My timing belt was 4 teeth out - is that serious? Help please...

[Ally]

Following on from my thread earleir this morning about a funny rattle in the engine bay (http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128723) I've just had a call from the garage to say they've found the problem and I can collect my car.

They've reported that the timing was 4 teeth out (2 on each cam I think they said) and asked if I'd been driving the car hard. My reply was along the lines of "well it is a 2 litre 170bhp engine in a small hatchback and I ain't Miss Daisy". So in summary they're saying that me driving the car hard has resulted in the timing being out...

What do you all make of that?

I'm not very technically minded when it comes to cars but I spoke to my fiancee's dad who is, and he said the likely cause is that the tensioning pulley for the timing belt must have been faulty and it's caused the timing belt to run a bit loosely, allowing it to jump a couple of teeth. He also says that the rattling sound was probably the belt being loose.

My questions are:
- does what the garage is saying make sense?
- does what my fiancee's dad saying make sense?
- is all of the above repairable or should new parts be fitted?
- could this problem be linked to having a new alternator fitted by the same garage 6 weeks ago?

I've yet to go and collect the car (going after work tonight) but am wanting to go armed and prepared!

Any help/advice/opinions would be very much appreciated
Ally

 

[run115]

Mmmmm, sounds a bit strange to be fairly honest. Waht you gf's dad said might make sense though, if i was you i wouldnt risk it and change the timing belt and pulley i think.

Vince

 

[Ally]

Thanks for taking the time to read my essay...

Should that be under warranty? Car's just 2 years /19k miles old

 

[run115]

Timing belts should be changed at 72k, so if give enough grief to reno, you should get it under warranty, stress the point that you drive sensibly and not floor it while cold, etc......

Vince

 

[Ally]

Cheers for the advice.

Anyone else had this problem? Or can back-up what run115's said? Bloody car, I'm getting fed up with this.

 

[Rip3z]

Anyone else had this problem? Or can back-up what run115's said? Bloody car, I'm getting fed up with this.

You did buy a renault!

 

[Ally]

I know, I know...

 

[Mark_Petty]

how much are they saying its going to cost?

 

[16v_jon]

if it jumped 4 teeth you would have lost compression and bent some valves

 

[rory182]

Ally I know I said on the phone its designed to be driven hard but I wouldnt have said that to them, thats like admitting fault by saying yup i drive it hard.

hope it gets sorted

 

[Neil G]

if it jumped 4 teeth you would have lost compression and bent some valves

Agree

2 teeth out on each cam would be enough to cause damage....they have to be spot on.

 

[lemonnobby]

I agree with the the rest of them is it had jumped any teeth then it would run very poor or cause damage. e.g. bent valves normally all 16 of them

 

[Ally]

I ain't liking the sound of this

Picked up the car earlier on, seems to drive OK. According to the mechanics the timing belt must have jumped but they don't know how.

Just been out for a drive, seems to drive OK (apart from another unrelated problem with the rear wheel) so don't know if there's been any permanent damage caused. Would I be able to tell easily enough? What should I look/listen for? I'm rather worried now...

Help...

 

[The Big Yin]

Mine jumped four on my old 19 and it wouldnt start - sounds like bull s**t to me you would notice a difference

 

[Ally]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Sorry I'm just a bit worried about this whole matter... Just emailed for help on the Renaultsport site too.

As far as I can tell, my car drives just like it did before it had the timing fixed by the garage today (except minus the rattle). But from what's been stated on here I'm not convinced that the problem was the timing belt being out in the first place...

Would I have have been able to tell if the timing was out by 4 teeth? TBY (Shaun is it?) indicates I should have.

Should I be looking/listening for something wrong in the engine now? What should I look/listen for?

If this ain't what the problem was, then what the hell WAS the problem.

Argh, I need to lie down...

Help :dead:

 

[rory182]

Ally as said on the phone, they're BSing you, they replaced the alternator recently, they failed to tighten it on the belt I imagine hence the noise you were gettting. They're trying to hide their incompetence by blaming you and your 'hard driving' and you soooooooooooooo don't drive hard. lol

 

[Martin_172]

yep mate sounds like they have done somthing wrong causing the rattle and are just trying to cover up their mistake. arnold clark grangemouth?!

 

[Neil G]

I smell BS too....if the cambelt had 'slipped' I think you would definately know about it

 

[Dan@SJM]

it wouldnt run, even if it was just 2 teeth out. bent valves would have been caused. But also on the F4R engines there arent any markings on the pullies, so how they are being accurate on exacly how many teeth its jumped is very suspisous!

 

[Ally]

Cheers again for the replies. Putting me more at ease :star:

If they are BSing me, why the hell bother doing it? I mean, I actually used to work with the bloke I was dealing with on the service desk (in a totally different job) so I'd hope for honesty... I'm so pissed off. Last night I was actually looking at the prices of CTRs on autotrader...

Anyway, I went for a drive last night and it seemed to be running OK. Guess I'll know on Sunday if it's not quite right if I can't keep up... I'm going to be speaking to my fiancee's dad and he'll hopefully have a quick check over it tomorrow too, just to be sure.

Is this whole issue worth reporting/logging with Renault UK?

 

[Ally]

it wouldnt run, even if it was just 2 teeth out. bent valves would have been caused. But also on the F4R engines there arent any markings on the pullies, so how they are being accurate on exacly how many teeth its jumped is very suspisous!

Cheers!

This is one of the best things about owning a clio - the owners club is a mine of information for me! . Cheers for everyone's replies - I'm pretty much convinced I'm being BSed to be the garage now.

 

[Dan@SJM]

not really tbh, have a look on the side of the engine there are 2 black caps. are they new? if not then they havent even checked the cam timing!

 

[Ally]

^^^Can you explain a bit? Back in 2 min, away out to carpark to check for black caps...

 

[Ally]

Can't see no black caps. What side of engine shoudl I be looking on? Are they easy to see just from popping up the bonnet? Waht do they look like?!

 

[rory182]

looking at the prices of CTRs on autotrader...

poor show!!! the only thing which would attract me to a CTR is the fact it'sa Honda, much rather an S2000 or a DC5, but Nissan 350Z's can be had for £12k muahahah

 

[The Big Yin]

If it slipped you may not get bent valves but the timing would be out and it wouldn't run right if it started at all IMHO Pm one of the guru's Edde is your best bet or Andy Gdi or Matt Black to find out for deffo

 

[Dan@SJM]

the black caps are on the passenger side of the engine, if yours has the engine cover on you wont be able to see them. 2 1 1/2" approx circular caps. as this is where the cam timing is done.

 

[Ally]

Ah, engine cover is on, that's why I couldn't see them when I checked for them...

 

[tidyclio]

i'd say their taking the p mate.if this was all true then like said it probobly wouldve bent some valves,you get non interference engines that the valves wont hit but i don't think that's one.even if it ran you wouldve noticed as your basically either advancing or retarding the cam timing,the power delivery would've felt all wrong.
and if it was to be true that the belt has jumped i wouldnt be driving the car with the same belt.whatever the cause a belt shouldnt be tensioned twice.their is a problem if its jumped and it's not hard driving.

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

I had a mk1 Valver years ago that i changed the belt on and that was 1 tooth out each cam, and it was much quicker afterwards!!! funny that

 

[edde]

2 teeth sounds a bit much you have noticed a huge power difference. Mike has his car 8 degrees out and it ran terriably. I forget how many teeth ona 172 cam but 2 is way more.
Depending on the bill I'd be tempted to forget it and put it down to experiance. I take it them chnaged the cambelt and they know what there doing as the 172 engine needs the right Renault tools to do the cambelt otherwise they'll mess it up.

Stupid as it sounds they did check the intake cam wasn't activated ie the VVT system wasn't switched on all the time that should only put the intake cam out but some garages even good ones can be incompetant.