New Era or Old School?

Scutch · Jul 4, 2006

Having just read that Evo magazine review of the Clio 197, and posted my comment :

Scutch said:
Cars are getting bigger these days. What happened to the get in and rag f**kability of the 106 GTi, Clio Williams, Mini Cooper original?! I know safety has to play a part but Christ please go back to small nimble hot hatches!

I asked my mate at work his opinion on it and he said he preferred the larger size of the modern hot hatches, as it looked more aggressive and sturdy on the road, as opposed to a little GTi number squirming in and out of traffic and the like.
Now I had a Clio 182, and it was a fantastic car, but I wouldnt want it to get any bigger, frame wise. It has, and in my opinion it looks worse and just looks overweight and too high. If I see one in the flesh my opinion might change, but I will always prefer the 182 over the 197. I had 2 Clio Williams' before the 182. Awesome cars. Small, agile, handling was fantastic and they look so compact and able. Safety plays a big part in cars these days, and its making the hatches bigger and heavier. I realise things probably wont change and they'll get even bigger and heavier.

Is it just me or do other people prefer the smaller hot hatch to the new 'grown up' versions?

MarkCup · Jul 4, 2006

Old skool all the way - weight is my enemy

Clio 1.216v Dynamique · Jul 4, 2006

Old School

MarkM · Jul 4, 2006

The lighter the better for performance which includes handling accelleration braking.

So old school, unless I was involved in a big accident then I may change my mind...

Scutch · Jul 4, 2006

MarkM said:
The lighter the better for performance which includes handling accelleration braking.

So old school, unless I was involved in a big accident then I may change my mind...

lol. Indeed you may.

Dan Page · Jul 4, 2006

deffinately the old school....

al · Jul 4, 2006

Old school!

Renault 5 GT Turbo at 850kg comapred to the Fat 197.

Scutch · Jul 4, 2006

Promising. No one prefer the new breed?

Dave · Jul 4, 2006

Old school. I will always look at 205GTi's and R5GTT's etc with a lot of affection.

However as everything on the road is now travelling a lot faster on average than 20 years ago I think we have to be sensible and move on.

Plus the emmissions guidelines have tamed our engines considerably.

Mark J · Jul 4, 2006

old school

GarethM · Jul 4, 2006

old school for me too
love the smaller hot hatches,cant beat the williams, valver, 172's.

cat171 · Jul 4, 2006

I say old school as well, I still love gtt's & valvers etc, plus not just renault (love ford stuff too)
I doubt in 10 years time i'll be wanting/wishing i'd had a 197.

Scutch · Jul 4, 2006

cat171 said:
I say old school as well, I still love gtt's & valvers etc, plus not just renault (love ford stuff too)
I doubt in 10 years time i'll be wanting/wishing i'd had a 197.

Exactly, probably still be a Williams, 106 GTI etc. Thats what its all about, wantability in the future!

Turkish · Jul 4, 2006

Old skool! tbh i've been tempted recently to go back to a gt turbo and put the money from the 182 into property. I'd have to cage it after seeing how they fair in accidents and secondly you show me a gt turbo that isnt falling to bits or been chavved to f**k. Took me 6 odd months to find a minter when i bought my 1st one 7 years ago.

Scutch · Jul 4, 2006

Loony said:
Old skool! tbh i've been tempted recently to go back to a gt turbo and put the money from the 182 into property. I'd have to cage it after seeing how they fair in accidents and secondly you show me a gt turbo that isnt falling to bits or been chavved to f**k. Took me 6 odd months to find a minter when i bought my 1st one 7 years ago.

I'd love a mint R5 GTT, so would the girlfriend. Lovely wee cars. Temperamental, but only if not looked after. Like you say though, hard finding a good'un

Here you go Loony

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/60932.htm

or an R5 GTT Turbo 2

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82596.htm

Rich · Jul 4, 2006

For me the 182 was the closest I could get in a brand new car to my old 205 GTi, anything bigger again for me loses that small hatch experience.

Look at the picture in Evo of the 197 next to the 182, the days of a small hot hatch are over. I still love the old school, Williams, 205 GTi and Mk 1 Golf GTi, but the two later are really under underpowered these days.

In standard form I would take my 182 all week - so new school.

But as a dedicated trackday toy, 205 GTi with an Mi conversion for sure - so old school.

As it stands now (not yet driven the 197) I would'nt want to go for a bigger small hatch than my 182.

Turkish · Jul 4, 2006

Scutch said:
I'd love a mint R5 GTT, so would the girlfriend. Lovely wee cars. Temperamental, but only if not looked after. Like you say though, hard finding a good'un

Here you go Loony

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/60932.htm

or an R5 GTT Turbo 2

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82596.htm

Nah dont like dimmas and turbo 2 would be a bit old for me, would have to be a late H possibly J plate phase 2 in white or tungsten for me. I'd miss my A/c and xenons though, ideally i'd have it as a weekend toy. Mine was good as gold the 2 & 1/2 years i had it despite what some people will say about them.

MarkM · Jul 4, 2006

Scutch said:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82596.htm

turbo 2 looks tidy, 14.5k though

al · Jul 4, 2006

I'd definately have a turbo 2 although IIRC they're all left hookers.

And as far as GTT's go it'd have to be TOTALLY standard! Not bothered too much about mintness as it'd make a good project.

Weeman · Jul 4, 2006

Check out the size of the Aerodeck in the picture, Its all doen to safety, cars get bigger to accomodate crumple zones airbags etc etc and all the toys you get these days, For sure i'd love a mk 1 gti, clio williams, but when i do 30,000 miles a year, i know which one i'd rather hit the back of a truck with.....

Scutch · Jul 4, 2006

Most of them have had engine rebuilds. Check the other GTTs for sale on Pistonheads and Autotrader. There's a mint Turbo 2 on trader for ... £25k! lol

Scutch · Jul 4, 2006

Weeman said:
Check out the size of the Aerodeck in the picture, Its all doen to safety, cars get bigger to accomodate crumple zones airbags etc etc and all the toys you get these days, For sure i'd love a mk 1 gti, clio williams, but when i do 30,000 miles a year, i know which one i'd rather hit the back of a truck with.....

Yeah but the smaller cars can avoid the trucks better

Weeman · Jul 4, 2006

trucks bounce off my golf, LOL and road side bollards are just brushed aside. lol

_Kenny_ · Jul 4, 2006

It would be great to have the best of both worlds (if you had the cash). I would still love to pick up a mint 205 gti or Willy one day to use for the weekends and drive a modern safe car such as a 182/197/Golf during the week.

Turkish · Jul 4, 2006

al said:
I'd definately have a turbo 2 although IIRC they're all left hookers.

And as far as GTT's go it'd have to be TOTALLY standard! Not bothered too much about mintness as it'd make a good project.

My old one was when i bought it, even down to original peashooter exhaust and crappy renault tape player, lol.

Although out of the ones on pistonheads this one doesnt look bad, well apart from the price, lol

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82911.htm

blue nose · Jul 4, 2006

i had a golf mk1 gti many years ago, i was broken hearted when it died

Scutch · Jul 4, 2006

Loony said:
My old one was, even down to original peashooter exhaust and crappy renault tape player, lol.

Although out of the ones on pistonheads this one doesnt look bad, well apart from the price, lol

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/82911.htm

Always find 300bhp in a car that weighs as much as a gnats chuff mental. Truly mental.

blink172 · Jul 4, 2006

Defo old school, as cars grow old they expand (like most people as they age). On the plus side, it does mean there will be a smaller version coming,

E.G. Golf-polo-lupo.

Clio-???. What ever moves into the smaller slot, will bound to have an RS variant and you'll all be buying those as the definitive hothatch.

wozzaa · Jul 4, 2006

Not really a fan of older hot hatches I can see why they would be fun and I would enjoy driving them but I just prefer newer cars generally mainly cause I like the styling more I still like older cars as well.

Love the design of my current car which is a C4 Coupe. And well it has bloody good brakes little too good at times and also the safest car in the class yet still looks good imo was very well spec'd and had a good price. And all my teething problems have been sorted out so cant really complain about the car after owning it nearly a year. Still miss the way my clio handled but the C4 is just so much more comfortable when you have a few people in it.

miss my MK2 golf as well though great car. And my 2nd car is gettig on a bit now wee fiat cinquecento sporting. Seriously good fun to drive though just after dropping in a 1.2 and turboing it next seems to be rather simple and fairly cheap thing to do from the research i have done.

Scutch · Jul 4, 2006

wozzaa said:
Not really a fan of older hot hatches I can see why they would be fun and I would enjoy driving them but I just prefer newer cars generally mainly cause I like the styling more I still like older cars as well.

Love the design of my current car which is a C4 Coupe. And well it has bloody good brakes little too good at times and also the safest car in the class yet still looks good imo was very well spec'd and had a good price. And all my teething problems have been sorted out so cant really complain about the car after owning it nearly a year. Still miss the way my clio handled but the C4 is just so much more comfortable when you have a few people in it.

Ahh, finally! 1 to the new age!

Trevor · Jul 4, 2006

Definitely old school.

ukaskew · Jul 4, 2006

Renaultsport Twingo sooooo needs to happen!

It's the same with anything I suppose, the car grows up with the original owners, the Golf GTi has got bigger and bigger, but the Polo and Lupo GTi have both come along to fill the void. Let's just hope Renault do the same.

Old school for me, I find it hard to choose between the MK1s (1.8 16V and Willy) and my 172 Cup in terms of looks etc, but I am certainly going to move back "down" to a MK1 sooner or later, and don't see this as step back in many ways, more like a new beginning!

Remedi · Jul 4, 2006

Old school!

Safety?

Fit a cage, some buckets and harnesses... job done

JayJo · Jul 4, 2006

If web forums had been around since the dawn of hot hatches then every evolution would have been slated by the previous model car owners.

Sorry but we can hardly say a 172 or 182 is old skool. If anything Old Skool is at least GTT or a Valver.

Not saying a prefer the 197 but the next generation will buy it, luv it and then end up slating the next variant.

Zonda · Jul 4, 2006

I have been gradually progressing with my 5GTT over the past year or so... its what I call old skool.. and why I went back in time to get another 2 years ago (I had a clio V6 before that...but still missed owing a 5GTT) so bought this one for weekend fun....but it turned into something a little more, I restored every chip and scratch.. and there has never been any rust on the car.. even undereath is super clean, had to relive those tin can built cars again... and it gets the blood pumping when u drive it! lol.. unlike more modern cars of today... (but buying a 182 this week so I can keep the 5 as a hobby) if your interested... heres a few pics on it..