200BHP N/A Car Vs 200BHP Forced induction.

[Michael172]

Like diesel vs petrol. Only different.

The two cars have the same chassis, and the total weights are the same and have the same suspension and running gear, both engines are equil in weight however one is Run buy a Turbo and the other is a naturally aspirated engine. Both Produce The same BHP Figures of 200BHP......but not the same torque figures.......

 

[172Ben]

are you wanting to know our opinions on which would win?

 

[Tim172]

turbo FTW

 

[nth]

u need to use google. . .two threads in clio discussion about things which aren't really clio related. . .

 

[Stig182]

give yourself a cookie, what's your question?

FAIL!

 

[coatesy]

the 1 with the torque

 

[172Ben]

completely flat round? Up hill?

Same weight of driver?

 

[Michael172]

Drivers weights are the same, flat road.


No one remembered the diesel vs petrol thread then

 

[172Ben]

what kind of turbo? Thats gona make the difference to my answer.

 

[ditz]

you've missed the most important thing.. engine size

2l turbo 200bhp verses 2l N/A same power turbo every time due torque advantage and tunability
1.4 turbo v 2l na both running same power it would have to be the 2l as the 1.4 will lack off boost and at 200bhp probably be suffering with lag

 

[172Ben]

you've missed the most important thing.. engine size

2l turbo 200bhp verses 2l N/A same power turbo every time due torque advantage and tunability
1.4 turbo v 2l na both running same power it would have to be the 2l as the 1.4 will lack off boost and at 200bhp probably be suffering with lag

Wouldnt quite agree with lack off boost, my 1.4 punto was at constant 1.5bar all throught he rev range and through all gears. Depends on the set up thats comes with it IMO.

 

[cat171]

you've missed the most important thing.. engine size

2l turbo 200bhp verses 2l N/A same power turbo every time due torque advantage and tunability
1.4 turbo v 2l na both running same power it would have to be the 2l as the 1.4 will lack off boost and at 200bhp probably be suffering with lag

I was just thinknig that, maybe that was part of his plan though ?

 

[Griff]

Like diesel vs petrol. Only different.

The two cars have the same chassis, and the total weights are the same and have the same suspension and running gear, both engines are equil in weight however one is Run buy a Turbo and the other is a naturally aspirated engine. Both Produce The same BHP Figures of 200BHP......but not the same torque figures.......

Nice statement.

The sky is Blue due to Rayleigh scattering.

 

[scott7912]

Not a expert but would imagine they would be the same, just the power would be put down in a different way, i.e. the torque of the turbo car would have it slightly off the mark, (if it could put its power down), but once the n/a car put its full power down they would be the same.
I know its not the comparison you are asking about but my mate has a bugeye impreza which weights 280kg more than my Trophy but he has about 240bhp, and i keep up with him no bother on the straights, infact initial foot down the Trophy picks up quicker.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Stop posting these threads, just encourages the people without a hint of a clue to post why they chose NA cars and how they make you feel 'alive'.

I'll throw in this bubble of wisdom anyway,

Same peak power, FI will always win, because it will always have more power throughout the rev range.

Doesn't matter if it's diesel or petrol, if we're talking same, car, same driver, same everything, just a different engine, then the one with a turbo/supercharger will win hands down.

 

[Iridium]

This has been done, I think the thread even had the same f**king title. Is this just cos you know people will argue?

It'll be down the driver. Assuming it's a straight drag, a single f**k up, missed gear or whatever, and you've lost.

 

[scott7912]

Stop posting these threads, just encourages the people without a hint of a clue to post why they chose NA cars and how they make you feel 'alive'.

I'll throw in this bubble of wisdom anyway,

Same peak power, FI will always win, because it will always have more power throughout the rev range.

Doesn't matter if it's diesel or petrol, if we're talking same, car, same driver, same everything, just a different engine, then the one with a turbo/supercharger will win hands down.

Thats crap, end of!!!!!!!:rasp:
There will always be a point at which one over rides the other at 200bhp v 200bhp.
The Meagane F1's max torque is at 3000rpm and max power at 5500rpm, according to reno.
And the clio Trophy max torque is at 5200rpm and max power at 6500rpm.
And all the Meagane does with its extra 48bhp and 100nm torque is get about 2 car lenghts ahead in a quick sprint.
SO 200bhp v 200bhp? SAME, down to driver yet again!!!

 

[Steve2004]

In a drag race from a standing start I reckon they'll perform equally.

However any 'in gear' races, e.g. 30-50 in 4th, 40-60 in 5th etc, the turbo will win.


IMO.

 

[The Boosh!]

did you end up taking out the headlight then micheal?

 

[RobHardyUK]

I assume we are talking track conditions. In which case it partly depends on the turbo setup, and power delivery but my money would be on the NA car.

In gear times would go to the turbo yes.

but

engine response would be in the NA engine favour
peak power would be in the NA engine favour (better for when changing gear)
Drive out the corners would be better assuming its not 4wd, because torque isnt always good news

you could compare it like this

Petrol Vs Diesel - both 200hp, the TDI has no top end power its all low down - s**t for track. (the le-mans cars that win are high up power at top of the little rev range).

this is a similar situation, but the petrol has slightly NA focussed characteristics on the TDI. So it looks like this

1. NA - Most Peak RPM Power, least torque, most responsive
2. Turbo Petrol - Good peak RPM power, middle torque, middle responsive
3. TDI - Least Peak RPM Power, Most Torque, least responsive

I would put it in a nut shell that the NA will exit corners quicker, assuming its on the power and also will weigh less as an engine unit so cornering, braking etc all improve on this.

Thats my view

 

[Mike_182]

Actually Clarkson did this with the Jag XJ220 and Pagani Zonda - the XJ220 won because of the collossal amounts of torque as opposed to the Pagani's power.

 

[Russ.]

im guessing what we need here is to compare the Astra GSI to a Civic Type R.

Both 197bhp
Both 2.0 engines
1 turbo'd (the Astra) - 1 N/A (the Civic)

Only thing im not sure on is the weight difference between the two cars?

Would be interesting to see the outcome of a straight line drag race between these cars

0-60
0-100
30-100

etc.

 

[Iridium]

Two of my best mates own and owned a CTR and an Astra GSi respectively

This is the CTR here with my R27 and another mates Mini CS

And here is the GSi with my old Vee and our other mates Astra Coupe Turbo

The Civic and the Astra were exactly even, and the Civic is exactly even with my R27, as it was with the Vee. Interestingly, the Astra was replaced by a Corsa VXR. We did some drag off roundabouts on a 2 laner tests VXR vs my Mk1 Vee and they were exactly even - when the Vee was in front, I pulled no car lengths, and vice versa when the VXR was in front. When I got rid of the Vee, and got the R27 - we did the same test, in the same place with R27 vx VXR and they were also, exactly even, as I reported in this thread here - http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=334038. We both thought he was gonna win tbh, i was chuffed

So there you go, there's a load of different ways of making 'about 200bhp' - 1.6T, 2.0 16v Turbo, 2.0 16v N/A, 3.0 V6 - with broadly similar ish weights (the Coupe an Vee are a bit heavier) and when you're flat out, they're all about the same. As I reported in the VXR vs R27 thread, the R27 was able to get a round the roundabout a bit quicker, but once on the straight it was bang even regardless of who was leading.

I know the Vee had more power on paper but hey, they're pretty heavy and long geared (and usually make 220bhp on the rollers it seems) - it'd win top end because the Corsa and R27 would hit their limiters hehe and the vee would have about 5mph left (if it didn't crash because the front end was so light) if it ever got there, so it'd win by default .

And mine was a good example, well serviced and cared for - but to be fair, knife edge performance wasn't really what the Vee was about for me

 

[Russ.]

I must admit to having a soft spot for the astra coupes/gtis. Theyre a very sexy looking car which is why i came very close to buying one.
The only reason i didnt is that they need suspension mods to even handle remotely well according to the guys on astra sport. Stock they look at a corner and scream death at you...which put me off.

 

[sideways danny]

just comparing power figures with no other info on the car tells you jack s**t TBH. Gear ratios can make up the difference between 200 and 300bhp in certain conditions. That's just one example of a variable and there's so many to think of

 

[Iridium]

I must admit to having a soft spot for the astra coupes/gtis. Theyre a very sexy looking car which is why i came very close to buying one.
The only reason i didnt is that they need suspension mods to even handle remotely well according to the guys on astra sport. Stock they look at a corner and scream death at you...which put me off.

Hmm, to be honest I wouldn't agree with that. The GSi was very good in the corners, s**t loads of grip and very predictable - it'd never throw you into a ditch unexpectedly. Ok it wasn't playful or anything, but as far a basic grip went it was very good. My mate reckons it felt more secure and more planted than the Corsa VXR he has does now.

The Coupe owner never really goes for it in the corners that much, but it's on coilovers now, it was a bit rolly before, but now it corners and grips very well. It's very much at the expense of ride quality though, which is awful now and really, I think a coupe like that is about comfy cruising - which certainly suits the owners driving style. He just did the coils for the looks but for me, I'd have to get shot of them, the ride is really that awful now.

One thing though is that they've both proved to be totally reliable. The only problem the GSi ever had was a boost solenoid that was £24 for the part, and an easy DIY fix well documented on Astra Sport - common fault where dodgy solenoid causes surging of boost. Aside from that it's just been consumables and mods

 

[Tom84]

ive had both a throttle bodies 2.0 corsa and a 2.0 turbo corsa and both were 200bhp, well the turbo wasnt once id finished, and the turbo was by far the quick and more fun to drive on the road due to the torque round the track i would say the na was much better tho but round town/on the road just got boring