182cup & 172 racecar
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Toastfrenzy's Tin Top, some say...........
- Thread starter Toastfrenzy
- Start date
I actually narrowed it down with David last night. New board needs the crank sensor shielding earthed differently so replacement should already be fine with a wire moved. Annoyingly he'd not mentioned that before and this is the first of the new ECUs That I've used. Also said the last ECU voltage stabilisation had been fried, causing the erratic signals, so your alternator regulator is suspect.
Presuming I've now fried the stand in ECU as ran it for a fair while this morning, can I bring the car back down again to swap ECU's, and a new Alternator regulator? Or is this part of the actual Alternator?
Do you not run a voltage gauge Pete? Can't remember if you ended up buying a datalogger Pete but if you did I presume it logs voltage?
Run volt gauge (and oil pres\temp) the gauge needle is always in the middle of the green bit - guessing around\between 12-14 (this is from memory). I'll start it up monitor and turn all lights etc on to see if it moves guessing it should stay static. Not rise or drop with load?
found video of it switching on
[video]http://s2.photobucket.com/user/moo0484/media/toast%20loom/8B6D9D61-8646-437B-9985-7A4936977867-18935-000010056F03A05B_zps1e6ca188.mp4.html[/video]
Not got any data logging on the ecu or else where, pity. @MicKPM @BIGASH
Last edited:
MicKPM
ClioSport Trader
Clio16v/Zoe Z.E.50
I just wrote a massively detailed reply and Tapatalk stopped working so unhappy!
Pete, without knowing what ancils you now have its hard to say but generally the load on the charge circuit will increase as you switch on more items. Also I don't know how great your gauges are or how sensitive they are so I'd recommend two things to test first off:-
1 - More of a safety measure (and if Beanie wired this car he may have already done it). Fit a 15A inline fuse to the +12v feed(s) to the CANEMS. If there's another over voltage issue it will blow before it does any damage to the unit itself thus saving your time and money. I'd also fit one to the Coil/Injector feeds until you sort the issue as these *may* also be the culprits for the spiking.
2 - Data log the voltage vs rpm from the alternator and graph it as a picture paints a thousand words with issues like this (unless you have a super sensitive DMM and you can spot mS spikes).
My alternator seems to hate 7.5k rpm and plays up to and I'm certain it's gonna die in me shortly which is why I always carry my spare.
Pete, without knowing what ancils you now have its hard to say but generally the load on the charge circuit will increase as you switch on more items. Also I don't know how great your gauges are or how sensitive they are so I'd recommend two things to test first off:-
1 - More of a safety measure (and if Beanie wired this car he may have already done it). Fit a 15A inline fuse to the +12v feed(s) to the CANEMS. If there's another over voltage issue it will blow before it does any damage to the unit itself thus saving your time and money. I'd also fit one to the Coil/Injector feeds until you sort the issue as these *may* also be the culprits for the spiking.
2 - Data log the voltage vs rpm from the alternator and graph it as a picture paints a thousand words with issues like this (unless you have a super sensitive DMM and you can spot mS spikes).
My alternator seems to hate 7.5k rpm and plays up to and I'm certain it's gonna die in me shortly which is why I always carry my spare.
If its in the middle of the gauge at 12-14 volts even when revved then it doesnt sound like there is anything wrong with your alternator so that might be a red herring, although like Mick says they can act differently at high rpm, an underdrive pulley is the way to stop that issue.
So a fault with the ECU or the wiring seems more likely if the alternator really is only hitting the middle of your gauge.
So a fault with the ECU or the wiring seems more likely if the alternator really is only hitting the middle of your gauge.
@MicKPM thanks for your post! Been in touch with Moo all good on that front- he's offered to help out too when I next get the car down to Dan's which is nice of him.
Hi Pete! Cheers for the message, I never really
go on ClioSport so wouldn't have known. I had no idea you were having problems.
I'm so very sorry. Reading through your pm, I have definitely fitted a fuse to
the feed for the ecu and for the coil and injectors, I wouldn't wire anything
up without a fuse. The crank sensor (wiring wise) is only 2 wires, so checking
that is upto spec should be nice and easy. The only other thing with crank
sensors is we've had a couple of issues (with other ECU's) with having to fit a
resistor to the circuit to get it to pick up. Without one fitted it usually
doesn't start. Yours has one fitted, Dan supplied one with the ECU and loom,
but that would be worth checking the resistance is correct etc. Is the car
going back to dans. If it is I'll head straight across to his as soon as I can
to help him work through this problem.
@Chip-mk1 I'll get the alternator checked, if only to rule it out. What's an underdrive pulley? I'll Google it in the meanwhile....
Hi Pete! Cheers for the message, I never really
go on ClioSport so wouldn't have known. I had no idea you were having problems.
I'm so very sorry. Reading through your pm, I have definitely fitted a fuse to
the feed for the ecu and for the coil and injectors, I wouldn't wire anything
up without a fuse. The crank sensor (wiring wise) is only 2 wires, so checking
that is upto spec should be nice and easy. The only other thing with crank
sensors is we've had a couple of issues (with other ECU's) with having to fit a
resistor to the circuit to get it to pick up. Without one fitted it usually
doesn't start. Yours has one fitted, Dan supplied one with the ECU and loom,
but that would be worth checking the resistance is correct etc. Is the car
going back to dans. If it is I'll head straight across to his as soon as I can
to help him work through this problem.
@Chip-mk1 I'll get the alternator checked, if only to rule it out. What's an underdrive pulley? I'll Google it in the meanwhile....
MicKPM
ClioSport Trader
Clio16v/Zoe Z.E.50
Pete, yeah he's not a stupid guy and really knows what he's doing with wiring so thought he would've put something inline to protect the equipment but its always worth checking. The real issue to resolve now though is how has a transient over voltage managed to get thru and damage the unit? (I'm glad I don't have to answer that one because it will either be something really obvious or incredibly sneaky).
Personally I suspect it may just be one of the components on the board decided it had enough and shiz happened. I had this with an Ignition driver on my Emerald M3Dk. Component replaced and never happened again so fingers crossed eh!
Personally I suspect it may just be one of the components on the board decided it had enough and shiz happened. I had this with an Ignition driver on my Emerald M3Dk. Component replaced and never happened again so fingers crossed eh!
182cup & 172 racecar
We had trouble wirh alternators (volvo) when we built the car.
Went to a cup set up and no trouble since.?
Went to a cup set up and no trouble since.?
My alternator is always over heating due to running at fast speeds most of the time, I've just fitted a new one with a larger pulley to slow it down,
If you have a good battery then you shouldnt have issues with heated rear screens,
Its not the volts you need to worry about, its the amps that kills stuff, much more difficult to measure amp spikes,
If you have a good battery then you shouldnt have issues with heated rear screens,
Its not the volts you need to worry about, its the amps that kills stuff, much more difficult to measure amp spikes,
Not out of the woods yet, unfortunately.
Ah, yes I know what it is now. Checked all and the gauge stays still at 12v at idle with everything on lights wipers etc, even when revving appears not to move the needle, is this correct operation ?
Ah, I have a Cup so already have the cup set up.
Heated rear screen has always worked, it's the ECU that's messing me around.
Got the garage booked for 08:30 Saturday to get the geometry set up, going for 1.5 -ve camber, 10 mins toe out (centre the wheel and track rod lenghts) and a check for the castor and also a check of where the rear is at.
Getting some digital camber gauges too, as all you need is a level surface for the car. Get your £100 back after 3-5 camber changes - more time consuming having to jack up, wheels off, adjust, wheels back on lower jack and then check reading. Can do this myself, tracking a no at the moment.
Getting the garage to give the alternator\battery a once over, as I've no DMM\testing equipment to get a proper picture of their condition.
Bought a Db meter, so will see how that goes - £20. If I make it down to Bedford on Sat pm, will check against their db reading if it's a long way out I'll send it back.
Getting some digital camber gauges too, as all you need is a level surface for the car. Get your £100 back after 3-5 camber changes - more time consuming having to jack up, wheels off, adjust, wheels back on lower jack and then check reading. Can do this myself, tracking a no at the moment.
Getting the garage to give the alternator\battery a once over, as I've no DMM\testing equipment to get a proper picture of their condition.
Bought a Db meter, so will see how that goes - £20. If I make it down to Bedford on Sat pm, will check against their db reading if it's a long way out I'll send it back.
MicKPM
ClioSport Trader
Clio16v/Zoe Z.E.50
Pete, ideally you want to be checking the running voltages with a multi-meter at the alternator and battery as the accuracy/frequency of that gauge is unknown (I haven't seen it so maybe a Stack Professional unit but then again it may also be something eBay Ching-Chong and useless designed to just point to a position and stay there). If you like i'll gladly take a quick look at it for you on Saturday (If it's still going) as i'll be taking basic equipment to earn my Buddies tokens hehehe?
Hope it all comes together Pete.
RE:camber gauge - I'd have thought a flat piece of wood, some string and a bit trigonometry would be just as accurate.
What gauge are you looking at?
RE:camber gauge - I'd have thought a flat piece of wood, some string and a bit trigonometry would be just as accurate.
What gauge are you looking at?
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Is the bit I've done in bold a typo pete? I'd definitely be putting more on than that for camber!!
Not a stack pro unit a TIM £35 jobbie - enough to probably warn of an issue but nothing too detailed.
Hopefully will be over the next couple of weeks. Dan's seeing if he can shift some work around so I can drop the car off on Saturday, leave with him for a week or so.
I get your drift but having to jack up, take the wheels off, measure and adjust then repeat many times is enough with out having to cos, sine, tan and all that stuff, digital!!!
I was looking at Longacre stuff then saw this on eBay The gauge is £130 odd on DT alone. Will see how much the garage charges first before I take the plunge. Last year at a Motorsport garage it was £150 for camber, tracking and check of the rear. The place I use now charge me £36 to adjust tracking - nothing if it doesn't need adjusting, camber may only be another £36. If so I'll not bother with the camber gauges, maybe.
Hmmm, I only ran with 2.5 before the new roll centre bump steer hubs - I'm hoping I won't need as much moving forward, so will try 1.5 first and see the wear on the front outside shoulders after a few 20min sessions. One of the things the kit was bought for was to eliminate the need for having to run to much camber. I've also increased my castor which gives free camber when turning too. Unless you've experienced what I'm going to find out (by running less)???
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Personally I'd run with the 2.5 degrees you ran last season pete. The roll centre kit just makes the suspension work better by correcting the fundamental suspension geo.
Were you knocking the b****cks out of the edges last season?
182cup & 172 racecar
That's the one I've got Pete, It's good enough. (camber gauge).
No, wear was as flat as a engineers block - I was contemplating taking .5 off, I did run 2.8 first.
182cup & 172 racecar
Try harder.
182cup & 172 racecar
I'll leave it at 2.5 and try harder.....
I used to run 4 degree's and now run 3 for this year and I think it should be about right now.
Pete try and get friendly with a local Kwik fit that has a hunter alignment machine. Thankfully the guys at mine are really helpful/good and just sort mine out for a little cash on the side
happy days all round
Pete try and get friendly with a local Kwik fit that has a hunter alignment machine. Thankfully the guys at mine are really helpful/good and just sort mine out for a little cash on the side
happy days all round
182cup & 172 racecar
-3 on the rear? that's a lot.
I run -2 to -2.5 on the rear, it's good!
1.3 - 1.5 on a cup std I think.
Surely thats a trade secret!
I leave camber just full soften and never thought about raising height - normally no time to go that far (by the time waited for rain or not).
182cup & 172 racecar
I can't be arsed to mess about.
Just change the tyres and drive it.
Its not F1 or Btcc
Just change the tyres and drive it.
Its not F1 or Btcc
Here's what I'm thinking to make camber changes easier - remove the need to have to fit the wheel and check after adjusting the strut bolts.
I saw this on ebay (looking at the overall picture not the gauge, had one sold it on, not that good)
then saw the method to adjust bump steer with shims,
Looking at the jack and where it's jacking and the fact the wheel is off, made me think I've two jacks plenty of dunnage, what's to stop me using the ball joint now rose joint as jacking points protected with wood.
Of course I'd have to jack under the sill first to get wheel off, support with dunnage then repeat on the other side but use the 2nd jack under the ball joint so easier to level off etc.
And then with a digital magnetic camber gauge on the disc away we go.
Or am I missing something? My race wheels weigh 5.6kg each and maybe up to 5kg for a tyre so not having this weight on isn't such a problem?
I saw this on ebay (looking at the overall picture not the gauge, had one sold it on, not that good)
then saw the method to adjust bump steer with shims,
Looking at the jack and where it's jacking and the fact the wheel is off, made me think I've two jacks plenty of dunnage, what's to stop me using the ball joint now rose joint as jacking points protected with wood.
Of course I'd have to jack under the sill first to get wheel off, support with dunnage then repeat on the other side but use the 2nd jack under the ball joint so easier to level off etc.
And then with a digital magnetic camber gauge on the disc away we go.
Or am I missing something? My race wheels weigh 5.6kg each and maybe up to 5kg for a tyre so not having this weight on isn't such a problem?
