Track car build

[Daz89]

Hi all,

I'm sure there has been thousands of these posts in the past but if I'm honest I haven't got the time to search through them all, So I apologies in advance.

I've had a few Clio's over the years. Both 172 and 182 but only used on the road. I've now got a 53 plate 172 cup which I've stripped out and am ready to start rebuilding for the track.
I got the car for cheap with a knackered gearbox and had it repaired by @NorthloopCup (cheers for that mate) My aim is to run ITB's so am after advice on which ones are most recommended and effective and which standalone ECU to run in conjunction. Also what other components to install to get the best out of the ITB setup but without uprating any internals. (for now) Will obviously need setting up on a rolling road as well. I live in the north west. Any recommendations?

Thanks

 

[cliocollins]

The plans sound great for the 172 Cup, you should start a 'project thread' on here.

In terms of ITBS I've recently fitted an ATPower Kit with GEN90 ECU, mines running. albeit quite rough! Mapping is in December at EFi who I don't think are that far from you.

I know PMS do a nice kit which if I was to do it again I'd opt for this route. Hope that helps.

 

[Daz89]

Thanks mate. I will start a thread once I've got a bit further into the project. Between working shifts, 2 kids and a pregnant Mrs the progress could be fairly slow to say the least.haha.

I've been looking on PMS and they have 2 ITB kits. Pure/AT power and Pure/Jenvey. The AT power kit is £500 more expensive. is there much difference between the 2? I think I'm going to purchase the decat PMS system as well. Best get some overtime in for this lot!

EFI is around 2 hours away from me so that's good to know thanks.

 

[Hollidog]

Hi mate, I'm well down the rabbit hole and to be honest I would say it's not worth it. Even if you go quite far beyond bodies (£1500) onto cams (197 cams about £250, catcams £800 or so), exhaust (182 mani about £150-200, stainless mani-back about £500 depending on brand), hi comp pistons (£800), ecu (£1000) and a tune (£4-500) you're not going to gain a heck of lot (mine has the above and is at 212hp) and you're in the hole for near enough £5k before you,ve had someone put it together for you. Then you'll want an uprated clutch, a diff, lightweight flywheel... never ends!

But to answer your question, a 182 manifold is - as far as I know - the only difference engine wise between the 172 and 182 and should get you about 10hp. its a 4-2-1 manifold instead of a 4-1, something to do with pulse tuning and backpressure, way over my head!

 

[green]

@Daz89 I've gone with the ktec/jenvey bodies with gen90 ecu also have high comp bottom end. Ran 200bhp with 177 ftlb. 182 manifold, pms exhaust with sport cat. It’s wasn’t cheep cheep can’t remember the actual price but was round £5000 to get there. I can’t work on anything engines wise so had it built for me so if you can do it yourself you’ll save loads.
must say in the 8 years the engine and bodies have been faultless. I only use it for weekend blasts and track days.
When the belts were due I got high lift cams fitted. Did gain an extra 16bhp. The cams have made a massive increase in the mid and high range.
If doing it all gain I’d be getting most of the parts from puremotorsport as Nick knows the ins and outs of throttle bodied clios.
Hope it helps.

 

[Crazylegs]

Look at the Group N timing tool as well, might increase power a bit.

 

[colesy]

As above group n timing to accompany the bodies, 182 manifold and a map at EFI.

 

[Crazylegs]

From what I've read, the ITB's aren't going to give you massive gains but they sound amazing.

I think the 182 manifold, Catcams, group N timing and a proper remap at EFI will see you net good power. Maybe spend what you were going to spend on ITB's and upgrade brakes, suspension and make it a bit lighter.

 

[Crazylegs]

Can see from your original post you've lightened the car already, my apologies. [emoji106]

 

[Daz89]

Hi mate, I'm well down the rabbit hole and to be honest I would say it's not worth it. Even if you go quite far beyond bodies (£1500) onto cams (197 cams about £250, catcams £800 or so), exhaust (182 mani about £150-200, stainless mani-back about £500 depending on brand), hi comp pistons (£800), ecu (£1000) and a tune (£4-500) you're not going to gain a heck of lot (mine has the above and is at 212hp) and you're in the hole for near enough £5k before you,ve had someone put it together for you. Then you'll want an uprated clutch, a diff, lightweight flywheel... never ends!

But to answer your question, a 182 manifold is - as far as I know - the only difference engine wise between the 172 and 182 and should get you about 10hp. its a 4-2-1 manifold instead of a 4-1, something to do with pulse tuning and backpressure, way over my head!

Thanks for this mate. Yeah I could do without being 5 grand in at the minute. I'm thinking ITBs, ECU, Pure exhaust system with decat, suspenion and brakes. I've read that the 182 manifolds are hard to come by but the aftermarket stainless steel ones are a fortune. I'd be happy with 200BHP as the power to weight ratio should still be fairly impressive. Second hand performance parts seem to be few and far between.

 

[Daz89]

@Daz89 I've gone with the ktec/jenvey bodies with gen90 ecu also have high comp bottom end. Ran 200bhp with 177 ftlb. 182 manifold, pms exhaust with sport cat. It’s wasn’t cheep cheep can’t remember the actual price but was round £5000 to get there. I can’t work on anything engines wise so had it built for me so if you can do it yourself you’ll save loads.
must say in the 8 years the engine and bodies have been faultless. I only use it for weekend blasts and track days.
When the belts were due I got high lift cams fitted. Did gain an extra 16bhp. The cams have made a massive increase in the mid and high range.
If doing it all gain I’d be getting most of the parts from puremotorsport as Nick knows the ins and outs of throttle bodied clios.
Hope it helps.

This is brilliant thanks mate. I've got a lift in may garage so I'd be doing all the donkey work myself. It would need taking to EFI once all the parts are fitted though to be set up. I might give Nick at Pure a call and get some guidance from him on the throttle body set up

 

[Daz89]

From what I've read, the ITB's aren't going to give you massive gains but they sound amazing.

I think the 182 manifold, Catcams, group N timing and a proper remap at EFI will see you net good power. Maybe spend what you were going to spend on ITB's and upgrade brakes, suspension and make it a bit lighter.

where can you buy the group N timing tool from mate? I'll have to keep my eye out for a 182 exhaust manifold

 

[colesy]

I’ve got a group n tool you can hire off me if your interested

 

[Daz89]

That would be great cheers mate. is this timing adjustment ok on standard cams or does anything else need upgrading first?

 

[Crazylegs]

I believe you can adjust it on standard timing but it'll need a remap fairly sharpish. I think combined with the modifications you're doing, you should see some good improvements. Much better mid range power and smoother throughout, seemingly gets rid of the flat spot around 5k. I have to admit, I've not witnessed any flat spot in my 182, different cars I know but in essence both engines are the same.

 

[colesy]

Yeah can be done on standard cams but as @Crazylegs said will need a remap straight away. Pm me re the tool and we’ll get something sorted

 

[Daz89]

Yeah can be done on standard cams but as @Crazylegs said will need a remap straight away. Pm me re the tool and we’ll get something sorted

Thanks mate, the car is still in bits so I think what I'll do is get some of the mods fitted then get in touch when I'm about ready for the remap just so I borrow the tool for as little time as possible from you. I cant gaurentee when it will be done thats all because as I said at the beginning of the thread life's pretty hectic at the moment.ha. I'll get in touch nearer the time though and appreciate the help 👍

 

[colesy]

Thanks mate, the car is still in bits so I think what I'll do is get some of the mods fitted then get in touch when I'm about ready for the remap just so I borrow the tool for as little time as possible from you. I cant gaurentee when it will be done thats all because as I said at the beginning of the thread life's pretty hectic at the moment.ha. I'll get in touch nearer the time though and appreciate the help 👍

Cool man no worries at all just let me know

 

[Daz89]

Been doing some research as I'm now in two minds whether to run ITB's or go for a turbo conversion. Turbo conversion from Ktec is £3898. Engine dynamics are charging £2338.99. Quite a difference between the two. Is anyone running either of these set ups? If so some feedback would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[Crazylegs]

Again, no real world knowledge of either conversion. I didn't know KTEC run a turbo conversion but the Engine Dynamics seems to be good for the price, it nets around 230 brake which is more than ample on these cars imo. I think anything above will ruin the drive. It all depends on what you want from a car. I like the Clio as non-aspirated and it's fine for me as it is (standard pretty much).

I sound like a stuck record here but I'd go for larger brakes, a dedicated track suspension and try and get the handling setup as good as possible. Yes it won't have 230 odd brake but it will be better on its toes, better under braking and far far sharper and I doubt much will come close to it on track. There's s**t loads of chassis, suspension and braking modifications you can do for these cars. Get all the parts you need, get it to Ben at VTEC Direct in Winsford and he will set it up properly, he does loads of setups on race spec Clio's so may be worth contacting him for some advice on a way forward.

 

[Daz89]

Thanks for your comments @Crazylegs. If I go down the turbo conversion route, the low compression kit from Engine dynamics which produces around 230bhp like you say is more than enough. I wouldn't push it any further. In all honesty the 172 cup I have at the minute is pretty tatty. I bought it for a steal with a knackered gear box. I only paid £250. The car had £1500 spent on it before the gearbox went. Dephaser pulley, cambelt, service, mot and tyres etc. I couldn't say no to it. With all that said, I think if I put a turbo conversion on it and cleaned it up a bit myself I still don't think I'd be to far out of pocket with the price I got the car for.

I've always wanted a project car I could tune up so this is the perfect opportunity. And if it fails, I've got a 182 engine sat in the garage waiting to go

I'll definitely look into Ben at VTEC direct as well as I live in the north west and isn't to far away.

 

[Crazylegs]

Thanks for your comments @Crazylegs. If I go down the turbo conversion route, the low compression kit from Engine dynamics which produces around 230bhp like you say is more than enough. I wouldn't push it any further. In all honesty the 172 cup I have at the minute is pretty tatty. I bought it for a steal with a knackered gear box. I only paid £250. The car had £1500 spent on it before the gearbox went. Dephaser pulley, cambelt, service, mot and tyres etc. I couldn't say no to it. With all that said, I think if I put a turbo conversion on it and cleaned it up a bit myself I still don't think I'd be to far out of pocket with the price I got the car for.

I've always wanted a project car I could tune up so this is the perfect opportunity. And if it fails, I've got a 182 engine sat in the garage waiting to go

I'll definitely look into Ben at VTEC direct as well as I live in the north west and isn't to far away.

Blimey, that's a hell of a bargain! Well done mate, gives you some leeway to spend a bit of money on modifications and getting it built into a full track weapon. You do whatever is best for you man, if that means turbo then go for it! A car like a Clio will be savage with a low boost turbo, will be effortless.

Regarding Ben, him and Twigg are excellent. I had them replace an engine last year on a DC5 Integra I had which was totally buggered, plus they did all the specialist work on it too when needed. They're really sound lads, dead helpful and knowledgeable but good lads too. They mainly do Honda's but he's started to get a lot of the Renault Clio and Megane race boys in for setups so they know their way around Renaults. Here's a picture of Clio he setup a few months back.

 

[Euan Baguette]

Throttle bodies just aren’t worth it unless you have already got the car to a very very high level of preparation.
I run a Clio at knockhill( quite a short lap) and if the cars are matched weight wise, it’s almost impossible to notice the cars with bodies over cars with standard engines. Low boost Turbo’d cars are the same. I admit it’s very strange as if I was to gain another 30-40 bhp I’d imagine I would lap faster but it never seems to work out that way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk