1.6 16v engine

[Matt2409]

So I'm thinking of replacing my engine in my current car, it's a mrk 2 clio 1.2.

I want to put a 1.6 16v in there, I will be declaring it on insurance and such, it's more for me and my dad to have as a side project anyway. Just a bit of fun to do and cheaper than buying a 172.

I have a small list of things that will need doing, but also need advice on other bits.

The list of parts:
1.6 engine
1.6 gearbox
1.6 engine loom
1.6 ecu

Questions:

1. Will I need to slice the new loom into my existing one or could I just plug the entire loom in?

2. Is the gear ratio the only difference between the 1.4 and 1.6 gearbox? As the 1.4 engine is only 10 hp less I believe.

3. Would it be better to get a new ecu or should I get an aftermarket one? As I doubt I'd be able to get the ecu from the donor car.

4. The imobiliser, with a different ecu in the car will it be triggered? If so is there a way to bypass this as the car will be stored in a garage most of the time anyway, and it's only a fun project so really be used on the road.

5. The brake system, the 1.6 has a different rear setup too the 1.2, obviously making sure the car will still stop is a big thing and will be done properly, although I can't find if there are any differences between the rest of the system, need some help here please.

If there is anything else I'm missing please inform me, I'm aware of insurance, but it won't be a massive problem as it will be declared.

Thank you.

 

[Martin_172]

You will need:
Engine
Gearbox
Engine wiring loom
Matching ECU, uch and transponder from the key from the doner car.

You will be able to keep your current interior wiring loom and it will just plug into your new engine loom under the passengers scuttle panel.

You can run your standard brakes as they are all the same apart from 2004 onwords 1.6 ran rear discs but earlier ones had drums and it isn't worth switching.

Other parts worth noting, get the radiator and coolant hoses from the 1.6, grab the section of fuel line from under the driver's footwell to the fuel rail, also grab the shafts. And the exhaust

 

[Twingo 1??]

Put the 1.6 engine and box out of a Twingo 133 in as its more powerful to start with.

 

[Matt Cup]

Is there any particular reason you want to go with the 1.6 over a 172/182 conversion?

 

[Matt2409]

You will need:
Engine
Gearbox
Engine wiring loom
Matching ECU, uch and transponder from the key from the doner car.

You will be able to keep your current interior wiring loom and it will just plug into your new engine loom under the passengers scuttle panel.

You can run your standard brakes as they are all the same apart from 2004 onwords 1.6 ran rear discs but earlier ones had drums and it isn't worth switching.

Other parts worth noting, get the radiator and coolant hoses from the 1.6, grab the section of fuel line from under the driver's footwell to the fuel rail, also grab the shafts. And the exhaust

So would it be better to buy a donor car? As currently I had just planned to buy the engine, gearbox and such from a breaker, only trouble is they don't have the engine loom, or ecu.

Is there any way to get around this? Or is a complete donor car needed?

 

[Martin_172]

Yes either a donor car or last time I done one I just done a deal with the breakers where I gave them £300 for the car and stripped it bare over 8hrs and left them the shell

 

[Matt2409]

Is there any particular reason you want to go with the 1.6 over a 172/182 conversion?

Honestly the price of the conversion, I believe less faff as I know the bodys are universal, but I'll be looking at the break system, suspension, fuel system, plus the price difference between the 1.6 and a 172/182 outright, I'm aware it will have more power but it won't ever be a 172 and that is what turns me off it.

 

[Matt2409]

Yes either a donor car or last time I done one I just done a deal with the breakers where I gave them £300 for the car and stripped it bare over 8hrs and left them the shell

I'm currently in Suffolk, is there any decent breakers about near here if your local ish? Or would traveling be better? I'm happy to do a few hours driving to collect stuff

 

[Martin_172]

I'm currently in Suffolk, is there any decent breakers about near here if your local ish? Or would traveling be better? I'm happy to do a few hours driving to collect stuff

Sorry other end of the country from me! Full cards turn up for £500 ish so it's worth keeping your eyes open however some of them are tidy enough it would be better just to use it than re shell it to yours

 

[Walnut3]

I went through this process some 15 years ago and it cost me a small fortune, but if you're doing it for fun and are patient it may be viable.

Mine was a 1.2 16v which had the same brakes as the 1.6 16v. Initially used a gearbox from a Clio mk1 1.2 (weirdly it fits) which has shorter ratios but eventually grenaded itself. 1.4 or 1.6 16v gearboxes are both fine, there isn't much of a difference in the ratios from memory.

ECU needs coding if you get it from a donor car. No experience with aftermarket ECUs.

Make sure you get the loom from the same model, mk2 pre and post facelift are quite different. Engine and gearbox are fine from any model, mine came from a Laguna and I think the Scenic is another option.

 

[Matt2409]

I went through this process some 15 years ago and it cost me a small fortune, but if you're doing it for fun and are patient it may be viable.

Mine was a 1.2 16v which had the same brakes as the 1.6 16v. Initially used a gearbox from a Clio mk1 1.2 (weirdly it fits) which has shorter ratios but eventually grenaded itself. 1.4 or 1.6 16v gearboxes are both fine, there isn't much of a difference in the ratios from memory.

ECU needs coding if you get it from a donor car. No experience with aftermarket ECUs.

Make sure you get the loom from the same model, mk2 pre and post facelift are quite different. Engine and gearbox are fine from any model, mine came from a Laguna and I think the Scenic is another option.

Would you say it gave noticeable improvement in acceleration in the end? I'm aware a 2.0L would give more, but it's just a cheap side project so I can learn a bit whilst having a go.

I'm also thinking of cutting the spare wheel well out and platting over it, reckon it would be worth the effort? My old man's a welder so he reckons he'd be able to do it, we just weren't sure on the end result being worth the effort.

Are the luguna, clio, and megane engine all the same then from that time? As in 1.6's? Wasn't sure if one had stronger internals or such, or was better for turbo/supercharging if we ever decided to do that. I know it's normally a pain in the ass for the 172/182, can't find if it's any different for the 1.6.

Anything you think I should look out for whilst doing this conversion as you have done it yourself or any helpful advice?

Thank you!

 

[Walnut3]

This was all a very long time ago so forgive me if my memory is fuzzy.

The 1.6 16v is coded K4M-xxx where xxx depends on the year of fabrication and car it was put in. There are slight differences between the "xxx" variants but I recall them being based on where certain external bits are / sensors and such, basically I don't think the internals are any different between them. Since this is a project car and you'll need to source the engine/gearbox from breakers, widening your search to any K4M will yield more options.
I'm pretty sure the gearbox from the 8v models won't fit so make sure to look for 16v (K4J/K4M) parts.

I struggled to find this engine from a Clio as it was far more common in the Laguna, so had to track down the loom separately. Renault asked for some £300+ new which is daylight robbery so eventually got one from breakers from a 2000 (phase 1) 1.6 16v. I then realised it had to be extensively rewired (electric steering in the phase 2 etc.), luckily I managed to convince a friend who worked for Renault to lend me the wiring diagram book so was able to do this myself.
Basically, get the loom from the same phase car and avoid the hassle though

At the time super/turbocharging was well over my budget (and there was less info / not many garages that would help me) so I kept it N/A. With a decent induction, Supersprint headers, decat, Catcams, ported head and custom remap I managed around 140bhp, the cams in particular ruined the idle and low rev torque but made for some pretty decent peak power. Come to think of it, over the years I probably spent more on N/A tuning than I would have in a turbo conversion, though mind that today there is far more information/specialists out there on this subject - plus turbos are way cheaper.
To your question on performance it was of course night and day (nearly double the power). Yes it wasn't as powerful (or fast) as an RS but it weighed in at 1015kg with fluids / full tank.

I too thought of the spare wheel mod (jealousy of the 182) but it's not a job many were keen to consider, unless you remove the fuel tank etc. as you'd be cutting/welding around that area. I doubt there is much weight saving, whether it is worth it is a matter of personal opinion. You're unlikely to notice small weight savings but I've been often bitten by the mod bug and sometimes you end up doing crazy stuff for gratification if nothing else.

In the end though, I still had a car with smaller front brakes than a 172 and even though I installed the rear axle of a 1.5dci (discs rather than drums) and went through the pain of getting the ABS to accept that change, it didn't have the stopping power of an RS. Same with the wider front track, I had the full RS panels and 25mm spacers at the front but it wasn't quite RS handling level.
And I suppose that is what everyone says on this topic, it really is cheaper to buy the model up than to try and clone it, just not as fun!

In terms of tips, with anything like this maybe try not to add up the costs or you will go mad. Buying engine/gearbox from breakers is playing the roulette, and even if you do most / all of the work yourself there are plenty of consumables that add up - oil, gearbox oil, coolant (one or more of which can be wasted if you find a mechanical fault).
Your list is fine, engine(make sure headers come with it)/gearbox/ecu/loom should literally be what you need as a minimum. Perhaps brakes can be upgraded from a 1.2 16v (D4F) which is super common, and they are good enough for 140bhp.

Someone above suggests using the Twingo 1.6 engine which is an interesting idea, this model came out long after I'd done the conversion so no idea how compatible the loom would be.

If you don't care about comparing it to an RS and just want a project to do, go for it! If you wanted to mod a 1.6 you could maybe find a 1.4 16v (entire car) for sale and swap just the engine. In fact those engines are quite similar, 1.6 has longer stroke, I think only the bottom end/crank differ.

 

[Martin_172]

because of the price of a 1.6 16v Clio, you would need to have a VERY VERY big sentimental connection to the car to make it a viable conversion. I done one years ago but at the time I had managed to pick up a high miles 1.2 Clio for £1500 when all the 1.6 16v Clio's about were over £5k.

My most recent conversion was my 182 conversion into my Clio van, again the full project including some nice upgrades and a full refresh owes me around £2k, I couldn't have bought an equivalent condition 182 for that! (I bought a wrote of donor car).

I fully understand the want for a project, especially one that's just cheap fun , but lets say it costs you £1000 to get it fully done and running, instead you could sell your 1.2, buy a 1.6 probably for about the same sort of money and then have your £1000 to spend on modifying your 1.6. A lot of people say just buy a 2.0 but to be honest the 2 cars I've probably had most fun on the road in were my 1.6 16v Clio and 1.6 16v Twingo 133, The Twingo out the box is just mega and the Clio with a few choice mods (brakes, suspension, breathing mods) is just the right amount of power to have fun on todays roads without loosing your licence.