Mk2 Clio - AutoSOLO to RallyCross

[James363]

Aha yeah amount of times I've strapped myself in with the door open! I forgot to mention tyres, but I would even go as far as to say that tyres are the first place to start, presuming the suspension is in fully working order. You'll want a good set on the front at the very least, and a couple of spares. I wouldn't bother putting expensive wheels on really, in targas and road rallies it's easy to bend one. If you can get steel wheels, they are easy to bend back with a hammer! Details of which tyres are allowed at which events can be found in the blue book.

 

[AlanWak]

Aha yeah amount of times I've strapped myself in with the door open! I forgot to mention tyres, but I would even go as far as to say that tyres are the first place to start, presuming the suspension is in fully working order. You'll want a good set on the front at the very least, and a couple of spares. I wouldn't bother putting expensive wheels on really, in targas and road rallies it's easy to bend one. If you can get steel wheels, they are easy to bend back with a hammer! Details of which tyres are allowed at which events can be found in the blue book.

TBH I wouldn't put tyres high on the list. I've seen a car roll on a rally due to too sticky tyres combined with too soft suspension. I've had some great results with old, random tyres. I've only ever encountered one pair of tyres which were truly awful. I still have them for Autotests as it's easy to spin the car with them on the back!

At first you'll have way too many other things to think about. Use up what tyres you have then look to better tyres. I use Michelin Pilot Sport 3s on Autosolos and Sprints, they work well in all conditions. All the competitors on the first ever round of the Bristol MC Clio Cup Championship were on Michelins. Uniroyal RainSport 3 tyres are good and cheap, just pump them up a little harder as they have soft sidewalls.

Good recommendation on steel wheels for rougher surfaces, a hammer normally sorts them out.

Some with lower powered cars run narrower tyres on the rear as they don't have to do much. I put my newer tyres on the rear for asphalt, wear them down there then move to the front. The fronts take far more abuse on a FWD car, I normally use between 1 and 2mm per Autosolo. I take very little off the rears. Targas can be far more destructive - I went through four tyres last Sunday, but they were pretty tired anyway - I use tyres I wouldn't use anywhere else on Targas if it's dry.

 

[James363]

Fair, yeah I didn't think about the possibility of flipping on soft suspension! I've had a few sets of very bad tyres, so I usually stay away from anything old and cracked.
I was lucky enough to leave on the same set I arrived at last Sunday, some second hand Nankang NS2R's, although I did have some spares.

 

[Jaack]

Well I guess I'm lucky in that I've got steelies & all 4 tyres have got pretty good tread on them!
I think for now top priority is to get the car MOT'd so I'll be changing the driveshaft which will HOPEFULLY get rid of that clunking noise, might even look at the wheel bearing whilst I'm at it.
Then next step is suspension, drop it 20-30mm all round & then I'm just going to do a few solos & I can see from there then what needs changing/upgrading, but the first 2 races are just going to be me enjoying myself I think Iol & then look at doing a few Targas, 12 cars etc.
Anything I could give a look over on the back end of the car whilst I got it up on the axles & wheels off?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[James363]

Have a look at the rear wheel bearings for play, and the rear axle bushes. Check the handbrake works both sides. Check for any obvious bending or other damage or corrosion, but other than that there's not a lot going on on the rear.

 

[AlanWak]

Good check list. The only other things I can think of is are the rear shocks, I've blown a few. You'll see if oil is leaking. Check the brake pipes as well, but the MOT man will pick that up if there are issues, same with the shocks.

 

[AlanWak]

James, how did you find the Nankangs at Wethersfield? Probably great on the clean parts.

I had some old A048 on the front and old Uniroyal RainExperts on the back. I wondered why I was over-shooting some junctions on the third set of tests - no rubber left on the front, but plenty of canvas! The RainExperts were moved to the front, some "Blaclion Landscape" tyres went on the back, tyres I obtained for free. They seemed fine at Wethersfield, I'd use them again in the dry. The RainExperts were finished after the last set of tests.

I picked up a wrong test just before the finish of the last test, for some reason I drove round a cone gate instead of through it. I don't know why. Then I swapped places with my navigator and he ran out of fuel on the last test. I had to walk back and bring a jerry can back in to the test. Test maximums for both of us on the last test so we finished nowhere! Tyre wear and fuel consumption was heavy on Sunday, worst than in the past.

 

[James363]

They were good, although very prone to the surface changes. In the smooth parts the car cornered like a house fly, but I had to be careful when the grip levels dropped, as the tyres would drop off as you would expect. I dont think the grip levels were noticeably worse than standard road tyres, but because of the abundance of grip on the smooth sections, it felt like there was no grip. I know Andy Bainbridge and Alan Coombs in the Clio Williams were using Yoko AO48's as well, with no issues, and Ding Boston in the MK2 Golf GTI was using Toyo R888's effectively too.
I struggled with the surface change in test 12, and hit a cone good and proper, I think it was coming from the largely good surface onto the loose making me think I had more grip than I did. I know a few people were short on fuel, and I used more than I was expecting to.
I'd definitely go out on Nankangs again, the price per performance of that tyre is very impressive for me, I got 5 tyres with about 6 laps of silverstone on them for 120 quid.

 

[Jaack]

All 4 wheels back on the car tonight. Checked everything in the rear & it all looks pretty good, the exhaust rubber mount will need changing soon but that's about it.
It's not all good news though I'm afraid, I bought a 30mm deep socket to get the hub nut off but with no luck, the socket just keeps slipping off the nut! Will buy a normal 30mm socket & try again. It feels pretty tight on it so I don't want to buy a smaller socket. Just want to get Rochelle (yes I named my car! [emoji23]) roadworthy as soon as possible!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[James363]

Is it a 12 point socket or a 6 point (is it hexagonal or 12 point star shaped)? I would advise 6 point on anything that's super tight and super hard to get undone. If the nuts rounded, God only knows what crimes your going to have to commit to get that off! The nuts on a 172 are 30mm for sure.

 

[Jaack]

Is it a 12 point socket or a 6 point (is it hexagonal or 12 point star shaped)? I would advise 6 point on anything that's super tight and super hard to get undone. If the nuts rounded, God only knows what crimes your going to have to commit to get that off! The nuts on a 172 are 30mm for sure.

It's a 6 point socket, 30mm and deep. It's as if when I'm pressing down on the bar the pressure is going to the wrong place, not the nut/socket. That's why I think a normal socket will work. There's a little play in the socket but don't want to buy a smaller socket. Well I watch a video on YouTube & he was working on a 172 & he said 30mm, so I assumed it was the same for all models lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[James363]

I've always used a long socket on mine, but first time I took them off when I bought the car I used an air impact gun... If you've got access to one at all (neighbour or friend) it makes it much more pleasant

 

[Jaack]

Funnily enough I've just been looking on eBay for one lol have I got to replace the nut everytime I take it off?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[James363]

It's good practice as they are nylocs. Since mines a competition only car and gets spanner checked regular, I usually just put a little locate on there.

 

[James363]

Loctite. Autocorrect strikes again

 

[Jaack]

I think I might change it this once, might aswell whilst it's off lol my car is only going to be a race car too so aslong as I keep up with the maintenance it should be alright.. hopefully lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[James363]

Yeah... I can't stress the importance of a good spanner check before events enough. The track car and stage rally cars I helped run at uni always used to get a full spanner check before they ran in anger, and maybe once in every 5 or 10 times, you'd find something untoward.

 

[Jaack]

Yeah I'll be taking a toolbox of essentials with me to every event! Plus a few tyres & some extra petrol lol I'll probably have to bring the car out on the drive to get the driveshaft out, the garage is a bit tight & haven't got much wiggle room lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[James363]

Ha ha I did a wheel bearing in a narrow single garage and it was awful... Things that tend to go on the 172's are wishbones, driveshafts and ball joints. I'm looking to make a batch of cup racer style uni ball holders for the 172's, since I work for a reverse engineering company, so wouldn't be too hard.

 

[Jaack]

Just had a look at the regs for Targas & you're allowed to take out the back seats to install a roll cage! So I think after I've done a few Solos I'll be modifying the car to be more suited for Targas! [emoji16]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[James363]

Back seats weigh less than a cage, especially if you strip the frames out of the seats so its just the cushions. A cage is also largely pointless, since you wont go over at more than about 30, and you wont be in a helmet. Also, most of your other mods would be transferable if you decided to change up to a 1400, whereas the cage will be welded in. As Alan Staniforth says, if you don't weld the cage in and use it to stiffen the car, it's a colossal waste of weight.

 

[Jaack]

Back seats weigh less than a cage, especially if you strip the frames out of the seats so its just the cushions. A cage is also largely pointless, since you wont go over at more than about 30, and you wont be in a helmet. Also, most of your other mods would be transferable if you decided to change up to a 1400, whereas the cage will be welded in. As Alan Staniforth says, if you don't weld the cage in and use it to stiffen the car, it's a colossal waste of weight.

Aww is it? I may aswell leave the back seats in then lol put a cage in when I start doing rallying etc. To be honest when I'm ready to uograde I'll probably keep the car & just change the engine & relative components.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AlanWak]

Just had a look at the regs for Targas & you're allowed to take out the back seats to install a roll cage! So I think after I've done a few Solos I'll be modifying the car to be more suited for Targas! [emoji16]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where did you find that? As a Targa is run under Road Rally Regs, you have to have the interior. Specifically:
Section R 18.1.6. The trim, including the rear seat may be cut to allow the fitting of a safety cage.

As James said, do you need a cage? It adds weight and you won't be going very fast on an Autosolo or Targa. A cage will weigh a lot more than a rear seat! I don't want you to scrimp on safety, far from it, but again look at the real risk. I have a cage in my Rover as the (now defunct) Endurance Rally Regulations required a rear cage. I still have the rear seat in the Rover as it's required, but as there's no way it can be used with the cage fitted, I have a folded Renault rear seat as it was the lightest we could find! I'm also very aware that a car rolled on the Targa last Sunday, a VERY rare occurrence. Again, just make sure that the car is 100% and get out there.

A pic attached from the Javalin's Jumbo Targa last Sunday.

 

[James363]

Buying a 1.4 would probably be less effort to be honest, they are cheap as chips. Rally the current car, it's only if you're doing full stage rallies you'll need a cage. If you want to do things like the Abingdon stages and the likes, you'll need a cage, but you'll also need FIA approved, in date, seats, harnesses and fire extinguisher, among other bits. Honestly, you're best off planning small. I have tremendous fun at autosolos and targas. Yes I'd like to move onto a full blown stage car at some point, but the costs are a fair bit higher.

 

[James363]

Here's one of mine at the same event

 

[Jaack]

Why a 1.4? Everybody on these forums seem to be in a 172/182 lol how long have you both been racing for? Is there much of a difference car spec wise between Targa & 12 cars?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[James363]

Not in terms of how you would build one really. 12 car cars usually have big lights, since they're at night. I've got some big KC spotlights for 12 cars.
There is a class break at 1400cc. So if you have a 1.4 you'll be top of that class. If you have a 2.0 litre, you'll be top of the upper class. Obviously that's only in terms of power, driver skill makes a massive difference. Mine's a 172, so top of the power in 2.0 litre, so I have no excuses! I've only been competing since I started uni 3 years ago, although some of that was in a 1.0 Vauxhall Corsa aha! Just goes to show you can definitely compete in a standard road car, I won a grass autotest in it!

 

[AlanWak]

If you can run a 172/182 then why did you go for a 1.2? I can only assume cost/availability/convenience. I started at Uni, but a few years ago.

If I were choosing a car for Targas, 12 Cars and Road Rallies I'd look seriously at a 172/182. The Rover was acquired (already prepared, a much cheaper way to obtain a car) with wins under its belt for the Endurance Road Rally Championship. My son was driving then and did very well, winning one event overall and always finishing in the top five. Not bad for a Novice, but he went back to downhill mountain bikes. I therefore "inherited" the Rover.

The Rover is good, very strong and reliable. At venues where power isn't an issue I do well - 3rd overall at Debden last year. But I was blown away at Wethersfield, especially with a wrong test. We also won the Ross Traders Targa and Hughes Clubman rallies overall last year, plus were second overall on the Leukaemia and Palladwr rallies. These last four had tests and Regularity sections - maintaining an average speed for a certain distance on the road. We were disappointed to drop 5 seconds on a section, which have to be over two miles long.

Power isn't much of an issue on 12 Cars and events with Regularities, that's mainly down to the navigator. 1.4 is a good place to start due to the class break, plus costs will be less at first. It's up to you and your pocket, but get some experience first. I won my first ever event in a 1.2 Nissan,

 

[James363]

Yeah, ultimately it's up to you. If you can afford a 1.4, do that, if you can afford a 172, even better, they're a much different car. Certainly wouldn't get a 1.6 though.

 

[Jaack]

Got a 1.2 for the reasons you just mentioned & cz of what James said aswell, 172/182 are top classes. Didn't think it would be good for me to start in a class like that with no experience...
The problem I got is that I've been playing rugby for 20 years, so I've got a rugby player build lol so yeah, weight isn't on my side, so my future planning was to get a 172/182 where I can get as much power as possible to try & elimnate some of the extra weight


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jaack]

& then acting on James's advice, when I do buy a Clio sport I can transfer everything from the 1.2 to the new car. The 1.2 is basically just so that I can get to know & understand a car better, & how everything works, & how the racing world works, clubs, events, car regs etc. Once I get more confident & more serious then I will upgrade. I know that it's a big jump & that I'll struggle with a 2.0 litre, but I will learn over time lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[James363]

I don't think you'd struggle as much as you think in a 172. Also, the suspension is very different on the 172, so your spares package won't transfer over as well as you might hope. To be fair though, especially in a 1.4 you might never want to move up to a 2.0. The 1.4 classes usually have a few ex ERRC cars in that are very fast, with skilled drivers probably accounting for a lot of the difference.

 

[James363]

Also, you'll need a navigator, so if you can find someone thin, that'll balance you out!

 

[Jaack]

Also, you'll need a navigator, so if you can find someone thin, that'll balance you out!

I've already found my navigator, I got the smallest & thinnest person I could find! Haha i don't know how I feel about moving to a 1.4 & then moving to a 2.0. I think I'd just rather jump straight to a 2.0


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[James363]

Yeah, it is logical if you can afford to run the thing. It's a much more enjoyable car on the road to be honest. It makes sense to get a couple of autosolos and such in in the 1.2 for now I guess, and then move to the 172 before you sink much money into the 1.2. That said, a set of stiff springs is relatively cheap, wheels and tyres will be useful on both cars, so long as you run 15's, since 14" wheels won't fit over a 172's brakes, and interior items can be transferred.

 

[James363]

Now that mine isn't my daily, its 270 quid a year for tax, and 700 quid a year for insurance, so an expensive toy really. It's my only car, I commute every day (even in winter) on a motorbike now.

 

[Jaack]

Yeah, it is logical if you can afford to run the thing. It's a much more enjoyable car on the road to be honest. It makes sense to get a couple of autosolos and such in in the 1.2 for now I guess, and then move to the 172 before you sink much money into the 1.2. That said, a set of stiff springs is relatively cheap, wheels and tyres will be useful on both cars, so long as you run 15's, since 14" wheels won't fit over a 172's brakes, and interior items can be transferred.

That's my plan fella. I'm just messing around in the 1.2 really, just finding my feet. I'm going to mistakes in the beginning with handling & driving etc so I'd rather break a cheap 1.2 than a few hundred quid 172 lol & then like you suggested, once I get more confident I can transfer as much as I can from the 1.2 to the 2.0 😌

 

[Jaack]

Got working on changing the driveshaft this evening & WD40 has been my best friend!! 😂 But I FINALLY got the fricking hub nut off! Yaaaay! :grin:
So got the calliper off & the pads out, so far so good..

Got to the last torx screw holding the brake disc in aaaaaaannnnnnnndddddd its rounded!! :weary::rage:

Typical!! It's always the last important screw which won't work! Will go at it with a chisel & hammer on the weekend.
Was well happy with how much meat was left on the pads though!

 

[James363]

Nice, as said before give the caliper carrier slides a check. Mine were seized when I bought the car, and I nearly went through the windscreen once I'd fixed them. I drilled the countersunk screws heads off, the screw is only necessary to locate the disc until the wheel bolts are in. That said it probably wouldn't be hard to find another.

 

[Jaack]

Nice, as said before give the caliper carrier slides a check. Mine were seized when I bought the car, and I nearly went through the windscreen once I'd fixed them. I drilled the countersunk screws heads off, the screw is only necessary to locate the disc until the wheel bolts are in. That said it probably wouldn't be hard to find another.

Yeah whilst I got it off I'm going to give everything a good wire brush & a good clean (might even give it a paint lol). I'll have a crack at it with the chisel & if that don't work I'll drill it out. I got a Halfords & Euro car parts just down the road which is handy... & expensive! Haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk