any worth while cams for standard ecu?

[Martin_172]

as title is there any worth while cams that can be mapped to run on the standard ecu, dont want to spend a fortune to run standalone management but would be a nice adition to finish off my build and push it over 200bhp

opinions and options?!

 

[Icarus]

CAT428's are an excellent choice.

However you won't get over 200bhp on the standard inlet manifold. Circa 85bhp/litre is about as much as you can realisticaly do.

Cheers
M

 

[Martin_172]

are we talking standard inlet manifold as in the inlet manifold in general or standard as in the standard condition of the ports (its running AWT matched inlet)

 

[Icarus]

Inlet manifold in general. It's a very poor design (from a peak power point of view) and extremely packaging compromised.

IME CAT428's, well done matched inlets (your AWT ones are as good as they will get) with a good ECU calibration optimised for the above will give around 190bhp. You aren't going to get much more than that as the inlet manifold is a major restriction at that point.

With a whole heap of work and money you can just about get 200bhp on the standard manifold but unless you are running in a series that demands you retain the standard inlet manifold there are other much more cost effective options to generate the same/more power for the money.

Cheers
M

 

[Dblock]

what about getting cams ground for a better profile, from new steel. wouldnt that be cheaper

 

[franx]

as title is there any worth while cams that can be mapped to run on the standard ecu, dont want to spend a fortune to run standalone management but would be a nice adition to finish off my build and push it over 200bhp

opinions and options?!

I'm pretty sure that the cams i'm running now are one of the best to run on standard ecu. It was mapped by Fastchip , Henk has'nt come across a better cam profile yet, Schrick gets his second vote. Idle is still okay . Power is awesome (results in my thread)

My opinion (but i never had anything else )

http://www.colombo-bariani.com/popup_dettaglio.php?lang=eng&id_prodotto=103

I followed EN035 on here with his choice because he HAS tried different cams + this one came out best .

 

[sideways danny]

However you won't get over 200bhp on the standard inlet manifold. Circa 85bhp/litre is about as much as you can realisticaly do.

patently untrue. We've seen 210 quite recently on a pesamistic dyno

 

[TooneySonic]

cant go wrong with either schricks, catcam 428's or colombo-bariani

Martin do you know what power yours is pushing out at the moment?

sorry Matt i'm a little confused by the 85bhp/litre ie 170bhp. Are you talking about an unmodified/standard engine??

 

[Fastchip]

The standard log plenum holds up pretty well. Franx Clio is touching 190 REAL engine HP with nothing special apart from the C&B's. Besides that you need to midrange torque with a 5-speed box.

 

[Martin_172]

cant go wrong with either schricks, catcam 428's or colombo-bariani

Martin do you know what power yours is pushing out at the moment?

sorry Matt i'm a little confused by the 85bhp/litre ie 170bhp. Are you talking about an unmodified/standard engine??

no mate not had it on a RR yet, on a very acurate result RR day as standard it ran 173bhp with just an ITG filter so going on that and the gains ive experianced id say its probably around the high 180's but again thats just what i would expect it to run.

cheers for all the advice guys ill have a look into all the suggestions and weigh them up with costs etc.

cheers
martin

 

[Icarus]

Sorry chaps meant 95bhp/litre, i.e. 190bhp total. Wrong key on my numpad!

Cheers
M

 

[Icarus]

patently untrue. We've seen 210 quite recently on a pesamistic dyno

On a standard/matched 73* inlet manifold? Well you're doing better than myself, Sodemo or Oreca can manage then with standard manifold on a relatively standard engine.

Sure you can scrape past 200bhp but the effort and money involved in doing it makes it pointless unless you need to maintain the standard inlet manifold due to series regs.

Set of cams, some matched inlets and a map are not going to give more than 200bhp on the standard manifold!

Cheers
M

 

[sideways danny]

wasn't stock internals, but you sited the manifold as being the limiting factor when it's not.

high comp, headwork and 422s with matched manifolds and a jenvey 65mm TB. A few extra bits but for 20bhp more than you're saying is possible, I dont think it's an issue

 

[Lagerlout]

So the TB is a restriction?

 

[sideways danny]

So the TB is a restriction?

no not really, but slightly larger with a proper belmouth we've seen to give better response and great torque

 

[Icarus]

Danny, I'm not out for an argument here but the standard manifold is a massive restriction. You sell the proof! Why do you think ITB's give a 25bhp gain on a completely standard engine?

Trying to work around the standard manifold beyond 190bhp is simply counter production unless, as I've previously said, you need to retain the standard induction setup for series/championship regs.

Cheers
M

 

[sideways danny]

I know exactly what ITBs can do, and I know exactly what the standard inlet is capable of. Your generated data is inacurate, or inacurately interpreted. There's more to tuning than motorsport too. This isn't productive and i'll leave it there

 

[Icarus]

Sorry Danny you've completely lost me now........

 

[TooneySonic]

okay i dont want to get stuck in here (hoping to be educated at the end of the day )

but i would like to think that whilst the engine on the standard inlet can do big numbers i'd be interested in hearing the cost factor involved ie surely it would just be cheaper and better to fit ITB's?

 

[Icarus]

Exactly Tooney. Replacing the standard inlet system for one offering increased flow and velocity is one of the most cost effective ways to extract more power from an F4R in my experience.

Cheers
M

 

[sideways danny]

okay i dont want to get stuck in here (hoping to be educated at the end of the day )

but i would like to think that whilst the engine on the standard inlet can do big numbers i'd be interested in hearing the cost factor involved ie surely it would just be cheaper and better to fit ITB's?

we did work out the cost factor a quite a while back. one method is quite labour and skill intensive and the other has a greater outlay on parts initially but is easier overall. Throttle bodies have the jump on the stock plenum because of the extra torque they make EVERYWHERE in the rev range

 

[franx]

The standard log plenum holds up pretty well. Franx Clio is touching 190 REAL engine HP with nothing special apart from the C&B's. Besides that you need to midrange torque with a 5-speed box.

Touching 190 ??? Henk, i think you are being very moderate :nono: We touched 174 hp at the wheels ?

In a couple of weeks i want to maybe attend the next RR organised by the Dutch forum and we'll see if you will still be moderate about the 200+ my car is making

No, seriously...