Anyone good at diagnosing sounds?

Joe R26 · Apr 27, 2011

Ok so last Sunday I noticed my car making an unusual noise. Originally I thought it was the PAS pump but under closer inspection it sounds like its coming from top end.

I know the common thing seems to be dephaser, so I've taken some vids, if anyone could give me some input? It sounds expensive!.

I've checked the obvious things oil level etc and everything seems fine.

Joe R26 · Apr 27, 2011

Bump!

MicKPM · Apr 27, 2011

Sounds like dephaser yes but without wanting to scare you I recently had a customer car sound the similar and then the day before it was due to come in to have the pulley inspected this happened:

View attachment 56301

Not sure what you're seeing? Maybe these will help!

View attachment 56303 View attachment 56302

Get it checked ASAP is the best advice I can give and fingers crossed the dephaser is the obvious fault.

Mick

Joe R26 · Apr 27, 2011

Thats handy to know Mick lol. What causes a dropped valve?. How can I diagnose weather its the dephaser?.

MicKPM · Apr 27, 2011

Don't worry about dropping a valve as i'm certain you won't walk this path but you should get the dephaser checked ASAP to be on the safe side - To check the dephaser requires the timing belt to be off and the pulley checked for 'play' as there should be no movement what so ever.

Fred@BTM · Apr 27, 2011

^you can do it with the belt still on Mick

Joe R26 · Apr 27, 2011

Fred@BTM said:
^you can do it with the belt still on Mick

How Fred? :dapprove:

MicKPM · Apr 27, 2011

Yeah by removing the top cover and timing plug and working the cam via the set point groove... I don't like that myself as you can damage things that way if something slips.

Fred@BTM · Apr 27, 2011

rip out the cam seal on the inlet cam and use one end of the horse shoe and see if you can wobble the cam without the pulley moving

Joe R26 · Apr 27, 2011

ok lovely thanks. I'll have a look at the weekend maybe. Although I'll need to get some new cam seals to put back.

Fred@BTM · Apr 27, 2011

only need the inlet one, take the sparkplugs out when you do it, then you're not fighting the compression

obviously do it with the engine supported and the cam cover/engine mount upper removed so you can see the belt

Joe R26 · Apr 27, 2011

Ok will let you know how I get on. Thanks Mick & Fred. Most helpful!.

Joe R26 · Apr 28, 2011

Can anyone please confirm these are the tools needed for dephaser replacement...

sprocket locker http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VSE5034-Petro...Tools_Levels&hash=item5addbbeea6&x=35&y=5

cam setting tool and crank pin http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VSE5071-Petro...UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item5d2c4d297d

serpentine belt tool for aux belt http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PRO-MECHANIC-...868?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4156d401a4

MicKPM · Apr 28, 2011

Yes, Yes, and No

Ignore the serpentine belt tool and simply remove the top bolt from the tensioner to release it and then use a large jubilee clip to do it back up. I use a Snap-On serp rachet when I do them but everytime i've attempted to use the 3/8 keyway on a tensioner they've snapped on me so I gave up with them a long time ago (Personal preference though).

Joe R26 · Apr 28, 2011

Ok Mick.

I'm having trouble deciding how far to go with it to be honest. I'm not sure weather to fit a new timing belt kit and aux belt kit. They were both done in 2009 at 36k and its on 63k now. The timing belts not due for ages yet.

Obviously it would be nice to change them all but its all down to finances!.

MicKPM · Apr 28, 2011

Yeah they're not cheap to do even if like myself you can do them yourself but honestly, if you're going to all this effort doing the job "do it once, do it right"... stick the aux belt kit on the shopping list!

sideways danny · Apr 28, 2011

go to renault for the locking tools!!! same price give or take, and a much higher quality

Serpentine tool looks ok, but not what i use

Joe R26 · Apr 28, 2011

I think I've seen your home made jobby Danny

.

Ok I'm waiting on some prices from wests renault on here for the tools. So I'll see what he comes up with.

Is it worth spending the extra money for genuine belt kits?.

MicKPM · Apr 28, 2011

aux belt kits yes, timing belt kits no - Use "Gates" Power grip or "SKF" kits if possible. The Continetal and Dayco kits are good to but the tensioners can be hit and miss.

Joe R26 · Apr 28, 2011

Right I'll have a look into it. I can feel my wallet getting lighter now.

sideways danny · Apr 29, 2011

MicKPM said:
aux belt kits yes, timing belt kits no - Use "Gates" Power grip or "SKF" kits if possible. The Continetal and Dayco kits are good to but the tensioners can be hit and miss.

continental kits use an INA tensioner set which the same as in a gates kit, and Dayco are identical too

jack_kemp · Apr 29, 2011

By the time you've bought all the tools, surely it's worth just taking the car to re tech and getting it done? It's not a job you should have to do again.

Joe R26 · Apr 29, 2011

its not far off Jack, labour is over 200 quid, tools are going to cost me in the region of 100. I've always done my own work in the past on all my motors and i enjoy it, plus i can sell the tools at a later date. I'm not sure what to do yet, its come at a bad time tbh! Always the way.

jack_kemp · Apr 29, 2011

Fair doos mate! I enjoy doing my own work too, but I can't be arsed with stuff like that, even less so when you have to buy the tools!

Joe R26 · May 2, 2011

Anyone know the part numbers for the tools?.

Do I need anything else apart from the Dephaser pulley, camshaft end caps and tools?.

I'm sure I read somewhere you should renew the crank nut/bolt?

It also says in the F4R workshop manual that you should renew the dephaser bolt, exhaust camshaft pulley nut and the phase shifter blanking piece seal?.

Can anyone advise on what I should/shouldn't get?.

Joe R26 · May 2, 2011

Never mind about the part numbers, I've found them

TDC/Crank Pin - 0000105400 - £8.98
Extra Longer Cog + Spacers + Nut - 0000150901 - £16.56
Camshaft Locking Tool - 0000149600 - £40.50
Pulley Locking Tool - 7711381801 - £40.50

For anyone else who needs them.

But can someone confirm what other parts I need to renew?.

sideways danny · May 2, 2011

JRS182 said:
Never mind about the part numbers, I've found them

TDC/Crank Pin - 0000105400 - £8.98
Extra Longer Cog + Spacers + Nut - 0000150901 - £16.56
Camshaft Locking Tool - 0000149600 - £40.50
Pulley Locking Tool - 7711381801 - £40.50

For anyone else who needs them.

But can someone confirm what other parts I need to renew?.

plus the VAT on all of those

Joe R26 · May 2, 2011

Ok Dan. Do I need to renew the crank nut/bolt and/or cam pulley nut/bolt?

Scutch · May 2, 2011

Can't quite get the sound on your vid mate, but does it sound anything like this?

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?576260-Tap-Tap-Tap

Or more a clunky noise?

sideways danny · May 2, 2011

JRS182 said:
Ok Dan. Do I need to renew the crank nut/bolt and/or cam pulley nut/bolt?

I keep a lot of spares and the slightest damage means they get changed. if you're doing it as a 1 off, TBH yeah you may aswell do the lot.

Joe R26 · May 2, 2011

Ok so final checklist...

TDC/Crank Pin - 0000105400 - £8.98
Extra Longer Cog + Spacers + Nut - 0000150901 - £16.56
Camshaft Locking Tool - 0000149600 - £40.50
Pulley Locking Tool - 7711381801 - £40.50

Dephaser pulley
Cam Belt kit
Aux Belt kit

Camshaft end caps
exhaust cam pulley nut
dephaser bolt
dephaser blanking seal (does this not come with a new dephaser?)
camshaft seals (timing end)
crank pulley bolt

???

Joe R26 · May 3, 2011

Ok I've ordered all the gear I need. For anyone elses reference, the exhaust pulley nut, dephaser bolt & plug and camshaft seals(timing side) come in a kit 22.60 + VAT the part number is 7701471629.

And the part number for the crank pulley bolt is 8200608653 8.95 + VAT.

Cupman29 · May 7, 2011

How much is the job costing you in total for parts and tools?

Fancy making a guide to this as I need to do mine soon and can't decide to do myself or take to a dealer?

carlw738 · May 7, 2011

i got the timing nelt kit and auxilary belt kit for just over £200 from reanault. and i renting the tools out from fmp motor factors, for £15 a day

Joe R26 · May 7, 2011

Too much haha. Too late for a guide matey, I'm well over halfway through doing it now. There is a guide on how to do it in the guides section on here. Its helped me alot.

I don't think its that bad a job, bit fiddly in places but not bad. The only thing I lost a lot of time on was the exhaust camshaft pulley nut. Took me ages to get that off.

Parts summery and cost..

Genuine cambelt kit with camshaft end caps (from NWP) - 135 + vat
Genuine aux belt kit - 132.77 + vat
Dephaser Pulley - 168.40 + vat
Genuine oil filter + washer - 7.30 + vat
Elf Evolution SXR 5w40 (from renault) 5L - £40
New dephasher bolt & oil seal, exhaust pulley nut and oil seals - 22.60 + vat
New crank pulley bolt - 8.95 + vat

---
Tools -

cam alignment tool - 48.60 + vat
TDC crank pin - 10.78 + vat
Sprocket locking tool - 49.42 + vat
addition tool for the sprocket locker - 19.87 + vat

I think thats about it, as you can see its not a cheap job and I probably haven't saved much money. But it wasn't about that at the end of the day. I wanted to get my hands dirty.

st3ve · May 7, 2011

Is it necessary to change the oil or you just doing it whilst your there?

Joe R26 · May 7, 2011

Well it was 1k away from a service anyway, so I thought I'd do it all in one hit. Plus my dephaser was shagged, so its best to replace the oil anyway so I've been told.

st3ve · May 7, 2011

Adding all that up I don't think you've saved anything, you'd have spent less taking it to a specialist. :S

Joe R26 · May 7, 2011

I don't really know to be honest.

Rentech my local specialist have the following prices..

for cambelt change with gen cambelt kit and full aux belt kit is £580 thats without dephaser (dephaser is another 170ish)
+ the 12k service which is another 160 quid.

st3ve · May 7, 2011

Oh wait, my bad, mines a cup, never mind then.

Anyone good at diagnosing sounds?

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