Is this garage having my pants down?

[John.]

Easy way to check if it's the dephaser, at idle it will sound like a tractor/clicky/horrible noise. The noise should go away about 1500rpm or under load. If this is the case then it's the dephaser. If it runs like a bag of nails throughout the rev range then he messed up, simple as.

Sounds pretty suspect that the cam locking tool wouldn't fit.

 

[welshname]

If it's idling like crap then the timing is out. I'd suggest they haven't a clue what they are doing. If you can get them to send you a picture of the horse shoe shaped tool in the end of the cams. If you're timing is spot on you should be able to do this with it in place:

 

[JamesBryan]

Ive already phoned trading standards and basically it looks quite a bit of hassle. He says he's only charging me for the dephaser £186 and not the labour, and it needed doing anyway because it was on its way out, the evidence for this he says is because the camshaft tool wouldn't fit at the start. He says normally when he resets the dephaser for the tool to lock the camshaft at the end, 9 times out of10 it works, but this time it hasn't worked.
There was no noise from the dephaser when the car went in and now he's saying the tool wouldn't fit in at the start, is this even a genuine problem that a failing dephaser causes?

Pretty sure you don't 'reset' the depasher pulley to get the camshaft locking tool in.

They've fucked it.

 

[R3k1355]

They've made a f**king mess of it and are still trying to charge you through the nose for their s**t job.

 

[loggyboy]

The only way a dephaser would break would be if they physically damaged. If it was silent before it wouldn't just go - and if it did go it would be a light rattle. a worn dephaser just carrys on working, but with a noise. It would not cause issues with running etc.

You are being roggered. However its gonna be fun and games to ensure a fair outcome.
I would:
Tell them you know its not the case that dephasers 'just break' after taking expert advice.
You believe they have made an error and you want the car returned working at no extra cost.
If they refuse tell them you want the car with nothing owed, and you will be taking to an expert to report/repair and they will receive the bill thats over and above whats been quoted.
If you have paid or are forced/inclined to pay to get the car back - pay on a credit card.

 

[Mariusz]

Agree with the above, sounds like they are trying to pull your pants down.

 

[Hendo90]

Cheers for the advice people, really appreciate it.
Just wish I'd have done a bit more research before letting this clown loose on me car.
Honestly don't know what im going to do with it here cos he isn't going to give me the car back without paying for the job, despite it being fucked. And I dont trust that if he changes the dephaser its magically going to correct itself.

is this cambelt change on a 182 exactly the same as it would be on any other clio or megane etc.?

I'm going to see him now so will keep you's updated

 

[welshname]

Nope, F4R is completely different to the standard cars.

 

[Hendo90]

Well according to him it is so that's all I needed to know

 

[Mavez]

Well according to him it is so that's all I needed to know

So according to him the F4R is the same as changing the belt on a D4F, Ok then...

 

[Ol’ Tarby]

He may class hismelf as a Renault "specialist" but he certainly aint a RenaultSport and F4R specialist.

The timing procedure is quite sensitive on these engines, and its very easy to balls it up, which it sounds like he has.

I think this is going to be an expensive lesson as I can see you taking it somewhere else to rectify it, if he can't do it himself.

 

[JamesBryan]

The only one it's similar too is the Megane F4Rt 225/R26, even then there will be differences. One being that they don't have a dephaser.

 

[Hendo90]

So according to him the F4R is the same as changing the belt on a D4F, Ok then...

Aye this is what he's been saying, they're all the same apparently, he's done hundreds of them.
I said so youve done hundreds of 182's have you? And his reply was no but they're all the same. He's never done one of these by the sounds of it. Also he keeps showing me a programme on his computer telling him how to do the fucker, surely a renault specialist wouldn't have to refer to drawings and instructions?
He's had me life here

 

[JamesBryan]

Can you see this?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8a6L1Tl3iG3RWNUOFU0bWlPQkE/view?usp=sharing

Give it him and tell him to read it lol

 

[loggyboy]

Nope, F4R is completely different to the standard cars.

K4M is nearly identical, and very common engine. (in respect of cambelt style/procedure)

Honestly don't know what im going to do with it here cos he isn't going to give me the car back without paying for the job,

If you do pay, make sure you pay on a credit card, that covers you.

 

[masekwm]

Renault Specialist -> 1.2 Clios & 1.6 Meganes
v
RenaultSport Specialist...

Also, I believe the program he is using is wrong on the belt change

 

[Mavez]

Aye this is what he's been saying, they're all the same apparently, he's done hundreds of them.
I said so youve done hundreds of 182's have you? And his reply was no but they're all the same. He's never done one of these by the sounds of it. Also he keeps showing me a programme on his computer telling him how to do the fucker, surely a renault specialist wouldn't have to refer to drawings and instructions?
He's had me life here

Renault Specialist -> 1.2 Clios & 1.6 Meganes
v
RenaultSport Specialist...

Also, I believe the program he is using is wrong on the belt change

Yeah probably dialogys, which if I remember someone said had the incorrect instructions on locking the cams to loosen and re-tighten.

 

[Budgie]

I thought it was Autodata that was wrong?

@Scrooge Possible he's got a cam in 180* out?

 

[Mavez]

I thought it was Autodata that was wrong?

@Scrooge Possible he's got a cam in 180* out?

Yeah I think you're right.
Like one above and one below the centre line?

 

[JamesBryan]

I thought it was Autodata that was wrong?

@Scrooge Possible he's got a cam in 180* out?

I was thinking that...

 

[Rob]

Best resolution here would be to pay on a credit card then get it into an actual specialist to do it again. Make a bit of a deal that if they do the work, they take 20 mins and write you a report as to how it was wrong. Send this off to your credit card company and ask for them to refund the amount.

 

[welshname]

I thought it was Autodata that was wrong?

@Scrooge Possible he's got a cam in 180* out?

Timing tool wouldn't fit in at all then. You'd have to have them both 180 out to get it to fit as they'd never line up at any angle otherwise.

 

[leedsboy]

Sounds like an expensive mistake to make. I know it's no use but that's why I took mine to Mick at Diamond Motors.

 

[masekwm]

I thought it was Autodata that was wrong?

@Scrooge Possible he's got a cam in 180* out?

Surely that wouldn't had lunch of the valves on start up?

 

[Scrooge]

Yep, 180 out isn't possible at all.

What's happened is; they either haven't evened out the tension across the belt therefore the belt has lost tension or they didn't put the tdc pin in correctly.

Or they've done it all correct but are trying to milk you out of a little bit more money.

 

[welshname]

Yep, 180 out isn't possible at all.

What's happened is; they either haven't evened out the tension across the belt therefore the belt has lost tension or they didn't put the tdc pin in correctly.

Or they've done it all correct but are trying to milk you out of a little bit more money.

Having both 180 out could be done, but the top bolt wouldn't go into the cam cover. Does sound like he's got the TDC pin in a balancing hole though. I assume he's clever enough to get the tools in but the balancing hole is far too easy to do

 

[Baloo198484]

I took mine to Mick at diamond motors he's really good at doing them he let me watch him do the whole job I traveled from Leeds to Nottingham just to get it done all genuine parts used its worth traveling

 

[Scrooge]

Having both 180 out could be done, but the top bolt wouldn't go into the cam cover. Does sound like he's got the TDC pin in a balancing hole though. I assume he's clever enough to get the tools in but the balancing hole is far too easy to do

But the engine would contact if it was 180 out

 

[JamesBryan]

Both can't be 180 out as Scrooge says, one could be though.

 

[welshname]

Both can't be 180 out as Scrooge says, one could be though.

But the timing tool wouldn't fit if one was 180 out so he couldn't possibly have done that assuming he's using tools and not just tippex.

 

[JamesBryan]

Why wouldn't it fit in?

 

[levaz]

Why wouldn't it fit in?

because the timing slots on the camshafts are off centre

 

[JamesBryan]

because the timing slots on the camshafts are off centre

The tool will still slot in and 'align' the cams, the securing bolt is the only bit that will not go in then.

Maybe he's just slotted the tool in and gone 'yep, that fits' and not secured it?

 

[levaz]

no, as one cam will have the slot above centre, and one will be below.

---------------- __________

Align them with a dead straight line.

If both are 180' out, then the securing bolt won't fit.
But you'll also get 16 bent valves fairly instantly

 

[JamesBryan]

Oh, i thought it was still possible.

 

[Dantheman_102]

Hello mate... I know this probably isn't of great help to you now, but for future reference if you need your car sorting in Newcastle,speak to Trevor at DTM Cars. They deal in Renaultsport Clios all the time and are genuine specialists. I bought mine there and it's been no bother.

 

[loggyboy]

It is possible to set one at 180 as I have done it. luckily I noticed before I got too far. Its less likely if you bolt the tool to the rocker, but if lazy he may not have done that.

 

[levaz]

It is possible to set one at 180 as I have done it. luckily I noticed before I got too far. Its less likely if you bolt the tool to the rocker, but if lazy he may not have done that.

I have absolutely no idea how you managed that then as even without bolting it in, it won't slot in properly unless to tool is bent.
I've only ever seen it done once, and that was by a garage using tippex.
They diagnosed an ECU issue as timing being out, so reset it with the exhaust cam at 180'

 

[loggyboy]

Of course it will, it means both cams will be a little bit out:

 

[Hendo90]

Hello mate... I know this probably isn't of great help to you now, but for future reference if you need your car sorting in Newcastle,speak to Trevor at DTM Cars. They deal in Renaultsport Clios all the time and are genuine specialists. I bought mine there and it's been no bother.

Yeah mate ive spoke to Trevor a couple of weeks ago as I was looking at a different 182 he had for sale. Genuine bloke who seemed to know what he was talking about, felt a bit shite going to him as I went and bought a different car a couple of days later.