supposed cam belt change

[maudy]

hi guys,

I know I have to pull the top engine mount to check so will do this. However:

1) I checked the cars history, full stamped book, only 35K which is VOSA checked (or whatever) and logged on MOT -> I ring the garage where serives were done......NO RECORD of a car serviced there, they sold it so did PDI and changed brake fluid once....NO SERVICE, there are like 6 stamps for each year from the garage. Engine is sweet and it prob has been services, maybe a renault tech owned car or mate did it and stamped book?

2) It had a cam belt at 5 years of 22K. A couple of years back.....my worry -> CAM CAPS have 05 year date on them.....can they have used an old kit??????
There is a bill...from a random garage.....for like 350....I think they only changed the aux belt....it looks reasonable new but again still says renault on it

Is there a way to lock cam gears WITHOUT the cam caps being removed, i've seen the pulley locking tools but do you still have to remove the cam covers....I was gonna call the garage but recipt is crappy quality print out like average joe could've made on a PC :S

Bit worried, didn't wanna have to strip engine tbh.....

 

[Addicted]

FYI Cambelt is every 5 years/72k and Aux I think is 3/36k, either way it sounds like you'll need both to be honest, wouldn't want to risk driving around in a ticking timebomb! (Not much help I know)

 

[Fred@BTM]

yes you have to rip out the seals, the cost of them in minimal anyway, get it done otherwise you'll just panic about it forever

 

[maudy]

yeah , i'll do it myself, just gonna by tool set....or make one, only a flat bit of plate. Just is so annoying when people have previously paid for a job and it is NOT done...plus cost me more....
Just though cause they are still renault caps with 2005 date on them...reanult wouldnt have these old dated parts would they ? job was done in 2010 apparently

thanks for belt intervals, yeah I know it should be done on year basis in this case as car hasn't done many miles.

 

[MartinR]

I have had some very old parts off renault before. and its not just flat bit of plate there is afew other special renault tools needed to change the belts

 

[maudy]

ah ok, so it maybe possible that they are old cam caps and it has been changed...

sorry, I know there are other tools to lock the crank etc, I was just refering to the cam locking tool in a simplistic sence.

 

[pastieman]

Also you have to get the tool for the cam pulleys to matey

 

[ABOO]

If I was going to change belts myself, would buy tools and from Renault, then sell on through here.
Alternatively mate for price of parts and buying selling tools on, I would go to Diamond or Birchdown from our neck of the woods.

 

[maudy]

thanks for replys guys, yeah i've read the engine manual and know there a few more things I need to look into. Its not my first cam belt change on a DOHC and i've rebuilt an LS1 V8 top end so i' sure i'll manage. Appreciate the advice

 

[Fred@BTM]

LS series are easy compared to the F4R, it is the most senstive engine for cam timing everyone who does one "yeah its easy i got it right" 95% of the time they haven't, without realising

 

[fletch8]

to be honest though i wouldnt touch the car after saying that the garage whos service stamps are in the book, actually had no record of it.

 

[maudy]

hi Fred, yeah the LS are really easy tbh but I've a pretty big cam in there and a cog out would = piston to head smash :O, i will research the F4R correctly, I know if it has had the cam belt done....then it maybe out cause it really doesnt feel as strong as my 172 did.....
fletch8, I have already go the car...most people dont even ring up the garages, I did out of interest of tracking the history. It has only done 30K and is so smooth compared to my previous 80K 172. As I understand it one of the owners 'friends' worked at Renault so it was serviced...but in private and stamped by garage mate :S

 

[Bobby.]

If the belt has been changed in its life time wouldn't it have a couple parts numbers all together on the belt where they have been superseded and its showing the old and new part number rather than just one part number like the original belt has?

 

[bozothenutter]

take a deep breath and take the hit...I did aswell.
turned out my car had the belts done a year before I bought it.
I now have peace of mind and a better car becauyse it turned out the timing was off.....

 

[maudy]

maybe it has new numbers, i've gonna get into the engine this weekend, take off top mount and see how the belt is.
bozo, did you notice when the timing was off ?

 

[bozothenutter]

not before, seemed quick enough...but after it felt much better

 

[maudy]

ah ok, im just comparing to my previous 172, maybe its just me ? it comes on cam strong at 5K so might be ok, but prob not changed from factory then ???? really need to check this now :S

 

[Cupman29]

LS series are easy compared to the F4R, it is the most senstive engine for cam timing everyone who does one "yeah its easy i got it right" 95% of the time they haven't, without realising

Before checking the timing on my F4rT lump I checked my old cup engine and found it was out too. Using all the correct locking tools, I reset the timing and tensioned up the belt until the 2 tabs came into line as much as possible before it released again. Did the 2 full revolutions and the timing was out again. So I did the whole thing again but as the tensioner was old it wouldn't alllow the tabs to line up and so the belt was never fully tensioned and so I thought this would stop the timing from being correct after the 2 revolutions. Did the same proecudure with a new tensioner and works perfect with the timing being spot on every time hence a new tensioner needed at every belt change I guess.

Also, I did the belts with the engine out the bay and it was straight forward enough using all the correct tools but with the engine in place I think would be a nightmare as there is little room to check alignments etc.

 

[maudy]

Yeah i'm thinking it maybe difficult to see the timing tensioner marks??

Well I dont know if I'm missing something here but as far as the clio 3286 F4R 730 manual says there are 2 ways of tensioning the belt after a change
1 - with pulley lock IF, and only IF, the pulleys HAVE been slackened from first use (or indeed if they have slipped)
2 - WITHOUT pulley lock, ie only need TDC pin and cam tool - cam pulleys MUST NOT be undone

So the fully correct way to do it is via 1, ie if you are not sure if anything has slipped or if some monkey has had their hands on it
but if the cam tool slides in nice at TDC then the inlet and exhaust cams are aligned correctly provided there is tension in the belt between them....

 

[Cupman29]

If you put the TDC pin in and use the horse shoe tool you will see if it is timed up correctly without the need to remove anything other than the cam caps.

If you do not use the correct tooling for this it will end in tears. Tensioning the belt is another issue but which one are you thinking is wrong, timing, tension or both?

 

[Fred@BTM]

pulleys ALWAYS have to be undone, if you look there is an error in the translation, egines with no VVT - leave pulleys alone, engines with VVT you have to slacken them off, read it carefully and look at the images, common mistake

 

[maudy]

hi Fred, thanks for clearing this up, I know with the pulley locker then timing can be fully checked

I plan to get top mount off and check belt for condition, if in doubt I will pull the cam caps, I noticed last night that they say xx/xx/04 so 2004, the car is a late 2005? So either parts from renault were old, or its original cam caps and engine was just made before car. I'll be pretty angry if the belts not been done, not that I can't do it but you expect these things to be done if there is a recipt...

 

[maudy]

well I took top mount off and spun crank by hand, the belt is not a renault one, its a power grip one. So I do believe it has been replaced. The kit apparently was £70 quid, think that about right for none genuine, and would include pulleys. Either way it had been done, don't know about how good tension is, there was a little bit of flex in top of belt?

 

[Alastair.]

I would be sending some photos to the dealer of your service book, and get them to explain how the stamps have ended up in there if they have no record.

 

[maudy]

well i've rung them to check but didnt say anything.....I didnt buy it from that dealer so dont know when the services were 'made up' ....I dont think i'd get anything out of it would I??? ..unless I blackmailed the dealer...which I believe is illegal also???

The car is a genuine 30K as all MOT are recoreded and advisories relating to the chaning of disc and pads every year due to them corroding with being stood. Everything supports the mileage, i'm just a bit pi**ed that the services are fake, i'd rather have a few recipts rather than 7 fake stamps.....

 

[Fred@BTM]

Well my V6 is lacking service receipts but has a fully stamped book, i can't really invoice myself for working on my car