Blue Book Changes

[lsdweb]

Hi All
The revisions to the 2017 Blue Book have been published - https://www.msauk.org/assets/rulechangesseptember2016.pdf
Regards
Wyn

 

[gb270_calum]

Saw this yesterday, still about confused with the classes, I just bought a 172 to race in hill climbs and sprints and was going to race in the a2 class which is sort of road/modafied car class.

Unsure if this class still exists now or has the show room class taking over from this? If so my plans for my Clio over this winter has changed as I can't mod it now.

Hopefully it's showroom class, a2 then b2 as showroom class to b2 class is a massive jump.

 

[GrahamV182]

Hi ... yes it is confusing. Hope I can help:

• The Motorsports Association is the UK governing body.
• Each year they produce a Blue Book which defines rules and regulations for that year.
• The Blue Book defines broad 'Categories' such as 'road going series production' , 'road going specialist production', 'modified series production', etc, etc.
• Looking at Sprint and Hillclimb: each event has 'Classes' defined by the organising club .... such as 'road going series production up to 1400cc' and 'road going series production up to 2000cc'
• Classes vary across the UK and are usually in line with the area's championship (eg Midland hillclimb championship, South West Championship, etc). As an example there is no up to 2 litre class in the ASWMC Championship but there is in the HSA Championship !!! So in your example A2 means different things to different clubs.

So ... you build a car to fit within the appropriate MSA category (Standard, Road Going or Modified) as per Blue Book ..... and you then enter an event Class based on the MSA Category, CC of the car and the Class as defined in the event regulations (copy with the entry form).

Hope this makes sense?

 

[GrahamV182]

Forgot to say .... A Clio 172 with tax and MOT, running on list 1b tyres will still fit into 'Road Going Series Production'..... Unless you have stripped the interior? The full definition is in section 11 of the Blue Book.

This category is still valid for 2017 as is one of the most popular. It translates into class A2 or Class A3 depending on where you are in the country. Also check the local club regulations as some clubs / championships don't allow List 1B tyres in their class A2/A3.. Most do ... but double check.
G

 

[Mertin]

The confusion for me just now is with regards to the circled part below.

It mentions regulations for standard cars, and then goes on to mention road going series production cars, which for myself and Calum is currently A2 (up to 2000cc) and has quite a wide range of modifications permitted and also list 1b tyres.

So is the changes below with regards to tyres and modifications for standard cars (is there even a class titled this?) or for road going series production

 

[lsdweb]

From what I can see, the only changes to the Sprint and Hillclimb section relate to the Standard Car class so road going series production won't change.
This year, I ran my Cup in the Welsh Championship's road rally class but was usually dumped into A2 for most events - finished second overall in the championship, losing out on first by 12 hundredths of a second!

Wyn

 

[GrahamV182]

Correct .... no changes to road going series production. The pdf issued by the MSA mainly covers the Blue Book changes for the introduction of the new 'Standard' category.

It's very confusing because the pdf only shows the sections that have changed. ... The sections that have not changed are not shown.

The MSA Tyre Lists (list 1a, 1b and 1c) have not been published yet ... so hold fire if you need new tyres for 2017.

 

[Brushwood69]

@GrahamV182 is correct. The new standard class allows for no modifications to the car beyond those associated with fia approved safety. It also has the new 1.7x turbo multiplier that is not applied in road going(A1,2,3,4) and other classes. If you lower it, change the exhaust, change induction etc etc you have to move to the A class oh and it can only use 1a tyres.

 

[lsdweb]

The best way to read the changes is to look at what's changed in the link and also look at the 2016 Blue Book - if it's not changed it should be the same as this year. Tyre lists may change although there doesn't seem to be any news and the meeting was a couple of weeks ago I think.

 

[McGherkin]

Autosolos must be no greater than 200x200m? Must turn at least 90 degrees every 60 metres?

Well, that's Kemble screwed then. So much for Autosolo being similar to the American AutoX.

 

[Salesy1972]

Check the wheel regs too, as far as standard road going classes go you must not use aftermarket wheels. So my 172 cup has got to be on Turinis. After speaking to a MSA steward at my last sprint he said the car must be on the wheels that the car left the factory with.
Also list 1b tyres are not permitted in class A1 or A2 standard up to 1600cc and 2000cc respectively.

The 200m x 200 restriction is for Autotests not Autosolos.

I hope that clears up some confusion

 

[lsdweb]

There are no restrictions in the Blue Book on which wheels you can use.
Also, 1B tyres are allowed in road going categories ("11.6.2. Except for Period Defined Vehicles (Non-Rally) A-H inclusive tyres are to L List 1A and List 1B").
Individual championships may introduce their own classes based on the Blue Book, with further restrictions.

Wyn

QUOTE="Salesy1972, post: 11238714, member: 115408"]Check the wheel regs too, as far as standard road going classes go you must not use aftermarket wheels. So my 172 cup has got to be on Turinis. After speaking to a MSA steward at my last sprint he said the car must be on the wheels that the car left the factory with.
Also list 1b tyres are not permitted in class A1 or A2 standard up to 1600cc and 2000cc respectively.

The 200m x 200 restriction is for Autotests not Autosolos.

I hope that clears up some confusion[/QUOTE]

 

[Salesy1972]

Sorry Wyn,

Approved changes as of Sept 16.
11.9.1.1. Road-Going

150cm behind

Production Cars
– Saloons and Sports Cars produced in quantities of not less than 5000 per annum of unitary ferrous construction, two wheel drive and up to 2litre engine capacity. The cars must be manufactured after 1st January 2000 and be type approved. Any replacement components fitted must be a Standard Part/Standard Pattern Part.

11.9.1.2. Cars must compete in an event in a road legal condition. Fleet insurance policies and/or trade plates are not permitted.

11.9.1.3. Permitted Modifications Other than as detailed, no other modifications are permitted:
(i) Any FIA/MSA approved/homologated safety equipment may be installed.

(ii) Brake friction material may be uprated.

Engine

11.9.1.4. Forced induction equivalence 1.7.

Wheels and tyres

11.9.1.5. Standard wheels and tyres from List 1A only may be used.


I Need to know this as i compete in a sprint series in my RX8 which is run by MSA.

 

[Salesy1972]

Hence why i am on the lookout for a set of 16" Turns for my Cup as want to give that a run out at some point for the shorter and tighter tracks.
The RX8 is unbeatable in Class A2 (standard up to 2000cc).

 

[lsdweb]

11.9 is for the new Standard Class, not Road-Going Series Production Cars (the usual A1, A2 etc).

 

[lsdweb]

11.9 is an additional class for Standard Cars (5000 plus produced per year) - there don't appear to be any changes to regs for Roadgoing Series Production Cars and Roadgoing Specialist Production Cars apart from mentions of the Standard Car Class.

Wyn

 

[Salesy1972]

11.9 is for the new Standard Class, not Road-Going Series Production Cars (the usual A1, A2 etc).

Has a new class been created then? If so i apologise for not knowing. I was under the impression class A1 and A2 were basically standard production classes as before with tighter rules to allow people to join in with standard cars and not let people with minimal modifications out class them.

I am all for keeping it simple in A1 and A2, That way no-one can be accused of having a mod that is (illegal)

 

[GrahamV182]

11.9 is an additional class for Standard Cars (5000 plus produced per year) - there don't appear to be any changes to regs for Roadgoing Series Production Cars and Roadgoing Specialist Production Cars apart from mentions of the Standard Car Class.

Wyn

Agreed ..... no changes to Roadgoing Series Production category. The only thing to be aware of are there may be some changes to the Tyre Lists. I have heard two rumours -
1) some tyres in certain compounds may move from List 1C to List 1B.
2) The tyre manufacturers want to introduce new tyres into list 1B.

But I must stress only 'rumours'.....

Graham

 

[lsdweb]

Yes. The Standard Car class is new.

 

[Sonic Boom]

Agreed ..... no changes to Roadgoing Series Production category. The only thing to be aware of are there may be some changes to the Tyre Lists. I have heard two rumours -
1) some tyres in certain compounds may move from List 1C to List 1B.
2) The tyre manufacturers want to introduce new tyres into list 1B.

But I must stress only 'rumours'.....

Graham

As Graham has said no changes to Road Going Production Class, only an addition of the Standard Road Going Class (which may not be included in some championships)
As for tyres there's certainly rumors afoot, speaking to Avon they said they had no intention of making the old ZZR's compatible for 1B's and were happy with the ZZS's to fill that role.
Kumho on the other hand were not happy with all the V70's being dumped into 1C, being uphappy and doing something about it are two different things thou lol
Nankang AR1's I believe already meet the criteria for 1B's but weren't passed off in time for 1B status so may well be in the 1B list for 2017
But at this stage it's all pure spectulation lets hope for some favourable out comes when the 2017 BB comes out.
Rich