LSD - talk to me

[MG cup]

Mines is a grower not a show'r.

Quaifes for cruising, Grippers for thrashing, that's a fair anology.

Edit: re wobbler quote which I'm guessing is at me, its called having an educated opinion and not needing to rely on someone else to tell me who, what, where or why. If I have an an opinion on something its usually a strong one and 90 % of the time I have researched it or been taught it

 

[Chip-mk1]

That's very nice of you - I'm sure if we compare penis sizes first it'll be fine

You will win that one I reckon

Mine is really a rubbish size sadly mate, it's a real hindrance at times. Its like trying to trackday a bus at times so I'm sure I will be very jealous of your better sized much more nimble one.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Mines is a grower not a show'r.

Quaifes for cruising, Grippers for thrashing, that's a fair anology.

Why would you need an LSD for cruising?
quaiffes are for cornering hard without having to compromise manners. Perfect all rounder diff for a road used trackday car.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Is that Donnington Tony? The 2nd tier of that kerb looks sore.


You would be going some left foot braking at the type of corner (tight mid speed) you typically lift a wheel, a sequential box you might manage but it's just not a feasible option afaic. I would think the diff will not function right from when it hits the kerbs until after its on the ground and its settled again so quite a time to not be pushing forward.

1st pic is Brands, 2nd is Donny chicane. The previous vid is of the same chicane, so you can see where the power is applied, it's not too bad if you ask me.

As I've already said, different circumstances, and I would have had a Gripper, but there you go. If I start finishing last, then I'll think about a change.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Well you've certainly had your money's worth out the quaiffe and by the sounds of it would turn a profit if you had to sell it on.

 

[Tony Hunter]

It's staying for now Chip, no plans to change at all.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Edit: re wobbler quote which I'm guessing is at me, its called having an educated opinion and not needing to rely on someone else to tell me who, what, where or why. If I have an an opinion on something its usually a strong one and 90 % of the time I have researched it or been taught it

No wasn't aimed at you at all mate. Obviously you were totally misinformed in the first place about the quaiffe but i can see the difference between that and intentional trolling. Its not your fault youve read some exagerated reviews and i can see you have been doing your best to try and relay the things you have read about them as best you can. Just not much point doing so to someone whos used them for 20 year and still owns 3 cars with them in currently. Lol.


Wasn't really aimed at anyone specific tbh although slightly directed towards Phil as it was a reply to him and he does like a bit of a dummy spit now and then, but that's allowed anyway caused he's been diagnosed so has an excuse.

 

[Chip-mk1]

It's staying for now Chip, no plans to change at all.

Makes sense unless someone starts offering you a swap or something
I'd not pick one for a racer but I'd not be disappointed to buy a racer with one fitted. They still work miles better than standard and you certainly know how to get the best from yours

 

[MG cup]

No wasn't aimed at you at all mate. Obviously you were totally misinformed in the first place about the quaiffe but i can see the difference between that and intentional trolling. Its not your fault youve read some exagerated reviews and i can see you have been doing your best to try and relay the things you have read about them as best you can. Just not much point doing so to someone whos used them for 20 year and still owns 3 cars with them in.

I'm not referencing google to argue my point, maybe on the gear wear problem I might have, I have been around ATB's you know.

And just for balance, you try to belittle with your last comments of a 'debate' frequently, please don't try and make it sound like I was speaking rubbish, 2 guys who use them competitively agreed with my points in here and you also agreed that higher power cars multiply their flaws which means there are flaws wether or not you drive within them is your deal.

Dont take the cruising example so literally, I'm not talking about people that meet up in a car park, I mean not ideal for adventurous driving.

 

[MG cup]

1st pic is Brands, 2nd is Donny chicane. The previous vid is of the same chicane, so you can see where the power is applied, it's not too bad if you ask me.

As I've already said, different circumstances, and I would have had a Gripper, but there you go. If I start finishing last, then I'll think about a change.

Yeah first looks like bottom of graham hill where I thought you would get air.

Donnington the same, get the power on before the corner or well before exit for a run down the straight.

I understand your reasoning totally, my points in here are purely what's best, not what's cheaper to buy, fit, service, oil type etc.

 

[Tony Hunter]

1st is Surtees, along the back of the pits.

I was just trying to explain why, when I say a Gripper is better, but actually have a Quaife.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I'm not referencing google to argue my point, maybe on the gear wear problem I might have, I have been around ATB's you know.

And just for balance, you try to belittle with your last comments of a 'debate' frequently, please don't try and make it sound like I was speaking rubbish, 2 guys who use them competitively agreed with my points in here and you also agreed that higher power cars multiply their flaws which means there are flaws wether or not you drive within them is your deal.

Dont take the cruising example so literally, I'm not talking about people that meet up in a car park, I mean not ideal for adventurous driving.

People agreed with some of your points, as did I as some of them were very true, and some of your other points were utter nonsense (like the only ever one wheel drive comment for instance), hence me referring to them as such and hence no one agreed with them.

Anyway, lets not go round in circles debating what was said in the debate, I think that between us there is a reasonable description of the good and bad points of each type of diff in this thread now, so anyone who takes the time to read the whole thing should be able to come away with some useful info and can always ask if there is something they need clarification on.

 

[Tony Hunter]

At last.

 

[Cup_Phil]

You will win that one I reckon

Mine is really a rubbish size sadly mate, it's a real hindrance at times. Its like trying to trackday a bus at times so I'm sure I will be very jealous of your better sized much more nimble one.

Fair play that actually made me LOL in real life.

1st pic is Brands, 2nd is Donny chicane. The previous vid is of the same chicane, so you can see where the power is applied, it's not too bad if you ask me.

As I've already said, different circumstances, and I would have had a Gripper, but there you go. If I start finishing last, then I'll think about a change.

It's staying for now Chip, no plans to change at all.

These are the main reasons I think I'll be going with a quaife. Watching the donington vid (and other burpspeed vids) I think it's more than good enough for me. I might regret it in the future when I'm hammering over rumble strips on too wheels but I don't think I will and for now the extra £4-600 that a gripper would cost is better spent on rod bolts, belts, dephasers and cams IMO.
Plus I can always have a year with the quaife - sell it on and buy a gripper without losing much money.

Thanks for everyones input. Very informative thread!

 

[Chip-mk1]

At the point in time you are at now, keeping standard Ph2 final drive makes sense, as if you go for a lower one then ring trips will be a ballache with it sat at 5Krpm on the motorway to make any progress, so it probably makes a lot of sense doing it the way round that you are, as if you decide the competition stuff is really for you and your driving is at a level its worth really developing the car and sacrificing road manners in a year or two, then you will want to change ratio at that point anyway (and close up fifth too probably), so you will be having to do all the work again anyway irrelevant of if its a gripper or quaiffe you fit now anyway, and you'll sell a ph2 ratio'd box with speed sender in it very easy with a quaiffe as thats one that will fit any 172/182 perfectly.
So I reckon quaiffe yours, and then keep an eye out for a good ph1/ early ph2/cup box (you cna use ph1 if you are changing to a gripper final drive) to grab as a spare and then later on you can gripper that with a lower FD and a lower 5th, and then swap them over and sell the quaiffe one.

 

[MG cup]

I'll agree to disagree and let you have the last word.

 

[Cup_Phil]

That's exactly the plan. Got 1 or 2 sessions of Time Attack to do - depending on how I get on in that I might do that full time 2015.
Also doing some sprints to see how I enjoy them.

Not sure I want to get into bumper to bumper racing just yet but we'll see.

Sprints you've got starts to worry about and everythings cold, whereas time attack is laps, the cars warm and you don't have to worry about starts. So what happens next year will dictate how the car evolves I think.

 

[Chip-mk1]

That's exactly the plan. Got 1 or 2 sessions of Time Attack to do - depending on how I get on in that I might do that full time 2015.
Also doing some sprints to see how I enjoy them.

Not sure I want to get into bumper to bumper racing just yet but we'll see.

Sprints you've got starts to worry about and everythings cold, whereas time attack is laps, the cars warm and you don't have to worry about starts. So what happens next year will dictate how the car evolves I think.

Sounds like a plan.

Would a honda not be more competitive though? FLOL

 

[Cup_Phil]

Don't you start LOL

Already getting it in the neck from my mates for not selling the Clio and getting a DC5

 

[Chip-mk1]

DC5 you say?

Great for ring trips
Good strong gearbox
LSD As standard
Tunable engine
Decent chassis and suspension platform

etc etc


FLOL

 

[Cup_Phil]

Gah. Don't start.

I've already turned down 2 offers on the Clio and decided to finish it lol

 

[mark123]

Yeah I wouldn't choose a clio for competition purposes if starting again.

They're cheap to buy and get to comply with the safety regs but expensive to get competitive.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yes... but... me and my mate (he's got an EP3) were looking at the time attack lap times from Donington. Based on this years lap times he would have been 2nd and I only need to gain 4 seconds to be in the top 3. Considering I have no diff, run rainsports and my only session at Donington was in the damp and I'd never been on the circuit before - I'm pretty sure I can get the clio competitive for that.

Tin tops / french series - no way. I'd have to chuck so much money at it that it would fully be a better idea to just buy a DC2 integra, chuck a K20 in it and wipe the floor with everything.

 

[BIGASH]

You'd have fun trying to race an Integra in the FRENCH series

 

[mark123]

Yes... but... me and my mate (he's got an EP3) were looking at the time attack lap times from Donington. Based on this years lap times he would have been 2nd and I only need to gain 4 seconds to be in the top 3. Considering I have no diff, run rainsports and my only session at Donington was in the damp and I'd never been on the circuit before - I'm pretty sure I can get the clio competitive for that.

Tin tops / french series - no way. I'd have to chuck so much money at it that it would fully be a better idea to just buy a DC2 integra, chuck a K20 in it and wipe the floor with everything.

The small amount of sprints I did, the Clio had its arse kicked by Hondas, that was in a std class. You already have enough mods to put you in the heavily modified classes in sprinting I would have thought.

 

[Cup_Phil]

You'd have fun trying to race an Integra in the FRENCH series

Yeah but I hear they do pretty well in tin tops

 

[BIGASH]

Yeah but I hear they do pretty well in tin tops

They do but you aren't allowed to change from the original engine for Tintops! Flawed plan on all sides lol

 

[Cup_Phil]

Not so bad if you start with a DC5 though! Worlds 2nd most powerful engine per litre (behind a ferrari lump)

 

[NorthloopCup]

DC5 you say?

Great for ring trips
Good strong gearbox
LSD As standard
Tunable engine
Decent chassis and suspension platform

etc etc


FLOL

I'll add the bits that chip has forgotten:

Look the bollox and go like a cat with mustard on its arsehole when turboed. Lol!

Wind ups aside though, you could consider changing your 5th gear ratio rather than the f/d. From speaking with James about it after tony mentioned it in one of my posts, it sounds like it gives a good all round improvement to the way the cars drive. Only downside that I could think of was hitting the limiter in 5th at the ring in some areas. I'm definitely giving it some thought though.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I would definitely never change my 5th gear. Dunno if it's just the cup but it revs too much at motorway speeds anyway - and it definitely needed more at the ring

I've never got into 5th on a UK track so not sure where I'd get an advantage from that

 

[Chip-mk1]

I would definitely never change my 5th gear. Dunno if it's just the cup but it revs too much at motorway speeds anyway - and it definitely needed more at the ring

I've never got into 5th on a UK track so not sure where I'd get an advantage from that

When you change the final drive, you end up revving out in 4th then.

So you wont need to change the fifth till after you change the final drive.

 

[Tony Hunter]

I would definitely never change my 5th gear. Dunno if it's just the cup but it revs too much at motorway speeds anyway - and it definitely needed more at the ring

I've never got into 5th on a UK track so not sure where I'd get an advantage from that

When you start going/getting faster, you will need to get into 5th. (maybe that's telling you something), and with a standard 5th, you will find yourself going backwards as soon as you've changed.

I know Mark does it at the ring, but that like driving on the motorway.

I'd go for a Honda.

 

[Toastfrenzy]

I would definitely never change my 5th gear. Dunno if it's just the cup but it revs too much at motorway speeds anyway - and it definitely needed more at the ring

I've never got into 5th on a UK track so not sure where I'd get an advantage from that

I'm using 5th on a fair few tracks and thinking of changing the 5th ratio the next time the box is out.

Ah, just seen the Hunters post above, it's got no poke and merely gives the engine a breather\lowers the revs

 

[mark123]

You can do it with the box in can't you?

 

[Tony Hunter]

You can do it with the box in can't you?

Do what?

 

[mark123]

Change 5th.

 

[Chip-mk1]

yeah although you will need to drop it down to get enough access

 

[Tony Hunter]

Yes indeed you can, it's a squeeze. but doable. Fred did James in situ.

 

[BIGASH]

Ah, just seen the Hunters post above, it's got no poke and merely gives the engine a breather\lowers the revs

The 37/33 gear ratio for 5th (The one I have swapped to) creates less rev drop so when you select 5th you are now going to be higher in the rev range and probably in a more powerful area of the power band.

Before I swapped I was getting into 5th and it was bogging down horribly, much better now but it made hardly any difference to lap time or peak speed.

 

[Porkie]

With the correct oil the Gripper isnt loud or clunky at all. Its totally normal really. Mines driven to Ring 5 times, done loads of road miles. No problem at all.