F.A.O. Lee and any other fellow geeks - planned Games Rebuild

[Munson]

I'm putting together a shopping trolley for my rebuild. I would like some thoughts from you guys.

Asus A8N-SLI Premium (Socket 939)
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+ (939 Pin)
XFX nVidia GeForce 7950GX2 Extreme Edition '520MHz' 1GB GDDR3
Corsair Twin2X 2GB DDR2 (2x1024MB) XMS2 6400 (probably overkill as I dont intend to OC just yet)

£775 - I already have a kick ass PSU and a nice case. I dont need drives or fans etc.

I normally do my homwork but I've been out of the loop for a while and am wondering if all that gear is fully sorted and compatible? It should own my current rig, which is a Gigabyte 8KNXP, P4 3.0, 2GB Crucial, 6800Ultra. Opinions please? I want detailed views, as this rig will be my gaming setup for at least 2 years - about the same period the current setup has lasted me, and lasted well it has.

 

[wozzaa]

Ram is not compatible thats DDR2 memory and your still using a 939 pin board you need ddr1 memory for that unless your using the new style AM2 board types which dont really offer any performance gain. And there 940 pin.

Not sure if its worth spending the cash on that graphics card either with DX10 cards coming to market soon.

 

[Munson]

Ram is not compatible thats DDR2 memory and your still using a 939 pin board you need ddr1 memory for that unless your using the new style AM2 board types which dont really offer any performance gain. And there 940 pin.

Not sure if its worth spending the cash on that graphics card either with DX10 cards coming to market soon.

Hmmm so basically it's a REALLY bad time to be building? I kind of thought that but then thought "well it's always a bad time"

We can always wait a bit longer cant we?

The memory issue was the main thing I was worried about so thanks for that.

 

[wozzaa]

Well were due for new cards before end of the year around christmas time depends if you wanna wait that long?

 

[rich[182]]

Yeh non DDR2 is the way to go, motherboard and cpu spot on but I wouldn't pay the premium for the flagship Nvidia card until the new DX10 cards are out
If you want more beef from a temp graphics upgrade I'd suggest you get an ATI 1900XT for about £195 from overclockers, this will easily clock to X1900XTX performance, or you could get the Nvidia 7900GT which will clock to 7900GTX specs, you'll still be able to sell these on after 9 months for a decent price, then get the DX10 card imho

^ my mistake, their £230ish inc vat, prob look at X1800XT/X for £160ish

 

[Darren S]

Roy - there's some good pricing on the socket 940 stuff now. I picked up an AM2 X2 4800+ CPU for around £175+VAT and the M2N32-SLi Asus mobo was only around £105+VAT. Like wozzaa says, the socket 939 kit doesn't support DDR-2, so socket 940 really is the way to go - if you're spending cash now and want to stick with AMD...

Played the GTR2 demo again last night with all eye-candy switched on. Enabled 100% rain, had the headlights on and everything and the thing didn't slow-down once. Lovely. :approve:

D.

 

[Lee]

Looks like most things have been covered already in this thread.

Socket 940 CPUs are still hard to get in the speeds I want so I've bought 939 still recently.

Other than the Pentium Core Due Extreme which arrives today that is. I can't wait to see how that thing goes. Got some Corsair XMS 2 1066 RAM to go with it and two 7900GTX as usual.

I'd be tempted to get one 7900GTX Roy then SLI at a later date. That will offer better performance than the 7950 and probably cost a few quid less in the long run.

You could wait, but then with computer components if you keep waiting you'll never buy anything as there's always something new on the way.

 

[Darren S]

Looks like most things have been covered already in this thread.

Socket 940 CPUs are still hard to get in the speeds I want so I've bought 939 still recently.

Other than the Pentium Core Due Extreme which arrives today that is. I can't wait to see how that thing goes. Got some Corsair XMS 2 1066 RAM to go with it and two 7900GTX as usual.

I'd be tempted to get one 7900GTX Roy then SLI at a later date. That will offer better performance than the 7950 and probably cost a few quid less in the long run.

You could wait, but then with computer components if you keep waiting you'll never buy anything as there's always something new on the way.

That's my plan exactly. Assuming of course that DX10 cards don't offer some mad 500% increase in performance or something...

Lee - I ran 3DMark on mine over the weekend. Got just shy of 6,000 marks without any optimisation or tweaking. I'll try the older 3DMark2003 and see what I get with that at some point too.

D.

 

[Munson]

Cheers for the help so far dudes. Lee, I'm still leaning to the 7950GX2. Its around £60 more than the 7900GTX and is a lot more powrfull?

I know that SLI 7900s will own it, but will I really want to spend out for another 7900 in 6 months to get slightly better performance than a single 7950GX2? By that time there will be far better cards, and I wont want to add an 'old' 7900 for SLI.

In my mind, for a reasonable percentage cost increase, a 7950GX2 is a one-shot card offering almost SLI performance, now, but not at SLI prices.

One card, one risk. In 6 months then think again. Does that make sense? I am prepared to pay £60 more for the 7950GX2 horsepower. Plus with driver updates, I'll be possibly open to quad SLI in 6 months?

 

[Darren S]

Roy - if the difference between a 7950 and 7900 is a mere £60, then I would go for it. When I was looking at pricing, the margin between the two was signifcantly larger. The question is, I've only seen one game that actively questions if you have a dual-core gfx card - and that was King Kong. I know others support it, such as Quake 4 with the latest patch, but rather than get the best of the best now, I'd stick to a 7900GTX and wait for the DX10 cards to arrive.

D.

 

[wozzaa]

It just shows up as an SLI graphics card as thats all it is. Not dual core .Dual core options are for the CPU.

 

[Lee]

Yeah, it's dual GPU. Basically 2 cards grafted together, sharing the same bus which is why it's performance is stunted compared to SLI'd cards.

Still not had chance to put the FX60s together or the Core Due Extreme, when I do later this week I'll bench them with SLI'd 7900 GTX in them. Shame I don't have a 7950 to bench mark against, but since I tried a 7850 previously I've not bothered with dual GPU cards as the performance increase isn't that great.

Though at todays prices it's certainly more acceptable.

 

[Munson]

What about Quad SLi though? If I use a 7950GX2, there's a good chance that the drivers will be available by the time I think about upgrading? Thus I could add another 7950GX2?

 

[Lee]

Yeah you could do that. You could probably find drivers to do it now if you wanted. Both Dell and Alienware sell systems with them.

In fact I could mail my mate who's the Developer & Technical Relations for Nvidia in the UK and get some. lol

 

[Munson]

So Quad SLI 7950GX2 would PWN SLI 7900GTX

BOOM! Head SHOT!

 

[Munson]

Okay I've been doing some further research and thinking over the usefull advice from you dudes. I am almost defo going to stick to socket 939, as the processors are going for such bargain prices it's impossible to choose CoreDuo2 (socket775) or AM2. So with Socket 939 chosen, I currently have lined up;

Asus A8N-SLi Premium nForce4 SLi (Socket 939) PCI-Express Motherboard (MB-111-AS)
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4600+ (Socket 939) - Retail (ADA4600BVBOX) (CP-128-AM)
EVGA GeForce 7900 GT "Signature Series" 256MB GDDR3 HDTV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-011-EA)
OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) PC4000 Dual Channel Platinum Series EB-DDR CAS3 (OCZ5002048EBPE-K) (MY-058-OC)

I currently have this all priced up in my cart at OCUK for £775 inc.VAT

Not too bad I reckon?

 

[Lee]

I'd go for the Asus A8N32 SLI Deluxe Roy. If you are going to SLI at some point that gives you two x16 slots instead of one running at x8.

The increase in performance is only a small amount, but there is an increase.

 

[Munson]

Okay swapped out the mobo for;

Asus A8N32-SLi Deluxe nForce4 SLi X16 (Socket 939) PCI-Express Motherboard (MB-118-AS)

 

[Munson]

Actually I've just realised that I could probably use my existing Crucial DDR 2GBRAM that I use in my Pentium setup?? Its dual channel PC3200. Could I use this RAM with the AMD based board?

 

[Aberclio182]

http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/lis...SUS&tabid=AM&model=A8N32-SLI+Deluxe&submit=Go

you should be able to yeah.

 

[Munson]

Yeah cheers for the link dude. Been a while since I used that. Turns out I have the exact same 2GB Crucial kit in my Intel Gigabyte 8KNXP mobo, so although it might not be the fastest RAM around, I can use my existing sticks in the new build. That'll save a few quid for sure

 

[Munson]

Updated shopping list;

Asus A8N32-SLi Deluxe nForce4 SLi X16 (Socket 939)
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4600+ (Socket 939)
BFG GeForce 7900 GTX OC 512MB


I'll be using my existing 2GB RAM from my intel based setup. This is all in stock and ready to order at OCUK for £640.20. Coming from a Gigabyte 8KNXP with Intel Pentium 4 3.0 (@3.2) and a 6800Ultra - I'm thinking £640 is a bragain upgrade and would give me considerably higher frame rates in the games where I am now finding my setup to be slightly weak. It still performs VERY well in all current FPS games including Prey and HL2 Episode 1, especially considering I always have Vsync forced on (my panel is 60hz so I guess where the rig cant hack 60fps I'm usually locked at 30fps or 20fps at worst)

Hopefully this new setup will put me squarely back in liquid 60fps territory without the Vsnyc divider cutting in. I always run at my native 1280x1024 with at least 2xAA and 4xAF with game settings as high as possible. F.E.A.R. was the only recent game that fisted my machine and made me cut back majorly in settings. I'm hoping this system will let me open up the throttle again with 4XAA and 8xAF (never noticed much difference with 16AF @1280x1024)

Sorry for the essay. What do you dudes think of my final shopping list? I'll probably be ordering it all up tomorrow

 

[Darren S]

Sounds good Roy.

I went the AM2 route with a 4800+ CPU. Changed the initial +10% frequency CPU option within BIOS the other night, so that it's now an effective 5200+ CPU, with each core reporting a speed of 2,639Mhz.

You'll notice a difference in performance for sure, but you had a decent enough system to begin with. Going from my old XP3200 / 9800 Pro / 1.5GB DDR400 PC, I saw a massive improvement!

D.

 

[Lee]

I've just benchmarked a system I put together earlier.

Asus A8N32 SLI Deluxe mobo, Athlon FX 60, 2gb OCZ DDR 400, 2 x XFX 7900GTX.

3DMark 2005 - 13747
3DMark 2006 - 8924

That's a fair bit quicker than the same systems with an X2 4800 in. It'll be interesting to see how much faster the Intel Pentium Core Due Extreme girth mofo does next week when I get round to building it.

 

[Munson]

I'm totally having second thoughts now (nothing to do with your benches)

I just cant decide what route to go down. I KNOW that you always need to choose a CPU first and I just cant decide.

939 - fast and now extremely cheap
AM2 - fasterish but a lot more cash
Duo - faster but alot more cash

I know deep donw that 939 offers me the best VFM for my upgrade path, but part of me wants the best now.

 

[Lee]

If you go for the fastest 939 chip you can afford. That'll see you a good 2 - 3 years of service. At that point everything will have changed again and you'll be starting out with a new motherboard.

AM2 is a bit new at the moment and is bound to have performance and driver issues for a while yet. Something I've started to try and avoid as it's not good having unstable machines at work. When the 7800GTX came out we had no end of problems, but we need fast machines. The early batches of 7900GTX were shocking. I RMA'd 3 out of 6 in one batch I ordered.

 

[Munson]

You're right Lee. I think I've been reading too many reviews and paying too much attention to stats that I wont notice in real games. I think I need to remember that I only intend to run @1280x1024, albeit with serious AA/AF and Vysnc on. I think I only need worry about UBER performance if I was running at 1900+

Probably better to stick to older, cheaper, but still serious kit. This makes each upgrade just as benficial but less painfull on the wallet.

 

[Lee]

My home PC is pretty crap now, but it's run for 3 and a half years. It started out with a top Asus Nforce 2 motherboard and an Athlon XP 2600 with 512mb of Corsair memory and an old Gforce 3. Over the last 3 and a half years it's gained a further 1gb of RAM and a ATI Radeon X800 XT PE which went in for Half Life. I reckon I've easily had my moneys worth out of it. I tend to PC game at work now, save me paying out for a fast system!! But I will upgrade it some time soon. For now I've got a few bits from work to perk it up a little. lol

Just benchmarked that system with one card in:

3Dmark 2005 - 10806
3Dmark 2006 - 6061

And while I'm being a sad geek some others to compare it to.

Mine: DFI Lanparty UD RDX 200 mobo, Athlon X2 4800, 2gb DDR 400 Alienware (Patriot) memory, with not amazing timings, 2 x ATI Radeon X1900 XTs.

3Dmark 2005 - 12549
3Dmark 2006 - 8210

My bosses PC: Asus A8V-E Deluxe mobo, Athlon FX57, 2gb DDR 400 (can't remember type) ATI Radeon X1900XTX

3Dmark 2005 - 11152
3Dmark 2006 - 5132

The single core really hurts the FX57 in 3Dmark 2006.

 

[Munson]

Update - Final Shopping List For Geek Approval. I've decided to go with socket AM2 and all that implies;




Asus M2N32-SLi-DLX nForce 590 SLi (Socket AM2) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard (MB-142-AS)

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4600+ 2.40GHz (Socket AM2) - Retail (CP-170-AM)

Crucial 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2 PC2-6400C4 800MHz Ballistix Dual Channel Kit (BL2KIT12864AA804) (MY-078-CR)

BFG GeForce 7900 GTX OC 512MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-017-BG)




£854 inc. VAT, and that rig should be pretty fooking rapid :evil: Asssuming I've made no serious balls ups with that lot, I'm going to be placing my order this afternoon.

 

[Munson]

I'm just about to run 3DMark'06 on TheBeast before she retires. Then I'll be breaking her down tomorrow ready for the build of TheBeast2.

The before and after benches should be quite interesting :evil:

 

[Munson]

Sorry, I know this is boring. Just added a Thermaltake Armour case in black, and a nice new black Pinoneer 111 dual layer burner. I didnt actually need either of these but thought I may as well spruce up the externals while I'm at it. The upgrade is now weighing in at £975 which is just under my max budget.

 

[Munson]

I'm rambling now, I know. Why cant we just edit our fookin' posts?

For consistency of the thread - it's all ordered up but I spunked the extra on a 7950GX2 Extreme Edition. So slightly into 4 figures

TheBeast posted a pretty poor 2850 in 3DMark'06. TheBeast2 should easily manage 7000? It's the games that count though. F.E.A.R. is going to get a full replay, as is Half-Life 2 and Episode 1. Call Of Duty 2 will also be on the list (it owned my current setup too much for me to play at the settings I like) Of course, Prey will also be getting a punt. Any news on when STALKER is being released? I'll probably be in Quad SLi by then and wondering whether or not I should upgrade to dx10 :rasp:

 

[Darren S]

I'm rambling now, I know. Why cant we just edit our fookin' posts?

For consistency of the thread - it's all ordered up but I spunked the extra on a 7950GX2 Extreme Edition. So slightly into 4 figures

TheBeast posted a pretty poor 2850 in 3DMark'06. TheBeast2 should easily manage 7000? It's the games that count though. F.E.A.R. is going to get a full replay, as is Half-Life 2 and Episode 1. Call Of Duty 2 will also be on the list (it owned my current setup too much for me to play at the settings I like) Of course, Prey will also be getting a punt. Any news on when STALKER is being released? I'll probably be in Quad SLi by then and wondering whether or not I should upgrade to dx10 :rasp:

Roy - let me know what the score is this new setup. Apart from the 7950's - it's almost identical to mine. Funny you mention CoD2 as well as that totally battered my old system. The 2nd mission played with the Russians was like a slideshow on my old PC. Works a treat now - in fact I finished CoD2 this weekend...

D.

 

[Munson]

Roy - let me know what the score is this new setup. Apart from the 7950's - it's almost identical to mine. Funny you mention CoD2 as well as that totally battered my old system. The 2nd mission played with the Russians was like a slideshow on my old PC. Works a treat now - in fact I finished CoD2 this weekend...

D.

It's going to own if for no other reason than it will look like this;

Best Looking Chassis Ever (worth at least 1000 3D marks?)

 

[Darren S]

It's going to own if for no other reason than it will look like this;

Best Looking Chassis Ever (worth at least 1000 3D marks?)

LOL - my Antec P180B black case would have it in the twisties though... :rasp:

D.

 

[Lee]

All the PCs I build here are in the silver P180. Lovely case and extremely quiet.

I'll be putting the uber beast together at some point today if I get time.

 

[Munson]

I did look at the P180 but from what I could see its Midi only. I wanted a full tower, and by all accounts the one I chose is a serious thermal performer and is very quiet also. Plus IMO it looks the bollox in black.

Men use full tower chassis only :clown:

 

[Darren S]

The P180B was on a recommendation from a m8 - and a very good one at that. It's quiet, looks the nuts and just has that overall 'quality' feel to it. The only thing I can fault them on is the misely amount of screws they give you. Bloody tight-asses!

D.

 

[Munson]

Do you use a soundcard? I'm considerig not bothering in the new machine. I have an Audigy to shove in there if I need to.

 

[wozzaa]

System is similar to mine overclocked 4400+ 2gb OCZ ram and a 7800gtx 512 i put an XFI fatality card in mine and it was worth it to me over my audigy 2 zs. Games sound and run better cause of the Xram on it so i got a performance increase and also the ability to use ultra quality audio in a few games designed solely for the xfi.