It should identify the specific parties in the claim which you are waiving and the circumstances under which a waiver does apply and when it does not i.e. you should only be waiving the right for them to deal with any legal claims under the terms of your policy where a third party is claiming against your insurer for incidents during the term of your contract. You shouldn't automatically waive the right for them to deal with claims where it's against you as a named individual, this should be an optional election separately if required.

I would tweak the wording to make sure any waiver only covers the insurer/TP claim company to your insurer.

I haven't been in the insurance industry for 10 years, and when I was it was right at the start of my career as a boy, but it was quite frequent to see things come out of the wood work after several years. If it's your word against theirs it will likely be a 50:50 unless there is a balance of evidence in your favour. It may require some structure legwork on your behalf as claims management is like a battery farm, they have to balance time spent on the claim vs probability of recovery. Claims handlers aren't usually invested or incentivised in securing a win.

Louis said:

May aswell share her OF now mate

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f**k sake 🤣

GrahamS said:

This isn't particularly well drafted. It should identify the specific parties in the claim which you are waiving and the circumstances under which a waiver does apply and when it does not i.e. you should only be waiving the right for them to deal with any legal claims under the terms of your policy where a third party is claiming against your insurer for incidents during the term of your contract. You shouldn't automatically waive the right for them to deal with claims where it's against you as a named individual, this should be an optional election separately if required.

I would tweak the wording to make sure any waiver only covers the insurer/TP claim company to your insurer.

I haven't been in the insurance industry for 10 years, and when I was it was right at the start of my career as a boy, but it was quite frequent to see things come out of the wood work after several years. If it's your word against theirs it will likely be a 50:50 unless there is a balance of evidence in your favour. It may require some structure legwork on your behalf as claims management is like a battery farm, they have to balance time spent on the claim vs probability of recovery. Claims handlers aren't usually invested or incentivised in securing a win.

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Thanks for this info. I’m going to give them a call shortly and go through it all properly.
They need to change the form anyway as they spelt my name wrong (idiots) and I no longer live at the address they’ve used.

Still, all just seems like an unnecessary f**k over on my part. If they’d have followed my instructions and investigated it properly at the time, they’d have the evidence in my favour and there wouldn’t have even been any dispute full stop. After 3 years, I simply feel like it should have nothing to do with me anymore, but I get what you’re saying.

It was hard enough to secure affordable insurance this year, can’t imagine the price hike next year if this suddenly changes to a fault claim 😡

Surely by the time it was actually all delt with and settled you will be past the 5 years that a claim regardless of fault needs to be declared! id bin it and ignore the c***s

Martin_172 said:

Surely by the time it was actually all delt with and settled you will be past the 5 years that a claim regardless of fault needs to be declared! id bin it and ignore the c***s

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The accident was 2021, it was “settled” in 2022. Even if it goes from the date of the accident, I’ll still have to declare it for 2 more renewals 😡

Nickw88 said:

The accident was 2021, it was “settled” in 2022. Even if it goes from the date of the accident, I’ll still have to declare it for 2 more renewals 😡

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yeah but i mean the current process that may end up changing it to "your fault", by the time they close all that out which will likely take a year plus, the 5 years will have passed.

Nickw88 said:

The accident was 2021, it was “settled” in 2022. Even if it goes from the date of the accident, I’ll still have to declare it for 2 more renewals 😡

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Could you get a policy out right now and not have to declare it till next renewal?

or just drag it out as long as possible, so maybe only have to declare it for one renewal?

Martin_172 said:

yeah but i mean the current process that may end up changing it to "your fault", by the time they close all that out which will likely take a year plus, the 5 years will have passed.

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I guess it all depends on how long it takes, so yeah I get your point 👍🏻

The timescales are genuine, I attend court often for this stuff and it's well after the fact. I'm quite meticulous with estimates and images so everything is saved for years, thanks f**k!

Most are settled before the court date also.

Try and assist as best as you can, you've already given your account of what happened. Isn't it jus he said she said now?

R3k1355 said:

Could you get a policy out right now and not have to declare it till next renewal?

or just drag it out as long as possible, so maybe only have to declare it for one renewal?

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I only renewed fairly recently, end of May/start of June I think it was. So not worthwhile really considering how expensive it was 😂

Anyway, I’ve called the insurers again and unsurprisingly they weren’t able to give me a straight answer on anything and it was quite apparent that the person on the phone doesn’t really seem to know what’s what. I can only hope the legal representative has a better understanding of it.

So I’ve now called the ombudsmen and explained it all to them. They said that providing I state any evidence I give is to support them and I take no liability for it, I should be ok. But they definitely advised NOT to sign anything, including that liability waiver. They said the only thing I can do really is let it run, and then if there is any repercussion on me afterwards to lodge a formal complaint through the ombudsmen service.

Nickw88 said:

Anyway, I’ve called the insurers again and unsurprisingly they weren’t able to give me a straight answer on anything and it was quite apparent that the person on the phone doesn’t really seem to know what’s what. I can only hope the legal representative has a better understanding of it.

So I’ve now called the ombudsmen and explained it all to them. They said that providing I state any evidence I give is to support them and I take no liability for it, I should be ok. But they definitely advised NOT to sign anything, including that liability waiver. They said the only thing I can do really is let it run, and then if there is any repercussion on me afterwards to lodge a formal complaint through the ombudsmen service.

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If you complain at the insurer you will get someone better to deal with it instead of a bog standard call handler.

Gally said:

The timescales are genuine, I attend court often for this stuff and it's well after the fact. I'm quite meticulous with estimates and images so everything is saved for years, thanks f**k!

Most are settled before the court date also.

Try and assist as best as you can, you've already given your account of what happened. Isn't it jus he said she said now?

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Sorry buddy, somehow missed your post…thank you!

As far as I know they should have everything already but maybe they’re just disorganised. Either way, I will go through all the original stuff I sent and just make sure it’s worded correctly and factually before resending it. I believe the third party is making a fraudulent claim re the extent of the damage (reading between the lines of what I was told) so the pictures I have should resolve that. The fact her husband started harassing and threatening me afterwards (to the point I had to block their numbers) won’t go in their favour either, I’m sure. I also made the insurance aware of this at the time.