172cup vs 200cup

[scalino65]

Ok, so these types of discussion have been done to death already..but..without wishing to bore everyone, could someone who has had both 172 cup and 200 cup kindly give me the benefit of their wisdom please?
So, I live in SW London/Surrey borders, I dont drive to work, I dont commute, my driving is really just ferrying the kids about and wizzing about locally. I do occasionally get up early for a run out to a B road. I used to love my trackdays and blasts round wales,etc but that all seems a long time ago now.. So, given the limited amount of driving i actually do, which of the two cars is going to but the biggest grin on my face? The ideal car spec for me is a little revvy hotrod type of a car, lightweight that make its power from revs rather than torque and so needs to be on cam.
I suspect I am answering my own question and the better "fun" car would be the 172 cup, but I do love the more modern looks of the 200 and the recaro seats!
So, take pity on an indecisive old fool and advise me! Of course either would be great but am I correct to think that the 172 might put a bigger grin on my face than the 200?
All thoughts, insults and random nonsense most gratefully received.
cheers.

 

[imprezaworks]

Most will probably say the 172.

If I had the choice right now. 200.

 

[scalino65]

Hi. Why's that then? Is the 200 revvier? I guess it has a shorter ratios in the box as it has 6 speeds, I love the feeling of having to get your changes right so teh car doesnt go off cam - will i get more of that feeling in the 200 do you think? thanks for your reply

 

[imprezaworks]

I've not driven the 200 but have had my share of 1*2's. The 172 will be more raw, especially the cup.

The 200 would be more grown up, handle better imo but worse on fuel If that's an issue.

I would like to try the 200 they look ace.

 

[marc1330]

It's not quite the same but I moved from a 172 cup to a R26 megane and i couldn't fault the R26 such a nicer place to be sat and do decent journey in , with a few small mods they are a rapid machine and grip so well.
Thankfully though i kept the cup and I have now sold the R26, I'm not sure if it was the weight difference or just how well the R26 did fast but it felt numb compared to the cup.
After i sold the meg i jumped in the clio the other week and went for a sunday morning blast and at first i thought what have i done , rattly interior basic and just starting to looked feel its age inside, but once i got it out on some of my favourite roads i was glad i made the choice to keep the old girl.

 

[scalino65]

Hmm..thats kind of where my thinking is, the 172 makes most sense in terms of what I want from a car, but..the 200 does look amazing! especially the seats! fuel isnt really a big issue - i doubt i'd get close to 3k miles a year,

 

[scalino65]

It's not quite the same but I moved from a 172 cup to a R26 megane and i couldn't fault the R26 such a nicer place to be sat and do decent journey in , with a few small mods they are a rapid machine and grip so well.
Thankfully though i kept the cup and I have now sold the R26, I'm not sure if it was the weight difference or just how well the R26 did fast but it felt numb compared to the cup.
After i sold the meg i jumped in the clio the other week and went for a sunday morning blast and at first i thought what have i done , rattly interior basic and just starting to looked feel its age inside, but once i got it out on some of my favourite roads i was glad i made the choice to keep the old girl.

Thanks for your thoughts. I totally understand the more modern car being "grown up" and much more sophisticated. The 200 is a lovely place to be, but I can also imagine that maybe you can have your fun at lower speeds in the 172 and that something i'm really in favour of. i.e. is the 200 so grippy and capable that you have to be going faster in order for it to feel fun? Just to expand that idea, I see new porsche 911s with massive great aero stuff and enormously wide tyres and it strikes me that they must be very dull to drive on the road as they must be so capable. I want something that you get great feedback from and is great fun without having to be at licence loosing speeds.
I guess, I want to know which feels "wizzier" the 172 or the 200!
I know whats going to happen, I'll get one and then wonder if i made the right choice...then sell it to buy the other..and then regret it,etc,etc...

 

[STEVE.M]

[QUOTE="scalino65, post: 11700812, member: 120031" The ideal car spec for me is a little revvy hotrod type of a car, lightweight that make its power from revs rather than torque and so needs to be on cam.
.[/QUOTE]

You want something where bore is larger than the stroke then?
S2000 Honda comes to mind.

 

[BaileyWolves]

I have had a few Clios and love them and Cup is amazing but from your description ep3 type r I had one mapped at 245bhp and it was incredible only swapped into the cup as kids refused to get in the civic as it sounded mental but enjoying every minute of it

 

[MarkCup]

I had a 172 Cup from new, and later on bought an 18 month old Clio 200 (not a Cup though).

I owned the 172 for 8 years and did 125k miles in it. I owned the 200 for 2 years and did 24k miles in it.

That says it all for me.

 

[Martin.]

172 Cup all day long. Looks much better to in my eyes.

If you're really bothered about Recaro seats, put some in the Cup.

 

[MrBlonde]

Get a 172 Cup,as one of the last Hot Hatches without any electronic adds etc & may hold value as becoming a Modern Classic & most get turned into track cars or wrote off,so becoming bit more rare.
But then i do own a Cup to ?
Maybe go view a 172Cup & a 200,test drive both and go with what you prefer.

 

[NorthloopCup]

I’ve had 2x 172 cups and currently own a 200 with cup chassis.

Sorry to disappoint here, but the 200 is the better car. Chassis and brakes are miles ahead of the 172. Get the changes right and the 200 will live with a 172.

 

[MrBlonde]

How much difference are they on MPG to the 172Cup?.

 

[White16valver]

You can change the seats in a 172 to whatever you want if you really want Recaros.

EDIT: Martin already said it, should have refreshed before posting...

 

[NorthloopCup]

How much difference are they on MPG to the 172Cup?.

Real world 200 mpg is 28/29 if you’re not on it, where as a cup will do 35+.

 

[Amos91]

I’ve had 2x 172 cups and currently own a 200 with cup chassis.

Sorry to disappoint here, but the 200 is the better car. Chassis and brakes are miles ahead of the 172. Get the changes right and the 200 will live with a 172.

Have to say the 200 feels much more composed on track in terms of handling & brakes in standard guise. I think its just the sense of speed on the road it lacks because its more refined.

 

[rs 1an]

The clio 200 cup or any 200 with a cup chassis is very trashy and hates bumps may i suggest a clio 4 rs may be worth a look and it has four doors although rear room is very limited even for children.

 

[scalino65]

I’ve had 2x 172 cups and currently own a 200 with cup chassis.

Sorry to disappoint here, but the 200 is the better car. Chassis and brakes are miles ahead of the 172. Get the changes right and the 200 will live with a 172.

This is interesting. How about the characteristics of power delivery?, it sounds as if the 200 is "peakier" which in my mind is a good thing. I note it makes its max bhp about 1k revs higher than the 172. Does that mean you have to "wring its neck" more to keep it on cam, making use of closer ratios and the extra gear?

MisterBlonde mentioned the "modern classic" aspect. I wonder if it makes sense to get a 172 cup now as non-modded ones are more difficult to find, whereas 200cup with recaros seem a bit more plentiful. That would be on the basis that I could switch in a year or so if I fancied the change.
Also,just out of interest and this doesnt affect my decision, I wonder if 200cup prices will always be supported by 172 cup prices. crystal ball time but could a nice (but not a super low mileage one-off) be worth more than a similar 200cup?
I've found an example of both that Ilike. I tried the 200 and its very nice. Never driven a 172 cup though.
How on earth did anyone ever make a decision before the interwibble was invented?
As in all life's most difficult decisions I can see me taking the only sensible course and tossing a coin.

 

[imprezaworks]

I often browse (one of many) for a 200 with recaros with nice miles and they dont seem ten a penny.

 

[Amos91]

This is interesting. How about the characteristics of power delivery?, it sounds as if the 200 is "peakier" which in my mind is a good thing. I note it makes its max bhp about 1k revs higher than the 172. Does that mean you have to "wring its neck" more to keep it on cam, making use of closer ratios and the extra gear?

MisterBlonde mentioned the "modern classic" aspect. I wonder if it makes sense to get a 172 cup now as non-modded ones are more difficult to find, whereas 200cup with recaros seem a bit more plentiful. That would be on the basis that I could switch in a year or so if I fancied the change.
Also,just out of interest and this doesnt affect my decision, I wonder if 200cup prices will always be supported by 172 cup prices. crystal ball time but could a nice (but not a super low mileage one-off) be worth more than a similar 200cup?
I've found an example of both that Ilike. I tried the 200 and its very nice. Never driven a 172 cup though.
How on earth did anyone ever make a decision before the interwibble was invented?
As in all life's most difficult decisions I can see me taking the only sensible course and tossing a coin.

Sure the 200 cup will have more interest in that 'classic' status but not as much as the 172 Cup will. I think the lack of ABS in the 172 is one of the key factors in its raw appeal, which the 200 doesn't have.

 

[Silent_Scone]

I've not even owned a 200 Cup but could tell you now I'd much rather have it over a 172, Cup or no Cup. I'm not even sure either prestige value on the future classic market is worth quibbling over, as neither will command a premium. The Trophy and V6 are the only ones that hold value. Given how little you can pick up a 200 for now, I'd say it is a no brainer.

 

[NorthloopCup]

This is interesting. How about the characteristics of power delivery?, it sounds as if the 200 is "peakier" which in my mind is a good thing. I note it makes its max bhp about 1k revs higher than the 172. Does that mean you have to "wring its neck" more to keep it on cam, making use of closer ratios and the extra gear?

MisterBlonde mentioned the "modern classic" aspect. I wonder if it makes sense to get a 172 cup now as non-modded ones are more difficult to find, whereas 200cup with recaros seem a bit more plentiful. That would be on the basis that I could switch in a year or so if I fancied the change.
Also,just out of interest and this doesnt affect my decision, I wonder if 200cup prices will always be supported by 172 cup prices. crystal ball time but could a nice (but not a super low mileage one-off) be worth more than a similar 200cup?
I've found an example of both that Ilike. I tried the 200 and its very nice. Never driven a 172 cup though.
How on earth did anyone ever make a decision before the interwibble was invented?
As in all life's most difficult decisions I can see me taking the only sensible course and tossing a coin.

Yeah that’s essentially what you have to do with them mate. Keep them going to the gearchange bleep and change. They don’t feel as urgent as a 172, but that’s because they’re a more refined car in Clio terms.

I’ve got an AG200 with all the desirable bits on it, so Recaros and speedlines. It’s one of 55 AG’s to come out of the factory and 1 of only 2 that came from the factory with a black roof. Does that mean it’ll be more desirable in the future because it’s also low miles (49k) - god knows. Unfortunately I don’t think I’ll have it long enough to find out if this would be the case.

 

[imprezaworks]

Didnt realise it was that rare.

 

[NorthloopCup]

I often browse (one of many) for a 200 with recaros with nice miles and they dont seem ten a penny.

You got a budget?

 

[imprezaworks]

Around 5-5500.

 

[Sunglasses_Ron]

Compared to my 182, both my 200’s are infinitely better imo.

I could never go back to a mk2.

With the cup suspension the 200 handles very very well indeed.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Around 5-5500.

Pity that!

 

[imprezaworks]

How much is yours

 

[NorthloopCup]

How much is yours

Not that cheap mate unfortunately.

 

[MarkCup]

The 200 feels more refined because it's 200 kgs heavier than the 172 Cup!

Picture that 200 kgs, that's a completely full oil drum blunting performance. Yes the 200 is more accomplished, more capable, more comfortable, and more refined, but as an exciting place to sit and drive...if I could go back to owning my 172 or my 200 just as a fun thing to drive just for the sake of driving it would be the 172 every single time.

 

[bloke]

172/182 more torque low down but doses still like to be kept revving.

197/200 driving around town being boring it almost feels lacking as though it's a 1.4 BUT keep it screaming and it's loads of fun especially with the ratios on the box.

From what you've said you want from a car you need the 197/200.

 

[imprezaworks]

The 200 feels more refined because it's 200 kgs heavier than the 172 Cup!

Picture that 200 kgs, that's a completely full oil drum blunting performance. Yes the 200 is more accomplished, more capable, more comfortable, and more refined, but as an exciting place to sit and drive...if I could go back to owning my 172 or my 200 just as a fun thing to drive just for the sake of driving it would be the 172 every single time.

When you say the added weight out loud it's a lot lol.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Not that cheap mate unfortunately.

Is it up for sale now? I might be interested.

 

[cat171]

One thing I don't understand / hate is when a 172 cup owner says 'ooh lack of ABS in the winter, scary!!' Sorry, but if you're relying on it, you clearly don't know how to drive!!

 

[MrBlonde]

One thing I don't understand / hate is when a 172 cup owner says 'ooh lack of ABS in the winter, scary!!' Sorry, but if you're relying on it, you clearly don't know how to drive!!

I know mate,ive never had any probs with braking or wheels locking up because of no ABS.

 

[scalino65]

If you are used to it and can overcome the natural reaction to mash the brake pedal, by modulating the brake yourself you can stop a non-abs car in much less distance than in an abs car.

 

[masekwm]

Most will probably say the 172.

If I had the choice right now. 200.

Mine would be a Megane 250 Cup, 172 Cup prices are going silly, 200 Cup isn't as good, and the 250 is a better car especially with kids.

 

[MrBlonde]

Would love to go for the Meg 250 if i can or Maybe the R26 after the Cup or the BMW 130i M-Sport even.

 

[imprezaworks]

Would love to go for the Meg 250 if i can or Maybe the R26 after the Cup or the BMW 130i M-Sport even.

Yeah on the list was the r and BMW. The latter seem hard to find. In fact both are these days