Xenon Confusion

[deadonkey]

Hi,

Im a little confused by the whole lights thing. As I understood there are three types:
Crappy Halogen : fitted to crappy cars
Xenon : Better bulbs but still fitted to crappy cars
HID (High Intensity Discharge) : Fitted to not so crappy cars

I remember something when I bought my car about it having Xenon lights and was impressed by the lights when I first got the car. It was a while ago 2002 so I cant really remember.
When the original light bulbs blew as they tend to do I just replaced them with cheap standard (Halogen) bulbs as they were only £2 a piece from TMS my local motor factors compared to say a tenner at Halfords or £7 from renault I believe

Im now confused as I have just searched the forums for Xenon and either I am all confused on the Xenon and HID thing or everyone else is!

I thought they were totally different things and XENON bulbs were filled with xenon gas to produce a white daylight like light compared to halogen bulbs.

HID were a whole lot more expensive and a conversion kit is needed etc and I dont want to go down that road.

I had a look at bulbs in halfords while I was picking up some cleaning equipment and was supprised to see H7 Xenon bulbs selling at £20 each when I looked at ebay they are going for pennies.

What I want to know is the REAL TRUTH about lights, tell me everything that you know.

Over to you clio people!

 

[Graham Gooch]

HID and Xenon lights are the same thing.

The confusion comes when certain manufacturers brand halogen lamps with words xenon technology etc.

Proper Xenon lamps require a starter and ballast to run, they don't come in H* fitment either. They burn xenon gas inside the lamp causing the 'high intensity discharge'.

You won't get many HID kits off a shelf.

 

[Da]

AFAIK Xenon and HID are 2 different things. Xenon's are the cheap crap lamps you refer to from eBay that are standard filament lamps filled with a bit of Xenon gas to help produce the white/blue tinted light as seen on the HID equipped cars.
HID's are High Intensity Discharge lighting as seen on street lights and shops/warehouses etc. 172/182/V6 are all HID equipped, contrary to popular mis understanding they are not Xenons.
At the bottom of the pile is the standard Halogen filament lamps as you refer to which are the crappy orangey/yellow light.
BrianR is the man to speak to, do a search.

 

[Graham Gooch]

AFAIK Xenon and HID are 2 different things. Xenon's are the cheap crap lamps you refer to from eBay that are standard filament lamps filled with a bit of Xenon gas to help produce the white/blue tinted light as seen on the HID equipped cars.
HID's are High Intensity Discharge lighting as seen on street lights and shops/warehouses etc. 172/182/V6 are all HID equipped, contrary to popular mis understanding they are not Xenons.
At the bottom of the pile is the standard Halogen filament lamps as you refer to which are the crappy orangey/yellow light.
BrianR is the man to speak to, do a search.

^^^^ WRONG!

 

[G_F]

HID and Xenon lights are the same thing.

They are completely separate things.

 

[Da]

Thankyou Gav. Ralph, care to expand on WRONG???

Popular misconception doesn't mean it's factually correct.
It's like saying "i'm hoovering" when infact Hoover is a brand name and you're actually using a Vaccuum.

 

[Graham Gooch]

High Intensity Discharge (HID) is a new type of lighting technology that's primarily different from the conventional halogen bulbs that use a heated tungsten filament. Unlike Halogen lamps, High-Intensity-Discharge (HID) lamps don't have a filament but create light by the arc between two electrodes. The arc activates the Xenon, which in turn ignites the metal halide. The light produced by an HID Xenon lighting system is greater than a standard halogen bulb and with less power consumption. On the road, HID Xenon lighting systems appear as a bright white beam which resembles natural daylight. The bright white beam offers greater visibility and road safety.

In an HID Xenon lighting system, the voltage between the two electrodes rises firstly from 12V to 23000V and keeps stable at 8000V by using the Xenon HID ballasts system. Due to the ultra high voltage, the Xenon gas ionises and a super-bright beam is produced, whose colour temperature is up to 12000K. The HID Xenon lighting is much more economic, more stable and brighter than conventional vehicle lighting.

 

[Graham Gooch]

Hid Xenon bulbs are what we have in our 182s etc

Hence why the Renault blurb called them Xenon lights in the brochure.

The reason why people think they are seperate thing is that manuacturers have been making halogen lamps with a small amount of xenon gas inside, they still are filament bulbs though.

 

[Graham Gooch]

Proper Xenon bulbs are D2R or D2S fitment.

 

[G_F]

lol, keep digging at google Ralph, your nearly there.

 

[Da]

I know the technology, but most of that backs up what I've just stated. What site did you pull that detail from, I wouldn't mind having a nosey?

 

[deadonkey]

Ok, so we have established there are three types
Halogen ie H7 fitment STANDARD bulbs

Halogen bulbs with a bit of Xenon gas in ie still H7 fitment

and

HID Xenon bulbs with the ballast etc as fitted to 182's etc

 

[Da]

Yes, in a nutshell.

 

[Graham Gooch]

Thankyou Gav. Ralph, care to expand on WRONG???

Popular misconception doesn't mean it's factually correct.
It's like saying "i'm hoovering" when infact Hoover is a brand name and you're actually using a Vaccuum.

Are you Alan Partridge?

 

[G_F]

When I say Xenons I mean Xenons as in on a Clio 172 or 182. These have washers and can't be adjusted manually. As far as I know they have the adjuster at the rear which compensates for the load in the car to keep the lights pointing where they shound and not into the faces of other motorists.

As for HID headlamps, I was under the impressive this was the type of system used on something like a facelifted Civic Type R for example. They look similar but aren't requried to have the washers.

It's probably me getting my terminolgy wrong, as I said I don't know a great deal about this sort of thing, only that the Clio has Xenon headlamps and is required to have the washers and self leveling. This isn't a problem for me now as the Trophy has cheapo lights.

If you can shed some light on this Brian that would be good?

I guess I'm D/H number 2.

Hi Lee,
No, not counting you or Greg, The D/H,s are the ones that know its wrong and do it anyway.

The difference between HID lights and Xenon lights was the subject of a post I put up a while ago,......

Its simply the case that the commonly used words to describe these lights has become confused. Its like saying you have a Hoover when in fact its a Dyson.

HID is, High Intensity Discharge lamps. They use exactly the same technology as street lights and the bay lights in shops and sports halls.
They use a mixture of gas and metals to produce a plasma when a high current is struck across the terminals.
The gas they use is either Mercury vapour which produces a yellowish light or Sodium which produces a white light more suitable for use in a car.

Xenon bulbs are just high output lamps using Xenon gas instead of Halogen as the blue tinge achieved with Xenon gas has become fashionable as a look-alike for the HID lamps that first appeared on expensive cars but are now common on all cars as an option or top line version of some cars like the Clio.

The easiest way to tell them apart is when they switch on. Xenon come on straight away. HID flicker to life then get up to full brightness in a about 15 - 20 seconds. Thats why they are unsuitable for main beams as the don't "strike" fast enough.

Clio's that have the HID dipped beams have Xenon main beams in a separate reflector.

Some cars, like my 911 have a single HID lamp behind a lens, which produces the oblique cut off for dipped beam and has a mechanical shutter round the bulb which changes the focus on high beam and is also supplemented by a Xenon bulb in a separate reflector on high beam and H/L flash.

The reason this has become so confused is because the accessory market is swamped with Xenon lights marked HID in order to capitalise on the desire for the later.

It is perfectly legal to upgrade a cars lights provided the whole headlight assembly is changed for an e.marked equivalent, and the car is fitted with self levelling headlights and washers.


take a look at this, it explains a bit more..........hope this helps.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/videos/featuresvideos/204742/xenon_test.html

 

[Da]

:lolup: I rest my case...

And ralph, WTF!?

 

[Graham Gooch]

The ironic thing is the OEM Porsche HIDs dazzle me more than any other car.

 

[Graham Gooch]

:lolup: I rest my case...

And ralph, WTF!?

Theres a bit in Alan Partridges first series when he goes on about the misconception of hoovers , vacuums and tannoys.

 

[deadonkey]

So would fitting Halogen Xenon type bulbs be worth it, over standard halogen bulbs?

also can I get them anycheaper than £20 a bulb, I dont really want to resort to dodgy bulbs off ebay.

 

[MRBILLYUK]

Hid Xenon bulbs are what we have in our 182s etc

Hence why the Renault blurb called them Xenon lights in the brochure.

The reason why people think they are seperate thing is that manuacturers have been making halogen lamps with a small amount of xenon gas inside, they still are filament bulbs though.

Correct

 

[Graham Gooch]

So would fitting Halogen Xenon type bulbs be worth it, over standard halogen bulbs?

also can I get them anycheaper than £20 a bulb, I dont really want to resort to dodgy bulbs off ebay.

Why not source a pair of Renault FF 172/182 headlamps with all the bit that go with them.

 

[Gumby]

The ironic thing is the OEM Porsche HIDs dazzle me more than any other car.

The worst for them are the new Disco3's which appear to have much the same type of high beam as the porsche, except stupidly bright

 

[deadonkey]

like these : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CLIO-II-LH-XE...ryZ10410QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

right hand also available for the same price,

Would these be a straight swap for my non HID units, i suspect the plugs etc are totally different

 

[Graham Gooch]

Yep, just need the other one and washer jets!

 

[Toypop]

What a waste of time. All this xenon stuff is a load of b****cks. I owned the 1.2 16v with standard lights and now the 182 and can't tell any difference when driving at night aside from a hint of purple on road signs.

It is just a load of crap so that people with small dappers can advertise the fact that they have the top of the range model. Just how it used to be with front fog lights before most cars had them as standard.

I wouldn't lay out a single penny to get Xenons over standard lights. The only thing you might get out of it is a punch in the face from someone that thinks you have it on high beem to annoy them - I have had loads of people flashing their lights at me for that. If anything the bloody things are going to cause an accident by dazzling someone. Hell its not like I ever ran off the road with the old lights because I couldn't see! I never had any trouble seeing before and nothing has changed.

You would be better off eating more carrots or cleaning off the film that builds up on the inside of your windows!

 

[FiDoDiDo]

Don't you only need washer jets if it's factory fitted?

 

[G_F]

Yep^

 

[Gumby]

What a waste of time. All this xenon stuff is a load of b****cks. I owned the 1.2 16v with standard lights and now the 182 and can't tell any difference when driving at night aside from a hint of purple on road signs.

When I'm not at uni I live in the countryside, (ooohaaaarrr) right out in the sticks, and i can tell you how useful it is to have HID (or Xenon or whatever the proper name is) lights on the Discovery! It makes driving at night indefinately easier. Maybe you won't see much difference when there are streetlamps around but trust me, the lanes I have to potter around on are a nightmare.