0-60 with 6 Gears

[sh33n]

Just a thought on gear ratios, if the new RS Clio has six gears, which is likely from what Ive seen, will it still hit 60 (or 62) in second?

 

[Clarkie172]

doubt it!

i hate cars where u cant hit 60 in second!my pounto gt was like that! i hated it!

 

[Daz]

Williams cant hit 60 in second!

All it does it make the car look a little bit slower on paper

 

[telford_mike]

Ive no idea why people seem to like 6 speed boxes to be honest. Pain in the arse for quarter mile racing etc.

 

[Tom]

These are the new ratios

8.4/13.6/17.9/22.0/25.0/30.5

This is km/h per 1000rpm now bear in mind the new rs should rev beyond 7250rpm.

These are the old ratios

8.6/14.2/20.1/25.8/33.4

So if the new RS keeps the existing 7250rpm limit it does 98.6km/h in second thats just about 60mph, however i think its going to require another change to reach 60.

 

[sh33n]

Yer, my thoughts were as you said Daz that it wouldnt look as good on paper as current RS models.

Good info btw Tom

 

[mitch_]

Could have been a 7 speed so I wouldnt complain too much!!

 

[Loopz]

hm, i dont know if the rev limiter will remain at 7250, as renault says they will increase power on the new RS through revs - so the limit may go up to 8000 or so...

 

[Clarkie172]

8k will be mint! chip it to 8.5k

 

[Jim172CUP]

is it a turbo? think zoo review said it has the same perfomance as the current rs but faster at the top end.

 

[Loopz]

nope, still an N/A with something round 200bhp

IMO, an N/A engine suits the clio better, but the performance wont change much as it will probably add on some extra kilos too...

but thats all theory for now...

 

[edde]

They dont need to rev the engine any higher to get more power Id think theyd stick with almost the same rev limiter. They arnt likly to be replacing anything bottom end and they dont need more revs so whats the point.

192hp though normally aspirated.

Tiop end wont be much different maybe 2mph but few people have ever seen top end of a 172 so there no huge difference. The 6 speed box should help give more power though as youll have a better choice of gears.

1.2 tones though the new weight which is about 17% more

 

[Tom]

If that even is the curb weight.

Im betting its going to be under 1200kg.

The reason why i suggested the rev limit may increase is the peak power point is now 7250rpm, suggesting it may rev beyond that.

Dont those ratios suggest top end speed is down?

 

[benji&eka]

6 gears - 1 too many

 

[Rasclart]

It said 1100KG

 

[Jim172CUP]

Quote: Originally posted by benji&eka on 28 August 2005

6 gears - 1 too many

good for the motorway though. last time i was on the motorway i really could have done with another gear to get the revs down to an non ear splitting level.

 

[blink172]

Personally, 6 gears is good as it drops the revs when cruising at 70-90mph, meaning it will be more economic and quieter.

 

[182_blue]

mine gets to 60 ok with 6 gears

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by sh33n on 28 August 2005



Just a thought on gear ratios, if the new RS Clio has six gears, which is likely from what Ive seen, will it still hit 60 (or 62) in second?

Depends how they stack the ratios up...

Ive had three cars with a 6 speed box, the CTR which wouldnt hit 60mph in 2nd, even at 8200rpm and two 306s, a Rallye & GTi-6 which will pull 67mph in 2nd.

Until its launched we wont know...

 

[Rick]

It wont do any favours for the headline grabbing 0-60 time if you have to change twice on the way. Even if it is a six speed they can still easily make it do 60 in second.

If they start with a 172 box, all they should do is play around with 4th, 5th and 6th to give a bit better acceleration and then a higher mph/1000 revs in top.

 

[stevoversteer]

It really is starting to annoy me how ALL new cars are weighing more than ferries. I thought my Ibiza was a bit of a fat girl @ 1119kg, but as things have turned out thats pretty blumming light. The next Astra VXR for example, just under 1400kg!!!!!!! It just seems as if these mainstream car engineers are putting so much hard work in to get more power out of these engines, develop better suspension, etc.... just to stay the same due to the huge setback of extra weight. Safety technology is getting so good now, that surely weight doesnt need to keep increasing at the same rate. Imagine a 1050kg clio with ~200bhp

 

[jonnyboy]

I would guess they have gone for shorter gearing to keep the 0-60 down as it pretty obvious it will weigh more even with more power a shorter ratio should help both the 0-60 and how it performs in the twisties pulling out of bends etc.

I wouldnt sl*g 6 speeders just because its new and the current clios dont have them 6 gears is the correct amount for a car to have IMO that 6th cog has you cruising on the motorway doing 90 at 2.5k RPM its great

Agrre with the comments about weight though even a cupped new clio is still gonna be a bit heavy for a small hot hatch the 1300 I lug about in the megane is about the limit for a FWD car i rekon

 

[jonnyboy]

oh Ps the 225 does about 56 in 2nd from memory I know you have to change just before you hit 60, Id guess the 225 and new clio gearboxes might be similar or even the same unit

 

[stevoversteer]

I think 6 speeds would suit the clio perfectly. It can be kept in the powerband more effeciently that way and could rectify the problem of having very little torque. As with the CTR, you can constantly stir up the 6 speed box, and although maybe more tiring, should be more effective on a low torque, high revving lump like the renaultsports

 

[badinvincible]

6th gear overdrive would be spot on for mine. 70mph at 3.5k-ish is ear splitting with my exhaust.

 

[jonnyboy]

lol I remember that with my 172, if you did 90 it was bearable lol

 

[entjm]

Quote: Originally posted by blink172 on 28 August 2005

Personally, 6 gears is good as it drops the revs when cruising at 70-90mph, meaning it will be more economic and quieter.

not always really true. quaieter but perhaps not as economic. the figurs below are just examples to illustrate the point, plucked out of my arse.

to maintain 70mph may take (plucks figures out fo the air) 20bhp.. there is no way round this. to do 70mph you need 20bhp at the wheels. it doesnt matter how the power gets there (e.g. via the 6th gear or 5th).

say that you are at 4000rpm at this speed and the max power at 4000rpm is 40bhp. to maintain 70mph you have the foot 50% on the throttle.

now mr new clio owner is in 6th gear at 3000rpm, however at 3000rpm the max power output is say 30bhp. now you will need the throttle at more like 66%.

the engine isnt pumping as quickly but each roatation sucks in bigger gulps of fuel. so to maintain your 70mph you may be using a less efficient part of the rev-range and using more fuel.

all this info is taken from an article about motorbikes in last weeks MCN but im sure the physics applies to cars too.

EDIT: saying all that i suppose the point is they pick the gear ratios so that the blaance between gears makes it worthwile acceleration and top end cruising.


[Edited by entjm on 30 August 2005 at 9:22pm]

 

[jonnyboy]

well in my 225 its more ecanomical as you can get 35mpg if your carefull!

 

[entjm]

yeh was getting carried away about soemthing id read... but in theory, just increasing the ratio might not save you fuel straight off.

 

[jonnyboy]

yeah if the engine was ticking over at a non efficient rpm it wouldnt be good but Im sure on cars the 6th cog is set up for motorway use

 

[skinner]

I did a little Excel sheet last time the ratios were posted. Here are the speed tables from it:







172 mk 1







1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th

1000
5.645004
9.362446
13.20404
16.94967
21.95095

2000
11.29001
18.72489
26.40808
33.89935
43.90191

3000
16.93501
28.08734
39.61212
50.84902
65.85286

4000
22.58002
37.44978
52.81616
67.7987
87.80382

5000
28.22502
46.81223
66.0202
84.74837
109.7548

6000
33.87002
56.17467
79.22423
101.698
131.7057

7000
39.51503
65.53712
92.42827
118.6477
153.6567

7250
40.92628
67.87773
95.72928













Clio 182







1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th

1000
5.344935
8.825357
12.49223
16.0348
20.75823

2000
10.68987
17.65071
24.98446
32.06961
41.51647

3000
16.0348
26.47607
37.47669
48.10441
62.2747

4000
21.37974
35.30143
49.96892
64.13922
83.03294

5000
26.72467
44.12679
62.46116
80.17402
103.7912

6000
32.06961
52.95214
74.95339
96.20883
124.5494

7000
37.41454
61.7775
87.44562
112.2436
145.3076

7250
38.75078
63.98384
90.56868









RS 2006








1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th

1000
5.22
8.45
11.1
13.67
15.53
18.95

2000
10.44
16.9
22.2
27.34
31.06
37.9

3000
15.66
25.35
33.3
41.01
46.59
56.85

4000
20.88
33.8
44.4
54.68
62.12
75.8

5000
26.1
42.25
55.5
68.35
77.65
94.75

6000
31.32
50.7
66.6
82.02
93.18
113.7

7000
36.54
59.15
77.7
95.69
108.71
132.65

7250
37.845
61.2625
80.475
99.1075
112.5925
137.3875



Cant guarantee they are 100%.

Looks like 6th is not really a motorway gear though. 5000rpm at 95mph is a bit loud for me...