Brake Bleeding Woes!

[leeds2592]

Hi all,

Hear me out on this one, it may be a long post to explain everything.

So quite a while ago, we changed the brake lines on my 182 to brand new Goodridge braided lines, bled the system and they felt quite spongy but I didn't mind and just left it as the car was off the road anyway as I'd just bought a daily.

Fast forward over a year or so and I finally find the motivation to get it back on the road. Tried bleeding the brakes again and still spongy. Checked all the lines and there are no leaks anywhere. Tried bleeding quite a few more times and still no improvement. Tried with the engine off and the engine on but didn't seem to make a difference.

Left it again for a few months as I got fed up and just recently been trying again. Tried 2 people method, with a gunson eezibleed and also with a 1 way valve thingy, no change. Thought I'd found my problem as fluid was coming through the threads as well as the end of the nipple, however I put some ptfe round the threads as a temp solution, tried bleeding again and guess what? Still spongy! It feels absolutely solid when the engine is off but put the engine on and you can feel how soft the pedal is and if you push your foot right down, you can get right to the end of the pedal travel.

I've made sure there's no leaks anywhere, tried various bleeding methods, made sure all the calipers aren't seized and also recently bought a RS Tuner with the abs module to make sure there's no air in the ABS in case the fluid ran low at any time but even after all this, when I put my foot on the brake, it takes a second or 2 to stop fully. Absolutely no bite and definitely not enough for it to pass an MOT.

Any ideas as I'm at my wits end at the moment. Just want to get it MOT'd and back on the road but this is the only thing stopping me?

Should I be looking the master cylinder etc now? From what I can see, there's no leaks around there and no fluid dripping from that area.

Any help would be massively appreciated as I'm fed up of driving a slow, 16 year old Volvo now!!

 

[Krarl]

Goodridge lines are f**king shite for starters?

Have a look at your servo, if its rusty as f**k under the MC then it will be leaking. You wont see a leak but the O-rings will be shagged. It's easy enough to do

 

[leeds2592]

Goodridge lines are f**king shite for starters?

Have a look at your servo, if its rusty as f**k under the MC then it will be leaking. You wont see a leak but the O-rings will be shagged. It's easy enough to do

I know, I didn't know at the time until @Louis told me about your problems with them rubbing on the front shocks.

It's got to be something like that, I've pretty much ruled out everything else! Will have a look tomorrow.

 

[Krarl]

I know, I didn't know at the time until @Louis told me about your problems with them rubbing on the front shocks.

It's got to be something like that, I've pretty much ruled out everything else! Will have a look tomorrow.

Aye they're a bit wanky for that apparently. BRT motorsport do lines for £28 plus a few squid for next day delivery

It has to be something daft, does the pedal go flat to the floor with the engine off?

 

[Brigsy]

M/c might have failed, sometimes they have a hissy fit when the pedal is pushed down furthur than normal when bleeding.

 

[Louis]

You felt like you were getting them half decent, then get it off axle stands and it'd be shite. Definitely no leaks anywhere so it can only point to M/C orrr a tiny hole allowing air to be sucked in from the hoses somewhere but not leak fluid

 

[NTG999]

Guessing the car has ABS? Did the fluid level ever drop below the bottom of the master cylinder when changing the hoses?

 

[JB21]

With the ignition on 1 with engine off pump the pedal till it goes solid and keep your foot on it with medium pressure for a minute or so to see if it goes down even slightly, if so theres a small leak somewhere. If it doesn't budge then its air within the system.

If its air then go out and find a field or gravel and fire the ABS 5-10 times and try and re-bleed looking for air bubbles coming out.

I've got a spare MC and header you can have if it's that. As Kyle mentioned the brake booster can also rust.

Also check the brake booster line that attaches to the inlet as these can melt.

Good luck.

 

[leeds2592]

Aye they're a bit wanky for that apparently. BRT motorsport do lines for £28 plus a few squid for next day delivery

It has to be something daft, does the pedal go flat to the floor with the engine off?

Nope, few pumps and it's hard with the engine off.

M/c might have failed, sometimes they have a hissy fit when the pedal is pushed down furthur than normal when bleeding.

Seems to be looking that way. No leaks from around that area but could still be jiggered right?

Guessing the car has ABS? Did the fluid level ever drop below the bottom of the master cylinder when changing the hoses?

I don't believe I did but could have gotten a bit low. As said in my original post though, I've bought an rs tuner with the abs module and pulsed that while bleeding to make sure there's no air in the abs.

With the ignition on 1 with engine off pump the pedal till it goes solid and keep your foot on it with medium pressure for a minute or so to see if it goes down even slightly, if so theres a small leak somewhere. If it doesn't budge then its air within the system.

If its air then go out and find a field or gravel and fire the ABS 5-10 times and try and re-bleed looking for air bubbles coming out.

I've got a spare MC and header you can have if it's that. As Kyle mentioned the brake booster can also rust.

Also check the brake booster line that attaches to the inlet as these can melt.

Good luck.

Had another look tonight and doesn't seem to be any movement jn the pedal if I keep my foot on it.

It's really difficult to see around the mc isn't it? But I had a good look and no fluid leaking or anything dodgy looking around that area.

Im reluctant to start messing with the mc with how bloody fiddly it will be!

 

[Krarl]

MC is easily done, think I posted on my Clio thread about it. Can always lend a hand too if you need

It's just making sure the fluid doesn't touch anything which is the hardest part🤣

 

[leeds2592]

MC is easily done, think I posted on my Clio thread about it. Can always lend a hand too if you need

It's just making sure the fluid doesn't touch anything which is the hardest part🤣

Did you go through the wheel arch?

I'm gonna take the arch liner out tonight hopefully so I can get a proper look.

 

[Krarl]

Did you go through the wheel arch?

I'm gonna take the arch liner out tonight hopefully so I can get a proper look.

Aye mate, peel it back and you can get good access. Theres even more access on a 1*2 than a dCi 100 because there ain't a big snail and a massive cat in the way.

If you need even more room then jack up the drivers side, take the mount off and pull the engine forward. Acres of space to work with nate

 

[Clio_fool]

Nope, few pumps and it's hard with the engine off. Then the bay needs a wipe down again.

Dirty boy. 😂

This thread isn't helping to get my brembos fitted😳.

 

[JamesBryan]

Is this with Brembos fitted or standard calipers?

Brembos will feel a bit spongy/longer pedal travel due to their size.

 

[Krarl]

After all this I hope it's on standard calipers

If it's on Brembos weve all been chasing our tails and wasting our time🤣🤣 I got a 197 MC for when I bang Brembos on

 

[Usr117063]

13mm ratchet spanners will get the mc out real quick, unless youre on a 4 port which is a pain no matter what tools you have.

Also I dont think the 197 mc is anything to shout about, if you are doing work then chuck it on but I think the risk of having to bleed the pump again is not worth it.

 

[Krarl]

13mm ratchet spanners will get the mc out real quick, unless youre on a 4 port which is a pain no matter what tools you have.

Also I dont think the 197 mc is anything to shout about, if you are doing work then chuck it on but I think the risk of having to bleed the pump again is not worth it.

Got RS Tuner, makes no odds anymore. I like having fancy tools!🤣

 

[leeds2592]

Just standard calipers, was gonna look tonight but couldn't be bothered.

Dirty boy. 😂

This thread isn't helping to get my brembos fitted😳.

The spunk is now fully gone. Got fed up and bored with trying to fix it a few weeks ago so cleaned the engine bay a little bit. Might even spray the inlet and fuel rail guard when I get the fucker working again!

 

[Krarl]

Let me know if you want a hand you useless b*****d🤣

@Louis can come over and watch if he wants too👀😉🤣

 

[Gus]

I had this when i stupidly let all my brake fluid drain.

Check you dont have any leaks.

What I would do to start with is get down to halfords and buy an Easibleed kit. Easibleed will pressure bleed your system and requires a wheel with 20 psi so make sure you have a way of measuring the PSI and inflating a tyre.

Whilst at halfords buy the cheap 5L brake fluid (i forget what DOT it is) as you will go through a lot of fluid. obviously once you are happy you can use decent fluid.

Pressure bleed all the calipers, bleed them all again - go through about 2L of fluid.

Run your RS TUner or clip to activate the abs module. bleed at the same time with the eezibleeder.

Just keep bleeding, dont reuse any brake fluid you bleed out. You will go through a lot of fluid. It took me 4-5L before my pedal was rock solid.

Just keep at it. Set aside a couple of hours to do it. It will work.

 

[Louis]

Just standard calipers, was gonna look tonight but couldn't be bothered.



The spunk is now fully gone. Got fed up and bored with trying to fix it a few weeks ago so cleaned the engine bay a little bit. Might even spray the inlet and fuel rail guard when I get the fucker working again!

View attachment 1430616

You cleaned that about 2 weeks ago

Let me know if you want a hand you useless b*****d🤣

@Louis can come over and watch if he wants too👀😉🤣

Couldn't even come if i wanted to!

 

[JamesBryan]

Worth having a charger linked up to your battery if you're using clip or rstuner to activate the pump a lot.

 

[leeds2592]

Let me know if you want a hand you useless b*****d🤣

@Louis can come over and watch if he wants too👀😉🤣

Might take you up on that, however it'll be after the Bank Holiday now. Busy every night this week then going to Krakow over the weekend with @dann2707, so hopefully I'll be alive upon my return.

You cleaned that about 2 weeks ago


Couldn't even come if i wanted to!

Hence why I said I did it a few weeks ago.

Anyway, even in the state its in, my car will still move further than yours now, how does that make you feel?

I had this when i stupidly let all my brake fluid drain.

Check you dont have any leaks.

What I would do to start with is get down to halfords and buy an Easibleed kit. Easibleed will pressure bleed your system and requires a wheel with 20 psi so make sure you have a way of measuring the PSI and inflating a tyre.

Whilst at halfords buy the cheap 5L brake fluid (i forget what DOT it is) as you will go through a lot of fluid. obviously once you are happy you can use decent fluid.

Pressure bleed all the calipers, bleed them all again - go through about 2L of fluid.

Run your RS TUner or clip to activate the abs module. bleed at the same time with the eezibleeder.

Just keep bleeding, dont reuse any brake fluid you bleed out. You will go through a lot of fluid. It took me 4-5L before my pedal was rock solid.

Just keep at it. Set aside a couple of hours to do it. It will work.

Thanks for giving me some light at the end of the tunnel!

Weird thing is is, I'm pretty sure the fluid didn't get mega low and I'm 100% sure now that I've got no leaks. I've gone through around 1.5-2L of fluid as it stands, I shall get some of the cheapo stuff from Halfords though.

I tried with the eezibleed not long back and I was mega cautious about not having too much pressure in the tyre as I was worried of damaging the seals on the master cylinder. Had it set at about 20psi and it seemed as though there wasn't enough pressure to push the fluid through. It was kind of dribbling out. Maybe I could pump the pedal at the same time? I've got a one way valve thing now that I could probably use in congunction with it.

Can I just confirm how people are bleeding when using an RS Tuner for the abs? It says to activate then keep constant medium pressure on the pedal. Do you do that for the whole time the abs is triggered as that's 30 seconds or so? When is it safe the lift your foot off the pedal so you don't draw air back through?

 

[Krarl]

Might take you up on that, however it'll be after the Bank Holiday now. Busy every night this week then going to Krakow over the weekend with @dann2707, so hopefully I'll be alive upon my return.



Hence why I said I did it a few weeks ago.

Anyway, even in the state its in, my car will still move further than yours now, how does that make you feel?



Thanks for giving me some light at the end of the tunnel!

Weird thing is is, I'm pretty sure the fluid didn't get mega low and I'm 100% sure now that I've got no leaks. I've gone through around 1.5-2L of fluid as it stands, I shall get some of the cheapo stuff from Halfords though.

I tried with the eezibleed not long back and I was mega cautious about not having too much pressure in the tyre as I was worried of damaging the seals on the master cylinder. Had it set at about 20psi and it seemed as though there wasn't enough pressure to push the fluid through. It was kind of dribbling out. Maybe I could pump the pedal at the same time? I've got a one way valve thing now that I could probably use in congunction with it.

Can I just confirm how people are bleeding when using an RS Tuner for the abs? It says to activate then keep constant medium pressure on the pedal. Do you do that for the whole time the abs is triggered as that's 30 seconds or so? When is it safe the lift your foot off the pedal so you don't draw air back through?

I stick to old fashioned bleeding tbh🤣

UUUUUPPPP

DOOOOOOWWWWWNNN

Nowt better than you and your dad getting arsey with each other because one of you fucked up so you have to do it again🤣🤣

I'd deffo look at your servo, but as @Brigsy mentioned you might have just made the MC unhappy. The square cut seals in them dont like being rolled too far after they get used to pedal throw memory. Seals from Biggred are cheap as chuff tho

 

[Louis]

Might take you up on that, however it'll be after the Bank Holiday now. Busy every night this week then going to Krakow over the weekend with @dann2707, so hopefully I'll be alive upon my return.



Hence why I said I did it a few weeks ago.

Anyway, even in the state its in, my car will still move further than yours now, how does that make you feel?



Thanks for giving me some light at the end of the tunnel!

Weird thing is is, I'm pretty sure the fluid didn't get mega low and I'm 100% sure now that I've got no leaks. I've gone through around 1.5-2L of fluid as it stands, I shall get some of the cheapo stuff from Halfords though.

I tried with the eezibleed not long back and I was mega cautious about not having too much pressure in the tyre as I was worried of damaging the seals on the master cylinder. Had it set at about 20psi and it seemed as though there wasn't enough pressure to push the fluid through. It was kind of dribbling out. Maybe I could pump the pedal at the same time? I've got a one way valve thing now that I could probably use in congunction with it.

Can I just confirm how people are bleeding when using an RS Tuner for the abs? It says to activate then keep constant medium pressure on the pedal. Do you do that for the whole time the abs is triggered as that's 30 seconds or so? When is it safe the lift your foot off the pedal so you don't draw air back through?

It makes me sad mate

 

[arChi69]

@leeds2592

Did you manage to get to the bottom of this? What was the issue in the end?

 

[Clio_fool]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣No chance!

 

[leeds2592]

@leeds2592

Did you manage to get to the bottom of this? What was the issue in the end?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣No chance!

As above 🤣

When I get round to it, I'm going to remove the arch liner so I can properly check the master cylinder to make sure the seals aren't buggered. That'll probably be in another year or so.....