Our very broken engine....

[Hoofy]

If you've managed to watch the video from the tintops race... you'll see that we had to retire. This is why:

We're still not totally sure what the catalyst for the failure was; the symptoms were that we had pretty high coolant temp, but nothing boiled off. We also had good oil pressure and didn't lose any oil leading up to the failure. Has anyone had anything like this happen to them before? We're running a standard engine with the factory ecu, so nothing fancy going on inside.

 

[Budgie]

Cracking effort that!

Made a proper mess.

 

[Laine_16v]

Mine dropped 2 exhaust valve heads aswell, same cylinder too!

 

[Hoofy]

Mine dropped 2 exhaust valve heads aswell, same cylinder too!

​Did you identify the route cause of the problem??

 

[The Fatty]

dropped valves is a known problem on f4r engines, its happend to a few on here for no reasons at all (ie someone was on cruisecontrol on themotorway and it happend)!

 

[mi16chris]

​Did you identify the route cause of the problem??

There poor valves stock made of 2 parts they fail at the join , just bad luck man

 

[Laine_16v]

​Did you identify the route cause of the problem??

No i used pattern part valves, so i blame it on that, but it happens to people on renault valves aswell.

 

[Mr R.]

When I send my head away to be ported ill be getting 1 peice valves.

 

[mi16chris]

When I send my head away to be ported ill be getting 1 peice valves.

For sure if ur building a big power/high rpm engine use supertechs be mad no too

 

[Dave..]

Friction welded valves. Known weak point.

 

[Russ_16v]

As said, the valves are usually the first thing to go - one piece valves for the rebuild

 

[Hoofy]

This engine has had a right good pounding to be fair. We've done about 5 trackdays and 3 races with it.... and it was bloody hot on saturday at Castle Combe, that wouldn't have helped either.

Are these the only option for one piece valves?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUPERTECH...port-F4R-2-0-16v-/270865642588#ht_1251wt_1161
Or are there other brands??

 

[Toastfrenzy]

I have different 1 piece valves - forget the name at the mo I 'll look when I get home.

 

[p@blo]

Are the Supertech valves one piece though? Thought they were just joined further up the stem?

 

[Budgie]

Ah valves.

The new dephaser.

 

[sonny172cup]

jesus...that would p**s me off. shame.

One piece valves would def be way to go for peace of mind

 

[Chip-mk1]

Are the Supertech valves one piece though? Thought they were just joined further up the stem?

The supertech are 2 piece, but the join being so much further up the stem makes them much more reliable, as that part of the valve doesnt see anywhere near as much heat.

 

[Mr R.]

So would you recommend the supertechs then Chip, or is there any other valve thats better?

 

[Chip-mk1]

So would you recommend the supertechs then Chip, or is there any other valve thats better?

I'd recomend them mate yes, Ive used them in several F4R engines now and not had any problems, and they are a decent grade of material etc.

You could talk to someone like G&S if its for a very serious application where budget isnt an issue, but last time I got a quote for custom inconel valves it was around 60 quid a valve (so 480 just for the exhaust valves) and was based on a minimum order of 40.


Im of the opinion the supertech are good enough, for what anyone on here is likely to be doing with them.

 

[Mr R.]

Cheers mate, Supertechs it is then.

 

[Jaff.]

Thinking a bit wildly now but what's stopping you buying the materials and asking a local engineering firm to turn them to spec? Or do them yourself if your handy and have access to a lathe

 

[Chip-mk1]

Thinking a bit wildly now but what's stopping you buying the materials and asking a local engineering firm to turn them to spec? Or do them yourself if your handy and have access to a lathe

Good luck cutting a valve accurately enough on a lathe!

The biggest problem though causing the high cost of the inconel valves (and hence the reason that supertech make them in 2 piece to keep the cost down) is the cost of a bit of inconel bar big enough to cut a 1 piece valve from.

 

[Jaff.]

Ok in a Cnc machine then,.

ok the cost of a bar isn't going to be cheap but to a local engineering firm who just has to chuck the bar in and set the machine to go, Shirley would cost less than the prices your mentioning?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ok in a Cnc machine then,.

ok the cost of a bar isn't going to be cheap but to a local engineering firm who just has to chuck the bar in and set the machine to go, Shirley would cost less than the prices your mentioning?

They arent just cut though mate, they are heat treated and are a ground finish, there is way more to making a decent valve than you think there is, its not just lob a bar in a CNC machine and click go, if it was they would be cheaper to make in the first place!

Trust me, you need someone who specialises in making valves to do it.

Its not going to be an upgrade valve the way you are suggesting, in fact quite the opposite so you may as well just use some snotty old standard ones as I would sooner trust them than what you are suggesting, lol.

And thats aside from the fact that just the material to make a one piece would cost you more than buying the supertech 2 piece, as like I said its the cost of the material that makes them go 2 peice, that way they only need an inch long of big diameter stock (ie big enough for the head) and a couple of inches of small diameter (big enoguh for stem), rather than having to have the whole length of the valve in the big diameter.

Ive got a mate who makes a lot of custom engine components (or rather contracts out for others to) and trust me if there was a cheap way of making these sort of valves to a decent standard he would be doing it not going to the likes of G&S

 

[Jaff.]

Ok it was just an idea

 

[Mr R.]

Wheres the best place to buy supertechs?
I think Fred is doing a set for £300?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Wheres the best place to buy supertechs?
I think Fred is doing a set for £300?

I normally wait to a few people want them and buy from the states, but I dont need any for ages now.

If you can get them in this country for 300 off Fred that sounds like the best option, as postage from the states is about 100 dollars which makes buying one set uneconomical.

 

[scott.p]

Mine dropped 2 exhaust valve heads aswell, same cylinder too!

Just stumbled on this thread. I suffered a dropped valve on Monday evening, same cylinder too. I think I was traveling at about 20mph at the time.