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Big gay wings, do they really work on track?



JB21

ClioSport Club Member
Looking for a bit more stability at higher speeds for the MR2 on track especially for my local tracks Oulton and Aintree where they have high speeds corners. My plan is to fit a GT type wing like the linked one below which looks similar to the Seibon CF 3D GT wing. No need for a crazy expensive one and don't want a stupidly oversized tall one either.

So has anyone got experience with fitting one and seeing the benefit on track?

Decent comparison video below although its in Japanese but you can see the difference one makes at Tsukuba on a 200sx, much more stable on entry and exit and just under a second a lap quicker, cant really argue with that.


 

Cribert

ClioSport Club Member
  Cup 172
As far as I’m aware aero is very speed dependant ie the higher the speed the more effective. A short tight track you won’t be able to make use of any downforce
 

JB21

ClioSport Club Member
As far as I’m aware aero is very speed dependant ie the higher the speed the more effective. A short tight track you won’t be able to make use of any downforce
It would come off for a tight track as it just increases drag and weight. Think they only really start to produce down force at 80mph+
 

JamesBryan

ClioSport Club Member
  Titanium 182
If angled/designed properly they do work.

There's a video i'll find the link for, of a guy who races a DC2. His whole rear hatch with wing flew off recently at Silverstone during a race and it caused him to spin, so it must have been doing something.
 
  406 V6, Race Buggy
Doesn't need to be bolted to the chassis at all, just depends how the mountings flex. Hell my rear wing bolts to some thin 2mm ally straps on the mudguards and it'll have 10x the downforce these ebay specials develop - you just have to remember that the drag as well as the downforce is pretty much turning it into a huge torque wrench trying to twist your boot or rear wings off, whereever you have it mounted needs some strength.
 

shiftspark

ClioSport Club Member
  FiST3
Does it have to be a big wing ? gurney flaps have some effect like when TT's had problems and Audi fitted a small wing to reduce lift. I think its a very complicated thing to get right I think there used to be a trackway magazine that ran articles on a track car and had some very good explanations on how lift and drag etc work Ill see if its online but there are some good books around on the subject or have a look around at a sprint day and see what people are using ? I think Aintree sprint is in a few weeks.
 

JB21

ClioSport Club Member
.
Does it have to be a big wing ? gurney flaps have some effect like when TT's had problems and Audi fitted a small wing to reduce lift. I think its a very complicated thing to get right I think there used to be a trackway magazine that ran articles on a track car and had some very good explanations on how lift and drag etc work Ill see if its online but there are some good books around on the subject or have a look around at a sprint day and see what people are using ? I think Aintree sprint is in a few weeks.
Yeah it's a minefield really as without a wind tunnel you wouldn't have a clue on where to fit one on the rear and how to set it up in height and angle.
 

massivewangers

ClioSport Club Member
  Several
I would think that almost anything off-the-shelf is going to have very little impact, other than adding some drag. The vast majority of aftermarket stuff is purely for looks and won't have been anywhere near a wind tunnel or anyone with aerodynamic knowledge.

This is worth a look: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Competition-Car-Aerodynamics-A-Practical-Handbook-2nd-Edition-Fine-Like-New/113797066237?epid=97778761&hash=item1a7ed56dfd:g:X8oAAOSww4JcdG0y

The author has also written plenty of stuff in Race Tech, Race Car Engineering etc etc, and has done plenty of consulting, including the rear wing/splitter on the Top Gear 330D Britcar racer. There are some articles on his website that are probably worth reading: http://www.sm-designs.co.uk/articles.html

It's a minefield, and easy to waste a lot of money.
 

Rojer

ClioSport Club Member
  Civic
I don't know what the aero is like on the standard MR2 im guessing pretty much non-existent. A proper front splitter would make a difference along with a flat floor and diffuser. Things like that would probably make more of a difference than bolting a wing on.
 

JB21

ClioSport Club Member
I don't know what the aero is like on the standard MR2 im guessing pretty much non-existent. A proper front splitter would make a difference along with a flat floor and diffuser. Things like that would probably make more of a difference than bolting a wing on.
Cost a lot more money and effort as well.
 

Rojer

ClioSport Club Member
  Civic
Cost a lot more money and effort as well.
Really? Surely even if you went TG style and had an MDF splitter and some thin sheet steel for underneath it would be less than a wing from a big name manufacturer?
 

MarkCup

ClioSport Club Member
I recall that drag cubes with speed and downforce squares with speed.

So, comparing 50mph & 100mph;

You need 8x more power at the higher speed but only get 4x as much downforce in return.

That suggests to me that on an MR2 you'd struggle to generate anything significant enough to make it worthwhile in return.

I'm not Adrian Newry though.
 

1985michael182

ClioSport Club Member
  clio 182
flat floor, low side skirts and a diffuser at 7 degree ( iirc ) would be my choice
Anyone on here ever done the flat floor? Thing is your trading power to weight ratios with cornering down force. If you had a 300-350bhp per ton clio then I can understand the extra down force required as you have the power to use it at higher speeds.
 

JB21

ClioSport Club Member
Right, instead of fitting a big gay wing I've decided to try and reduce lift, drag and improve air flow over the car.

What I've noticed with the MR2 is it has a big air bubble behind the hardtop going down the rear deck as the rear window and 80% of the rear deck doesnt really get wet when driving in the rain. Also I noticed when my mate was flicking cigs out the window at motorway speeds the butts were travelling over the bubble around a foot away from the contour of the rear and then suddenly moving vertically bouncing off the end of the boot lid.

So after much reading on aero and reading on various MR2 forums its seems fitting vortex generators to the back of the hardtop and fitting a small lip spoiler and the end of the boot lid reduces this bubble effect and increases air flow over the body of the car.

Parts were only £20 so it's worth a punt. Also if it does improve the airflow then a big gay wing would be much more effective with low pressure flowing under the wing and high pressure over.

Vortex generators will look a bit shite but if they're functional then I'm not arsed how they look.

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