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FFS, just realised I'm breaking one of my own rules. Never feed the troll!

That's got nothing to do with how good a car is to drive. That effects how much own and enjoy using the car on a day to day basis. On a track day or a blast in North Wales, how your car sound's doesn't matter at all. When pootling along in the AMV8 it's awesome, sounds incredible. When driving...

Nice, but I'd raise the back a wee bit, always preffered a slight nose down poise. Needs more camber!

Hows the fpm? Has it hit 10k miles yet?

Having chatted to a few people, amazed at how cheap and easy getting a car clocked is. Worrying when buying second hand.

All their dealers are w**k. Having seen what Alan bought, can see even less reason to get a 197.

I bought one off here a few months ago. Never play the f**king thing, I'm old. Pm me if you're interested, 60gb, Forza 2, Fifa and one other game. 2x controllers.

Too hard on the rear?? The only complaint I've heard if them is being too soft on the rear, iirc burp did everything he could to get them firmer. IMO you'd be mad to purchase without trying a car with them on 1st. Such a personal thing.

Both good. I liked h&r, not tried the billies but iirc they are slightly stiffer than the h&r. What are they for, track, slammming etc?

James watt automotive.

Think you might have your wires crossed fella. Every recent test in Evo has had the Trophy as the best hot hatch, and it's between that and the dc2 for the best FWD car ever (in their opinion).

Erm, no they don't! In the best FWD feature, they didn't even take a puma to the final. The finalists were the 205gti, williams, golf gti mk V, dc2 integra type R, mini GP, trophy. Iirc, they rate the 1.7puma above the Racing Puma.

Missing the point entirely. Focus on the steering, handling, feedback. If you take into account noise, drama, etc etc then of course there are other cars you'd rather drive. But the whole ethos of evo etc is that they try and cut to the core of driving. As an overall car, a 996c2 is a far better...

Exactly. A s1 Elise is noisey as f**k, but epic to drive. And F40 will feel like a kit car compared to a 430, but I know which I'd rather have. All the plush refinements that people seem to get excited over add weight. Weight kills performance, dulls responses and harms handling.

Non. Check with the FF pioneers. 182=standard 182 182 FF=182+cup packs 182cup=duh! Trophy=Nirvana.

But feel, feedback, enjoyment are what makes a road car great(which is where these cars were tested). I'd argue that excess speed means you can utilise them even less. You can go absolutely banana's in a Trophy on our roads, you just can't do that in a new M3, let alone a supercar.

This point always gets raised. If you take them as overall cars, of course the 430's the better car. But in terms of purely driving the door handles off the thing, why couldn't the Clio be better? Or any light, small car with decent engineering behind it? On those grounds, they might as well...

FF= both cup packs.

Mine did that. Disconnect and try again.

Look what else they've got in stock 4wd conversion, 400bhp.

Says in the op it's a cup-packed car.

Marketing folly in Autocar? It's a review, not a sales brochure lol. TBF you couldn't tell the difference between a 182 and a Trophy, ergo I'm not sure you should comment ;).

Your car looks great, the golf looks barry

Oneday, someone will do an f1 game with older cars+drivers included. Being able to replay the 89-91 seasons would be epic.

Amen. Should of died out when the car was invented.

Riz took the shopping list off before selling iirc. And his had daytona's and smoked side repeaters.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Renault-Clio-2.0-Renaultsport-182-Trophy/216093/ It rolls less than the Cup, has less suspension travel at the front, and yet it rides fully 30 per cent better than that car. To drive it fast over virtually disintegrating asphalt and feel just how...

A blind mute could tell the difference between a trophy and a 182 within 1 mile!

Never understood people that think the trophyis harsh. I never found it overtly stiff. If you read the original autocar review they actually complement it in comparison to the 182cup. Was certainly better than my sportlined 182.

As above. They are uprated Renault jobs.