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Best way to get power out of a 1*2



J

jack_kemp

  Stripped yozza'd cup
This is just out of interest at the moment, but with an aim to start in the summer when I get another car to use daily.

What are the pro's / con's of each of the following. And also, which would people suggest gives the best power gains for time/cost.

- itb's
- jms manifold
- turbo / SC
- meggy engine conversion.
 
Gouldy

Gouldy

  CBR1000RR Fireblade
Cams IMO using the standard inlet.

That would be the route I'd go down.

Breathing mods, a good geometry set up. Head work, cams, live map.

It will be an animal then
 
J

jack_kemp

  Stripped yozza'd cup
I'm not looking at doing it for the fact that it needs more power as such, more for the enjoyment of doing the work. The power would just be an added bonus.

I'm not planning on selling the car, so my money being lost on resale etc isn't important to me.

Gouldy, that could be a good way to take it. I have porting equipment already and my dad is very experienced with tuning race motorcycle engines. Has anyone taken on extensive head work on a Clio?

The jms manifold is very tempting also, even if just for the noise it makes.
 
A

Andyman

  Ph1
Gouldy said:
Cams IMO using the standard inlet.

That would be the route I'd go down.

Breathing mods, a good geometry set up. Head work, cams, live map.

It will be an animal then
Click to expand...


Exactly same mods as iv got.

Quicker car, yes but far better less hassle and a lot cheaper routes to go down now..

If i could turn back the clock id a saved all the outlay and put it towards a supercharger or turbo conversion. Something impressive to see for the money rather than a few KKK's for a a handful of ponies and torque
 
J

jack_kemp

  Stripped yozza'd cup
I really quite fancy the s/c, something very appealing about it. I think I'll be waiting a few months to see how well they stay together first though. Don't want to be doing all that work for it to melt itself a month down the line....

If the forced induction route is the way to go though, would people not recommend the f4rt conversion? Engine that's designed to have boost and all that?
 
T

T.Trophy

  Trophy,R26,GSXR1000
Your best bet is to think of what your long term power goal is then work out how to get to it.

The f4rt is designed for boost but the most you'll get out of a stock engine is around 260bhp and there'll be custom fabrication costs on top of that, obviously if you can do all that your self it might be the cheapest option. There are two F4RT clios being built in the Northeast one was running last night and the other should be finished next week, both have done it with a different approach so it'll be good to see which one is best.

If you want to go down the SC route then you've just missed out on a bargain as Russ had his SC conversion on ebay for a paltry £2000 start price and it didn't sell, he's not relisted it so I'll assume he's struck up a private sale with some lucky person.

A Turbo will give you a lot more flexibility, you could build a low pressure conversion using a 300bhp turbo then if you ever want to take it a step further you could upgrade the internals and turn the boost up. Turbo's also give you the flexibility of turning the boost down when your not in a hurry and saving some fuel :D
 
J

jack_kemp

  Stripped yozza'd cup
^^ this is very true. I hadn't thought about boost control.

I think the deciding factor between turbo and SC will be which proves to be the most reliable long term. As the 'charged cars are only really appearing now, I'd want wait a few months.

I didn't realise the power available from the meggy engine was so limited... That pretty much rules it out as a viable option.
 
T

T.Trophy

  Trophy,R26,GSXR1000
Don't get me wrong you can swap stuff like the injectors, turbo and fit a larger intercooler to exceed 260bhp with a F4RT engine so it has potential, however 300bhp is the limit with the stock internals if you want to retain reliability and longetivity as Paul snapped a con rod when he went beyond this level.

Both the SC and turbo conversions are reliable, mines been turbo'd for two years now and apart from a snapeed coolant joiner it's been 100% reliable admittedly I've broken a gearbox but the engine has been spot on. Theres plenty of others to, who have had work carried out and there still going strong after countless track days and 1000's of miles.

The biggest problem I've found is people have conversions carried out then experience teething issues, then because they've had other people carry out the work they don't know how to rectify the issues and they become disheartened at the thought of going back to the tuner everytime they have a problem, as such they sell up and move on.

Personally I think a well spec'd low pressure Turbo conversion would produce very good figures and possibly out perform the SC kit but theres no way I'm refitting stock internals to prove this.
 
J

jack_kemp

  Stripped yozza'd cup
Tony Hunter said:
If you want something quicker,then buy another car.
Click to expand...

I know Tony, but as said above, it's for the enjoyment of doing it more than anything.

Thanks Stevie, you've been a big help.
I don't doubt that youd get more peak power from a turbo, but I don't know whether that would translate into speed.... The accessibility of the power from a supercharger may make it a better option.
 
I

Icarus

I think to decide how and if a power increase is required you first need to look at what application the car will be used for. If it's a road car a bit of boost makes sense as it's fairly low duty cycle and a stock engine will last well. If it's a track/race car then the added throttle response, lower fuel burn rate and of course series/championship rules means ITB's make sense, especialy when circa 200bhp is available from a stock scrap yard engine (so no expensive internals etc.).

It's horses for courses, there is no one correct answer. For me an ITB'd Clio on circuit is a joy to drive especialy with some sticky tyres and trick dampers as they pick up and handle so well. My everyday road car would destroy one in a straight line but is no where near as much fun on track!
 
J

jack_kemp

  Stripped yozza'd cup
It will be my weekend and track day car. I haven't got any plans to race it as yet, but as the project develops I may well change my mind.

I'll be ordering some kw v2's on payday and will strip it out as soon as the gf gets her new car (she says we need 4 seats :( ) it'll be staying like that until early summer when I can get another car to use as a daily.

I'd like to decide what I'm doing with it in the next week or so to allow me time to prepare everything, start buying bits and planning things.

So for a combined road / track car you'd suggest itb's? The only thing that puts me off these is the jms inlet, comparable gains for half the money.
 
Dean.

Dean.

  R26
Ive never had itbs so cant comment on them, but the thing that attracted me to the jms inlet, and the reason i bought it, is the everyday driveablilty.
Yes the peak figures are just below them of itbs but you get good low down power. For me, using my car as a daily, the jms manifold suits me down to the ground, however as this wont be your daily, you could probably live with itbs alot easier than what i could?
 
J

jack_kemp

  Stripped yozza'd cup
From what I've seen, the hp figures seem to be very similar between the jms and itb's, but the jms is down on torque a bit, yes?
Jms does give a beautifully smooth torque curve though...

This is even more difficult than choosing my wheels!
 
RSTuning

RSTuning

ClioSport Club Member
  R35 GTR
There will never be a best way, if you have no goal as to what you want i guarantee it will cost you a lot of money and you probably wont be happy.

Work out exactly what you want/need then look at the best way to get to that point.
 
F

focrs

  172 cup
What about a custom super charger ?????
I just don't see where all the cost come from £4000???????
 
J

jack_kemp

  Stripped yozza'd cup
Focrs, I'll gave to look in to this option... As you say, I'd imagine It would work out cheaper. Dangerous when you're doing something that's as yet unexplored though....

Rstuning, ideally I'd like to see 240hp but I would sacrifice a bit of peak power for more mid range, important to keep it as drivable as possible to keep the chuckable, fun aspect of the Clio alive. Any more than that and I'd have to be looking at getting an LSD and that's getting a bit serious really....
 
N

Nick172Cup

jack_kemp said:
From what I've seen, the hp figures seem to be very similar between the jms and itb's, but the jms is down on torque a bit, yes?
Jms does give a beautifully smooth torque curve though...

This is even more difficult than choosing my wheels!
Click to expand...

Thats peak figures... For decent duration of torque the JMS manifold is far greater, changing the power delivery on the engine was one of the best things about the kit. Plus a hell of lot cheaper than an ITB kit!

Also if your going to be using it on track IMO N/A is the way to go, engine and other component reliability will be far greater and you wont be spending thousands to make it/keep it reliable like a forced inducted kit.

When my clio is back on the road I can always take you out for a spin to see what you think, your not far away from where I live.

Nick
 
J

jack_kemp

  Stripped yozza'd cup
That would be great if you wouldn't mind nick. The sound of the jms inlet is tempting me... Nothing better than a gorgeous induction note ;)

Anyone local got a turbo/sc car that they fancy taking me for a drive in??
 
N

Nick172Cup

focrs - Because there is far more fun in driving the car once it has been done, nothing's worse than having a car sitting there for over a year doing nothing because you want to come up with something yourself.
 
Last edited:
J

jack_kemp

  Stripped yozza'd cup
focrs said:
Where is the fun in moding your car if it is some body else work and ideas.
Click to expand...

This is one of the main reasons that I'm drawn to the forced induction route... It allows a lot more scope for imagination and tinkering. But then I may end up with a garage full of bits and a worthless engine and months wasted.
 
J

jack_kemp

  Stripped yozza'd cup
If I had the space I'd buy a ph1 as well, just to mess around with. Then I can do what I wish to it and not worry how long it takes or what goes wrong along the way...
 
N

Nick172Cup

jack_kemp said:
That would be great if you wouldn't mind nick. The sound of the jms inlet is tempting me... Nothing better than a gorgeous induction note ;)

Anyone local got a turbo/sc car that they fancy taking me for a drive in??
Click to expand...

Jack, yeah no worries. The driveability is the best thing about it and ecnomical also, the noise is nice as well ;)

Dont know of anyone local that has either of the turbo/sc'd conversion done.
 
tom172cup

tom172cup

  big boost cup
jack_kemp said:
That would be great if you wouldn't mind nick. The sound of the jms inlet is tempting me... Nothing better than a gorgeous induction note ;)

Anyone local got a turbo/sc car that they fancy taking me for a drive in??
Click to expand...

i have the S/C conversion and there is a meet in the forest tommorow. the engine makes some very nice noises to
 
J

jack_kemp

  Stripped yozza'd cup
focrs said:
Car maybe in garage but time scale is only as long as in how good you are with your hands
Click to expand...

But when you're doing something that's not been done before there's always going to be unforeseen complications. I could easily end up waiting months for a tiny component and completely ruin my build schedule....

Maybe I'll buy a second engine... Then I can do as I wish with it and drop it in if it works out.
 
F

focrs

  172 cup
jack_kemp said:
But when you're doing something that's not been done before there's always going to be unforeseen complications. I could easily end up waiting months for a tiny component and completely ruin my build schedule....

Maybe I'll buy a second engine... Then I can do as I wish with it and drop it in if it works out.
Click to expand...

A second engine would be best then just drop it inwhen ready
 
olliemilsom

olliemilsom

  Cup Packed BG 182
If you fancy doing some work why dont you look into a home made itb conversion, few have done it on here can be done very cheap if your willing to do the work.
 
I

Icarus

jack_kemp said:
Focrs, I'll gave to look in to this option... As you say, I'd imagine It would work out cheaper. Dangerous when you're doing something that's as yet unexplored though....

Rstuning, ideally I'd like to see 240hp but I would sacrifice a bit of peak power for more mid range, important to keep it as drivable as possible to keep the chuckable, fun aspect of the Clio alive. Any more than that and I'd have to be looking at getting an LSD and that's getting a bit serious really....
Click to expand...

If you want 240bhp then you want boost as an NA 120bhp/litre engine is going to be fairly unsuitable for road use and require attention every 10K KMs or so.
 
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