Clio Williams 2 - Restoration

[rickyquicky]

Hi everyone

Am now in the process of a complete restoration, and want to keep track with a build thread on here.

Some history on myself the car. Purchased when I was 20 from a dealer, drove it for 6 months or a year, got given a company car, then it sat on my drive for a year or 2 not being used. Made the decision to keep it long term so it got tucked away in a garage where it sat ever since (8 years!)

The aim is to strip to a bare shell, sort out any and all rust/potential rust issues, complete paint inside and out, replace/refurbish all mechanicals and then the long process of finding and replacing the tired interior and exterior trim! I don't have lots of time so I won't be doing much of the work myself apart from the stripping.

Moved the car into the garage at my house last summer, and got the project started! Luckily I have a friendly neighbour that doesn't use their garage and are letting me store all the parts in there!

- engine out, interior out, stripped everything back to shell
- subrame refurbished and powdercoated at Kent Powdercoating
- driveshafts refurbished by Bailey Morris
- Front brake calipers refurbished and painted by BCS

Stripping everything out allowed me to have a good look around the car and last month after finally finding a welder I felt I could trust, the car went away for 2 weeks to his workshop for a good look round the car and doing any repairs neccessary.

 

[rickyquicky]

 

[rickyquicky]

Got the car back last week from welding, new front crossmember installed, arches turned out to be perfect, not even surface rust!

Welder said some small repairs were neccessary to the sills...he's put a little patch in that you can see above, have spoken to him again as i may send it back and have new complete sills welded in both sides just to be safe.

Going to be another £500 or so i think so debating if its worthwhile.

 

[MRBILLYUK]

Watching thread with interest .

 

[rickyquicky]

In the pics of the engine bay you can see big patches of surface rust - this was me earlier in the year with a grinder and paint removing disc taking any paint blisters off to check whats underneath after removing the engine. All good but its now got surface rust everywhere in the engine bay!

Engine bay will obviously be painted eventually but not sure yet how to do it...the whole car at once and build back up, or do engine bay and under car first, engine back in, then inside and out after.

 

[mossyv6]

Hope you carry on with this project but I understand your troubles as restoring a Williams can be a money pit - I did a Williams 2 a few years ago and spent toooooo much, lol.

 

[m&l172ph1]

I Agree on the sills!
I'd replace them or
The other option is if you have that patch repaired properly and get some dinitrol to neutralise any existing rust inside. If the rest of the sills are solid! Then waxoyl once it's painted.
Putting a patch on it like that annoys me!
At least if you're going to put a piece in at least do it so it can't be seen! Just my opinion!

 

[rickyquicky]

I've had the car for years, it was my 2nd car, this restoration will be completed.

I thought about it properly and realistically how much it would cost me, and i've prepared for it. Am hoping to get it at least driveable next summer but I won't be dissapointed if not. As long as progress is being made and everything is being done properly (ie not having to go back over the same things!) then i'm more than happy.

So current situation is the sills, and the patch repair annoys me too, so think i'm going to have to send the car back to him again (£90 for a transporter each way ) and get the sills replaced along their full length which means he can see the inner and treat as neccessary. I'm still not 100% if standard mk1 clio sills are a good fit so I haven't ordered them yet. Anyone replaced sills on a 16v/Williams? What's the best way to do them seeing as only standard sills are available?

 

[Stefan.]

Interested!

Love clio williams

 

[Smiffyboy1990]

Looking forward to seeing this unfold. Love a Williams.

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

 

[Jekyll]

Looking forward to this.

Remember seeing this and speaking to you about it when I picked up a wing from your old ph1.

 

[rickyquicky]

Looking forward to this.

Remember seeing this and speaking to you about it when I picked up a wing from your old ph1.

Haha i remember you saying along the lines of 'no chance' when i said i would have it done in a year (well over a year ago!)

Ive realised i could throw a couple of grand for a 'quick' light restoration, or for the sake of a few grand more and more time end up with a much better car. And that should be more cost effective in the long run.

Its like these sills, annoying going back to get them done all over again when they are decent enough as it is, but if it means having full access to the inner sill, its a repair that will last for 10 years+ as opposed to 5 years for example - then maybe seeing some bubbling coming through. Money well spent imo.

 

[M4ck1]

Haha i remember you saying along the lines of 'no chance' when i said i would have it done in a year (well over a year ago!)

Ive realised i could throw a couple of grand for a 'quick' light restoration, or for the sake of a few grand more and more time end up with a much better car. And that should be more cost effective in the long run.

Its like these sills, annoying going back to get them done all over again when they are decent enough as it is, but if it means having full access to the inner sill, its a repair that will last for 10 years+ as opposed to 5 years for example - then maybe seeing some bubbling coming through. Money well spent imo.

Looking forward to following this. Doing very similar restoration to my Williams 2.
With kids and moving house and other car projects mine has taken 9 Years and still loads to do.
The replacement sills you can get are for a standard mk1 and need to be modified to fit which is a pita. The sill is the same from the front to the end of door then it widens out as the rear has wider arches. The back of the sill is also a different shape. I have done my near side by cutting of the bottom of the sill and then seam welding along which has taken me forever. The far side I will replace the sill upto the door and then the bottom of the rear sill. The other thing is the door sill stickers which I believe aren't cheap will need replacing when you do the full sill.
Good luck I'm sure you will be a lot quicker than me.

 

[rickyquicky]

If you're doing the work yourself i can imagine how long its taking! I hope you persevere with yours and get it done.

Thats why im paying out for all the work, either try to fit it in with commitments and eventually getting pissed off with it, or spend the money and just get it done! Obviously you miss the fun of the build, the learning, being hands on etc but I know i would end up just leaving it as a last priority and never finish it. I can paint and could save a lot of money, but then its the time, borrowing a booth, and if its not 100% you end up leaving it where if youre paying someone they get paid when its 100%.

Good luck with yours where are you based?

 

[rickyquicky]

 

[M4ck1]

If you're doing the work yourself i can imagine how long its taking! I hope you persevere with yours and get it done.



Thats why im paying out for all the work, either try to fit it in with commitments and eventually getting pissed off with it, or spend the money and just get it done! Obviously you miss the fun of the build, the learning, being hands on etc but I know i would end up just leaving it as a last priority and never finish it. I can paint and could save a lot of money, but then its the time, borrowing a booth, and if its not 100% you end up leaving it where if youre paying someone they get paid when its 100%.

Good luck with yours where are you based?

I'd love to in a lot of ways pay somebody to do mine as I so miss driving it.
I've driven a lot of nice fast cars but none were as fun as the Willy on some of the great roads in North Wales. I'm getting back into it again and am just about to tackle the inner wheel arch on the far side and the sill
I live on the Wirral.
I guess you're from down south.
The Williams is certainly going up in value but mines a keeper and once finished will be back out for fun and not a museum piece.

 

[rickyquicky]

Few more pics to give a better idea of the state of the car atm.

Used a paint removing disc to take the arches back a bit to inspect for rust. Not a spot of rust which was very surprising! Apologies for the sloppy use of primer to cover the metal back up 🙈

So have decided to replace the full sills just to be safe and so i can see the inner sill. Even if inner sill perfect i can still clean it out and get some extra protection in there. I dont like the idea of these little 'patch' repairs on the sill either. Seems a shame to do all that work though - whats your opinions if rather than buying new sills, just replacing like a long fabricated 'strip' each side? Basically the whole length that has the stone chip protector so a curved sheet about 4 inches wide and going all the way front to back?

 

[M4ck1]

Few more pics to give a better idea of the state of the car atm.

Used a paint removing disc to take the arches back a bit to inspect for rust. Not a spot of rust which was very surprising! Apologies for the sloppy use of primer to cover the metal back up 🙈

So have decided to replace the full sills just to be safe and so i can see the inner sill. Even if inner sill perfect i can still clean it out and get some extra protection in there. I dont like the idea of these little 'patch' repairs on the sill either. Seems a shame to do all that work though - whats your opinions if rather than buying new sills, just replacing like a long fabricated 'strip' each side? Basically the whole length that has the stone chip protector so a curved sheet about 4 inches wide and going all the way front to back?

It's a long way to seam weld which is what I did with standard mk1 sill which I cut. When I do the other side I'm using a standard mk1 sill upto the door and then cutting, possibly 4", off the bottom of the standard sill so I don't have the wider part problem

 

[m&l172ph1]

If possible I would cut the sill off just below the raised swage about 1/4" down as the swage would keep the strength in the sill for less distortion. But it'll need to be but welded in which will take a good day or so to weld in very slowly tacking it 4-5" apart along the sill and letting it cool. then repeat. A lap joint is what most people will do as it's easier. But if you can't seal it properly from the inside it a damp/water trap.
Here's a rear arch I butt welded into a mk1 lotus cortina.

 

[rickyquicky]

Why has this thread been moved here?

Can a mod move back to projects please?

 

[rickyquicky]

So been talking to the welder, about redoing the sills he's just done - and getting them done across their length. Got this back from him today:

"Have worked out figures on sills for clio. providing you remove all sealer. Mastic,brake pipes,petrol tank and mastic sound deadner inside car by where sills are attached. 800 labour. 70 materials. And 60 each way pick and deliver. Ive a big job on a Porsche coming in,which would give u time to do the work u need to do.cheers ricky"

So looking at £870 on top of £1100 ive already spent.

That will be near enough £2000 on just a bit of welding. Does that sound steep £870 for the sills (not including any paint) Not sure how to proceed now.

 

[yeecup]

No idea on cost, but sounds like this resto is going to cost £££££ .

 

[terryc101]

So been talking to the welder, about redoing the sills he's just done - and getting them done across their length. Got this back from him today:

"Have worked out figures on sills for clio. providing you remove all sealer. Mastic,brake pipes,petrol tank and mastic sound deadner inside car by where sills are attached. 800 labour. 70 materials. And 60 each way pick and deliver. Ive a big job on a Porsche coming in,which would give u time to do the work u need to do.cheers ricky"

So looking at £870 on top of £1100 ive already spent.

That will be near enough £2000 on just a bit of welding. Does that sound steep £870 for the sills (not including any paint) Not sure how to proceed now.

Not including paint that sounds very steep imo. How are the inner sills? Would he just be replacing the outers?

I got a quote on my mk1 recently of £1200, that was both sills inc some patching of the near side inner, drivers side arch cut out and replaced and paint.

 

[rickyquicky]

Yes that quote is just replacing the outers. The reason was purely to check and treat the inners. Ive already had the repairs done that were needed.

Turns out last night i can see the back bit of the inner arch through the inside rear quarter where i have removed the rear 'door card' and they actually look very good, so may leave the repairs as they are, but treat the inside of the sills where they meet the outer from inside the car as an added bit of protection.

Can anyone recommend a good product so spray inside the sills as added protection? Not waxoyl.

 

[m&l172ph1]

@rickyquicky check out the dinitrol range they have some with rust inhibitors etc you can get a whole kit from them. To neutralise and protect!
Sounds like he doesn't want to do it to be honest. I used to charge £35 an hour and started charging £40 but I think £800's not far off! I would been around the £600 mark.

 

[m&l172ph1]

The other you could possibly to is pour a bottle of Hammerite rust eater into the sills first from the rear if you have the cards out? Jack up the rear of the car so it'll all run forward??

 

[Mr R.]

Yes that quote is just replacing the outers. The reason was purely to check and treat the inners. Ive already had the repairs done that were needed.

Turns out last night i can see the back bit of the inner arch through the inside rear quarter where i have removed the rear 'door card' and they actually look very good, so may leave the repairs as they are, but treat the inside of the sills where they meet the outer from inside the car as an added bit of protection.

Can anyone recommend a good product so spray inside the sills as added protection? Not waxoyl.

I'd also have a look at the Bilt Hamber stuff, very good and I use there wax oil on my impreza. [emoji106]

http://www.bilthamber.com

 

[marc1330]

+1 for the bilthammer, The stuff i use on my mini is the Dynax stuff.

 

[rickyquicky]

Cheers for the recommendations :up:

Just went on the frost website its pretty expensive on there but got some decent bits.

Just bought a can of dinitrol rc900 rust converter/sealer which im going to use inside the car for any light surface rust, 5L por15 metal prep/rust converter for sloshing inside the sills as m&l172 said and various other bits.

They do this eastwood internal chassiscoating spray with a long bendy 'hose' that lets you get right inside sills, chassis legs etc. Wonder if its any good as id like to get rust treatment in those places first (chassis legs will be hard as it will all pour straight out!) and then seal afterwards with the eastwood stuff

http://www.frost.co.uk/eastwood-internal-frame-chassis-coating-with-spray-nozzle.html

Will have a look at bilthamber site when the boss goes out!

Got a painter booked in to come round tonight, im going to get him to do the respray inside and out, but im going to do engine bay and possibly redo the bottom of the floorpan...thinking back to bare metal, epoxy 2 pack, primer sealer or a topcoat, layer of stone chip. Never done the bottom of a car before so Need to work out the paint 'build up' there usually. Will be self explanatory when i get under the car properly i suppose!

 

[rickyquicky]

@rickyquicky check out the dinitrol range they have some with rust inhibitors etc you can get a whole kit from them. To neutralise and protect!
Sounds like he doesn't want to do it to be honest. I used to charge £35 an hour and started charging £40 but I think £800's not far off! I would been around the £600 mark.

Thanks for that, i was told he would be dear but i thought that would = top work. Im happy with the bits he's done apart from that patch on the sill.

Spoke to him today and he agreed full sills arent worth doing as the inners are good. I awkwardly said im not happy with the patch on the sill (i am happy but everyone seems to be saying a proper job is a butt weld)

So he's going to redo the patch and butt weld it flush - now im not sure how much i should be paying for him to redo it. He should be paid as he's done a decent job but at the same time he knew i was fussy so dont know why he patched it like that if butt welding is the 'proper' way. What do you think i should pay m&l172? 100% to redo the patch? Or go 50/50 etc..?

 

[m&l172ph1]

@rickyquicky, it's a hard one, I'd personally never do repair like that but that's just my standards. Everything else looks good but std panel replacement. Maybe just speak to him and see? It shouldn't take more than a couple of hours. It's just the cost of the transporting it back and forth?

 

[rickyquicky]

@rickyquicky, it's a hard one, I'd personally never do repair like that but that's just my standards. Everything else looks good but std panel replacement. Maybe just speak to him and see? It shouldn't take more than a couple of hours. It's just the cost of the transporting it back and forth?

Yeah he's offering £60 each way now as he can use a trailer, £120 before even touching the car.

I might be tight and trailer it to him instead and try work out a deal to do the patch on the sill again.

Shame your not more local!

 

[rickyquicky]

 

[rickyquicky]

Thats the inner sills so definately not bothering with any more work. A bit of a slosh with rust converter for 20 minutes and maybe the eastwood internal frame coating for long term protection.

Get the patch on sill redone then fingers crossed can really start getting it moving

 

[Will16V]

Those inner sills look pretty damn good for a 20+ year old Renault! Not bad at all. Good luck and keep at it!

Its funny to think that you can in theory pick up a fair Williams needing TLC for around £3K, but if they need this amount of work, then perhaps the £5/6/7K + price tags on better cars are actually not too bad, taking into account resto costs for a cheaper car.

 

[m&l172ph1]

View attachment 164414 View attachment 164415 View attachment 164417 View attachment 164418 View attachment 164419

Not a lot wrong with those sills!
Definitely not worth doing!
I used to be in southend!
We only moved here just over a year ago!

 

[M4ck1]

Not a lot wrong with those sills!
Definitely not worth doing!
I used to be in southend!
We only moved here just over a year ago!

 

[M4ck1]

I agree. My sill I'm presently finishing off was bad at the ends but solid the rest of the way through. Looking back I would have been better repairing both ends and saved myself a whole lot of hassle.

 

[rickyquicky]

So a tiny update...

Not had loads of time to spend on the car the last few months, so have been trying to accumulate parts here and there ready for the rebuild.

Nearly ready to get the engine bay and underside of car painted, but want to get the rear beam sorted before i do anything else.

Stripped as much as 'easily' comes off...just not sure what to do now really.

The centre and torsion bars themselves are in good nick, just need a clean up. So not sure whether to take the torsion bars out and get it all sand blasted/powder coated, or possibly just get the mounts and arms done (basically the bits either end) and leave the rest.

Are the rubber bushes for these still available anywhere?

 

[m&l172ph1]

Any progress?
Did you get that patch sorted yet?