Best Value for money Engine Build Spec.

[Jordysport]

Ok so my car is currently running AT Power ITB's standard cams and OMEX 600 on standard 182 engine (AC & PAS Delete)

I don't want to go silly on the engine as although it is a competition car it is still road legal. seeing as engines are not that expensive (Standard ones) and not a grand sum to be gained from Forged rods and pistons (unless there is an inherit weak point) I was thinking of running my standard 182 Bottom end (with sensible / standard rev limit)

The engine in my car has to come out as will be tarting it up. I have considered buying another engine to build with forged components but see that as unnecessary.

So what i'm asking for is some advice, my plan would be (i've got a spare head) Strip the Cylinder head, Skim it, fit Supertech valves, standard valve springs (reuse?), new collets, standard lifters (reuse?), Cat Cams 421, Matched inlet to my ITB's

from there on i am unsure. I remember a while back a group buy on cylinder head work that proved to be fruitful can anyone recall or recommend?

Then is my dilemma of Exhaust manifold, i currently have a 182 one. i've seen the PMS Exhaust manifold but that is excessive for my spec, are there any others on the market or is the 182 one perfectly sufficient? & Match exhaust ports

Then refit this head to my standard bottom end? (or with ARP Bolts)

I'm not seeking massive peak power 220bhp would be sufficient and i think that is the most economically that can be achieved.

Some recommendations would be great, I've been out of the Cliosport game for a while.

 

[Jordysport]

One more thing i forgot to mention. for the minimal gains/reliability of Forged Rods and Pistons (unless an inherit weak point) i'd rather spend the money on a Gripper diff or ATB diff.

 

[Jamie86]

Imo don't bother with a forged bottom end do as you say with the top end.
I know a few guys who race with a similar setup and there is nothing in it with them verus "built" engines.
A dif and roll centre kit would be where my money goes instead.

 

[Jordysport]

Ph1 Cylinder head???

 

[marinemackay2003]

Arp bolts and get the head done , 197 cams maybe ? As cheaper
I would use the 182 manifold no real gain just easier to de cat ect
If you have the budget maybe a lightened flywheel too

 

[Jamie86]

Ph1 Cylinder head???

I know some who say ports are too big and vice versa so personal preference I would just send a ph2 182 head off for a port and Polish personally.
@BIGASH @Tony Hunter

 

[Martin.]

ARP bolts. Get the head done by @ALD. Supertech valves. 197 valve springs over 182 valve springs. I wouldn't bother with forged or high comp personally. Will just mean much bigger repair bills if anything goes wrong.

182 manifold is sufficient, or get the PMS one if you have monies to burn.

 

[Tony Hunter]

We used to run a port and polished head, 421 cams, supertec valves, and arp rod bolts.
All this along with ATpower boddies, and had just under 220. Fairly cheap spec really.

 

[Jordysport]

ALD are doing the head in discussions at the moment with Supertech valves. (Clio 182 head)

@TonyHunter that is the sort of spec i'm after and your right it is a cheap spec.

ARP bolts typically something that fails on the Clio i'm not wanting much more than standard Revs, just for easy to throw a standard bottom end on my head.

 

[Martin.]

ALD are doing the head in discussions at the moment with Supertech valves. (Clio 182 head)

@TonyHunter that is the sort of spec i'm after and your right it is a cheap spec.

ARP bolts typically something that fails on the Clio i'm not wanting much more than standard Revs, just for easy to throw a standard bottom end on my head.

You'd definitely want ARP rod bolts yes. ARP head bolts not necessary. 197 valve springs a good addition if the head is apart anyway.

 

[bozothenutter]

Why not go the 197/200 internals and head on a 182 block way.
The head is supposed to be superior to to the previuos ones, you gain a bit in compression and all the moving bits are better quality...not an expert, just parroting....

 

[scotiamr2t]

I am currently in the same boat, have a spare ph1 head but not sure if headwork and cams are worth the cost/hassle for the gains they will give.

 

[Jordysport]

Why not go the 197/200 internals and head on a 182 block way.
The head is supposed to be superior to to the previuos ones, you gain a bit in compression and all the moving bits are better quality...not an expert, just parroting....

Does anyone have some expert opinion on this?

 

[Jordysport]

Looks like the 197 head lowers the compression (the opposite of what i need) and doesn't appear to gain much.

 

[Jordysport]

You'd definitely want ARP rod bolts yes. ARP head bolts not necessary. 197 valve springs a good addition if the head is apart anyway.

Looks like i'm gonna be rebuilding the bottom end now (but to standard spec + ARP Bolts and ACL bearings)

197 Valve springs - where is best to get them? just to balance up Cat cams uprated valve springs are £144.00 and supertech ones £119.00

 

[Martin.]

Looks like i'm gonna be rebuilding the bottom end now (but to standard spec + ARP Bolts and ACL bearings)

197 Valve springs - where is best to get them? just to balance up Cat cams uprated valve springs are £144.00 and supertech ones £119.00

When I looked into springs. The upgraded cat cam ones and similar, were actually too much for my standard build with 421s and ITBS. They needed a more aggressive cam from memory to compress the stiffer spring... Something along those lines. So my engine builder advised against them. (lots of pics of my standard ish build in my thread by the way)

197 springs I'm not sure where to source now days. Try Engine Dynamics in Essex. They have a great mail order site too. Or another tuner like SJM. Someone who is likely to have upgraded a 197 owners cams to cat cams and been left with the standard ones in a box.

 

[bozothenutter]

Looks like the 197 head lowers the compression (the opposite of what i need) and doesn't appear to gain much.

That's why I said use the internals aswell.....basically stuff an 197/200 engine inside a 182 block ups the compression to 11.5:1 and some say the crank is lighter.....

 

[GrahamS]

I got my 197 springs from Barrie at ALS performance. They're pretty much the same price as the supertech ones if you buy them brand new. £118 last time I spoke to Renault.
Eventually I'm going boost but my demands are quite similar, not too expensive but reliable. I'm going for supertech valves, 197 springs, arp bolts and some light headwork (undecided if I'll do this myself or not). Everything else will be standard but I'll get the rotating set up balanced.

 

[marc1330]

Im getting very good results from a similar set-up.
Stock bottom end except ARP's, KTEC bodies, Gen90, 421's, ported head with supertec's and a lightened flywheel.
Individually the mods were not too significant but tied together and some decent mapping makes her a flier now!!!

 

[Jamie86]

Fitting 197 parts can technically affect eligibility if it's for racing would be my main concern..

 

[mikekean]

Standard pistons are known to start breaking up with sustained high RPM usage, id look at some forged pistons for reliability. This is the route i will be going down, just going for the mildest NA ones they do. Think they are 11.8:1.

 

[Tony Hunter]

2yrs of racing on an old engine that had done 97k, all 40 min races. A rod let go, not a piston.

 

[Jordysport]

Considering buying a temporary engine for the car, a Ph1 engine with 197 cams i see people with that spec have achieved around 187bhp. is anyone running these with ITb's and Standalone. Would just like a comparison. anything over 200bhp should suffice.