Cars are snitches now.

[McGherkin]

Interesting tidbit of news.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/data-sharing-insurers-gm-onstar-smart-driver-app/

So, you buy a car, the dealer activates Smart Driver without your knowledge because they get a kickback for signing you up to it.

Smart Driver is a service that, on the face of it, monitors the way you drive using all the sensors and data in the car and gives you tips on how you can be more efficient, yada yada.

However, it also happens to sell your data to a third party, who then sells that data to insurance companies.

Your car has been tracking your driving (@Waitey ), insurance companies now won't touch you, and the manufacturer of your car makes, quote, 'low millions' from ratting you out.

The GM case is particularly egregious because people have been signed up to it without people knowing, but plenty of manufacturers now offer this driver scoring thing and you can pretty much guarantee that it's going to become the default eventually. Yay.

 

[Ray Gin]

@Sunglasses_Ron

 

[botfch]

Interesting tidbit of news.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/data-sharing-insurers-gm-onstar-smart-driver-app/

So, you buy a car, the dealer activates Smart Driver without your knowledge because they get a kickback for signing you up to it.

Smart Driver is a service that, on the face of it, monitors the way you drive using all the sensors and data in the car and gives you tips on how you can be more efficient, yada yada.

However, it also happens to sell your data to a third party, who then sells that data to insurance companies.

Your car has been tracking your driving (@Waitey ), insurance companies now won't touch you, and the manufacturer of your car makes, quote, 'low millions' from ratting you out.

The GM case is particularly egregious because people have been signed up to it without people knowing, but plenty of manufacturers now offer this driver scoring thing and you can pretty much guarantee that it's going to become the default eventually. Yay.

It’s been like that for a while on all our work vehicles, you get flagged up on a board in hr if you drive the vehicles too fast etc.

 

[The Psychedelic Socialist]

I'm already resigned to the fact that I'll probably only own one more 'fun' car after this one, then it'll be kitchen appliances until they take my license.

 

[McGherkin]

It’s been like that for a while on all our work vehicles, you get flagged up on a board in hr if you drive the vehicles too fast etc.

Telematics is absolutely nothing new. Built into the car, reporting to most insurers and turned on without your knowledge, that's the new bit.

We have telematics too in the work vans but to say it's ropey is an understatement. I've seen someone hit 60 in a 20 in a work van once and nothing was said, yet another van would give you a red light every time you drove around a corner normally.

 

[donnylad]

Every vehicle I drive in the fire service apart from the fire engine has the same, you swipe your driver ID card when you get in and it monitors the telemetry and has a light system on the screen where if you accelerate too hard or brake / corner too hard it lights up for a split second, if it stays on too long it permanently stays on. If you get three lights on it gets sent to HR, obviously stops as soon as you flick to 999 mode.

 

[SharpyClio]

Old cars for the win! Especially against modern cars where the owners will be to scared of big bro to race you from the lights.

 

[Bluebeard]

Trade policy FTW. 👌🏽

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

As far as I know, I still hold the record for the fastest recorded speed out of a Waitrose van.

'If you werent leaving in 2 months, you would be fired'.....'Oh, Ill go now, shall I?'.....'Oh, no no, its fine. Im not impressed.'

In my defence, I was told to speed my deliveries up
🤷‍♂️

 

[botfch]

Telematics is absolutely nothing new. Built into the car, reporting to most insurers and turned on without your knowledge, that's the new bit.

We have telematics too in the work vans but to say it's ropey is an understatement. I've seen someone hit 60 in a 20 in a work van once and nothing was said, yet another van would give you a red light every time you drove around a corner normally.

Yeah we’ve got all new Ford stuff recently and it’s pretty crazy how much it records, travel length of the pedals, gear changes etc.

 

[Brigsy]

Old cars ftw, cant log any of that.

Had similar telematics in fleet vans at least ten years ago. Used to see how many times i could set the beeper off with hard cornering.

 

[R3k1355]

What happens when you take it on a track day or AutoSolo or similar? Will you be unable to get insurance because the data has labelled you as a madman?

It's all good fun collecting so much data, but when they make assumptions about who was the one driving, or make assumptions that this driving was done on a public road, then the data becomes worthless.

 

[McGherkin]

What happens when you take it on a track day or AutoSolo or similar? Will you be unable to get insurance because the data has labelled you as a madman?

It's all good fun collecting so much data, but when they make assumptions about who was the one driving, or make assumptions that this driving was done on a public road, then the data becomes worthless.

A lot of telematics companies geofence permanent tracks tbf. But temporary venues, closed roads, car parks, still do, and there’s no guarantee that they geofence anything at all especially when you don’t even know it’s happening.

The manufacturers don’t necessarily care if the data is exact, just good enough that insurers will pay for it.

 

[R3k1355]

How's it going to work with second hand vehicles as well? If the new owner doesn't register themselves with the manufacturer, then all data is going to continue to be uploaded in the name of the original owner.

Next owner could be a shocking driver, but all that data will come through in your name.

Smells like future compensation cases to me.

 

[Gally]

Yeah we’ve got all new Ford stuff recently and it’s pretty crazy how much it records, travel length of the pedals, gear changes etc.

I've seen the Ford stuff daily and it's pretty scary although helpful to us as a repairer.

 

[Djw John]

As far as I know, I still hold the record for the fastest recorded speed out of a Waitrose van.

'If you werent leaving in 2 months, you would be fired'.....'Oh, Ill go now, shall I?'.....'Oh, no no, its fine. Im not impressed.'

In my defence, I was told to speed my deliveries up
🤷‍♂️

We need a number here

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

We need a number here

It was, hold on *gets out calculator*.........12 years ago....

I think they were limited to 55mph (not a legal thing, just Waitrose being Waitrose) and im 99% sure I managed a smidge over 70mph. 72 sticks in my mind?

'But theyre limited!' I hear you scream. Ah, well, come hither and sit down quietly....

Now, the limiter I hear you speak of is only for when the engine is running and in gear. Supposing you floored it right to the 55mph limit at the top of a large hill and clutched in, you can reach a greater speeds. This, however, will very much anger the management of Waitrose when they review the telematics of the vehicle and theres a large red warning symbol which pinpoints your exact speed along with location, time and date.

 

[Mr Squashie]

It was, hold on *gets out calculator*.........12 years ago....

I think they were limited to 55mph (not a legal thing, just Waitrose being Waitrose) and im 99% sure I managed a smidge over 70mph. 72 sticks in my mind?

'But theyre limited!' I hear you scream. Ah, well, come hither and sit down quietly....

Now, the limiter I hear you speak of is only for when the engine is running and in gear. Supposing you floored it right to the 55mph limit at the top of a large hill and clutched in, you can reach a greater speeds. This, however, will very much anger the management of Waitrose when they review the telematics of the vehicle and theres a large red warning symbol which pinpoints your exact speed along with location, time and date.


View attachment 1684375

"Must have been windy that day mate"

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

"Must have been windy that day mate"

Oh I wasnt going to make any excuses, I was proud.

Was it stupid? Yes.
Did I do something bad? Yes.
Did I care? No.

I HATED my manager there. Truly. The kind who did absolutely no work, yet claimed all the credit when we smashed it. A proper bone idle wanker. I knew I was leaving, he told me I was lazy and slow so...well....I proved him I might be lazy, but I wasnt slow 🤣

 

[_Tom]

My mate works for Tesla and at a recent meeting he was with the head of HR and said he was due to be sacking 14 people that day for gross misconduct due to speeding.

They track all cars obviously and 72mph is dismissal.

 

[R3k1355]

Sounds like employment tribunals are going to be pretty busy soon.

Everyone knows reported speeds are indicative and not perfectly accurate, it's not like the speedo has been professionally calibrated like the one in a police car, or the speed has been measured with a gun or camera used by the police.

 

[SharpyClio]

Sounds like employment tribunals are going to be pretty busy soon.

Everyone knows reported speeds are indicative and not perfectly accurate, it's not like the speedo has been professionally calibrated like the one in a police car, or the speed has been measured with a gun or camera used by the police.

This is a interesting point. If using GPS data thats even worse, I guess something between the two may give an average but its still not accurate really.

 

[R3k1355]

No to within 2mph, no chance in hell, of course if it's 72 in a 50 then fair enough.

There's been a fair few big American companies that have been totally ignorant to local employment law and found themselves with hefty legal bills because of it.

 

[alistairolsen]

It's a brave new world. Policing driving without regard for context, or correctness of data reporting. I think I've probably peaked at 2019 registration year and I can find no excitement for modern cars at all.

 

[dangerous dave]

Old cars ftw, cant log any of that.

Had similar telematics in fleet vans at least ten years ago. Used to see how many times i could set the beeper off with hard cornering.

EU plans to restrict repairs on older vehicles…

Robin Roberts (WheelsWithinWales) writes… With the internal combustion engine to be consigned to history in the not-too-distant future, recent information has emerged regarding the European U…

www.wheels-alive.co.uk

Cars have time bombing repairs on them, but us lot find a way to keep them on the road cheaper.

Here comes Europe to cut home/diy mechanics hands off...

Uneconomical mechanical repairs + age = scrap

 

[R3k1355]

Highly doubt that will ever see the light of day, it'll be vetoed long before.

Look at all the well worn piles of scrap driving around the less affluent countries, for them a 15 year old car is pretty damn new.

 

[The Psychedelic Socialist]

No to within 2mph, no chance in hell, of course if it's 72 in a 50 then fair enough.

There's been a fair few big American companies that have been totally ignorant to local employment law and found themselves with hefty legal bills because of it.

But it's not a criminal / police matter, so they could surely contractually set that threshold wherever they want?

Only requirement would presumably be to show that it reads consistently from one employee to the next (so it's not discriminatory), but it wouldn't necessarily even need to correspond to actual speeds. All you're really doing is contractually agreeing to keep that number below 72, or your employer has the right to fire you.

 

[R3k1355]

They're still firing someone for gross misconduct, and if they were to stand in front of a judge, explain that their ability to measure speed is not sufficiently accurate enough to actually demonstrate they were doing the speed claimed, it'll be a tough sell to describe that persons actions as gross misconduct.

Gross misconduct can include things like theft, physical violence, gross negligence or serious insubordination.

With gross misconduct, you can dismiss the employee immediately as long as you follow a fair procedure. You should investigate the incident and give the employee a chance to respond before deciding to dismiss them.

There is a qualifying timeframe which someone needs to have worked for a company in order to put in a claim of unfair dismissal in the first place, so perhaps that is more a factor

 

[The Psychedelic Socialist]

They're still firing someone for gross misconduct, and if they were to stand in front of a judge, explain that their ability to measure speed is not sufficiently accurate enough to actually demonstrate they were doing the speed claimed, it'll be a tough sell to describe that persons actions as gross misconduct.

You're probably right, gross misconduct would be a stretch.

Presumably the easiest thing would be to just take the speed directly from OBD. That way it's guaranteed (?) to match the speed shown on the dash and you could just say it doesn't matter what your actual speed was, we simply told you that you shouldn't let the number on the dash go above 72, and you did.

All of which just seems like wasted effort though. If we have cars that can log all of this data, and employers / insurers / police are going to use it, wouldn't it just be f**king easier to use that fancy software to enforce a limit to prevent the car from exceeding that speed in the first place.

 

[Willo40]

TIL :- Having an old V8 that doesn't record me, TIDL :- Not being able to afford to go fast enough to be sacked by Tesla.

 

[Shocker]

Oh I wasnt going to make any excuses, I was proud.

Was it stupid? Yes.
Did I do something bad? Yes.
Did I care? No.

I HATED my manager there. Truly. The kind who did absolutely no work, yet claimed all the credit when we smashed it. A proper bone idle wanker. I knew I was leaving, he told me I was lazy and slow so...well....I proved him I might be lazy, but I wasnt slow 🤣

I got the same
Manager cocked up a job and forgot to send someone
Phoned me and said could you go as fast as you can and get to Kirkcaldy from Glasgow before these other guys that needed us disappear
I did what he asked. And got 3 gross miss conducts for 112 in a old 80hp transit
1- speeding
2-endangering myself and other road users
3- bringing the company into disrepute as the van was sign written

Head office came up from down south but my manager told me he would sort me out if I didn’t rat him in
I was caught anyway so took all the blame
Got told I was to good a worker to sack but if I did anything wrong in the next six months I was out the door instantly
Got a speed limiter fitted to my van at 56mph
56 was more dangerous to me on the motorway than 112 so left the company very quickly
at work Once had a hired top of the range transit do 138 on the Speedo
Now that would have got me 6 months

 

[McGherkin]

140mph in a Ford Transit? 🤔

 

[jenic]

If Tesla don’t want their employees doing above 72 in their cars then why don’t they just software limit it?

Seems like they just want the excuse stored up for when they need a reason to fire people

 

[Racky]

Lincolnshire HGV dashcams will help catch reckless drivers - BBC News

One hundred dashcams will be fitted in a bid to cut number of people killed or seriously injured.

www.bbc.co.uk

Apparently they are putting cameras on HGVs now, so they can catch reckless drivers..wtf

Wondering how much are the companies being paid to have those cameras installed

 

[R3k1355]

HGV's have had cameras for ages, and they've been reporting dickhead drivers for ages too?

 

[Racky]

HGV's have had cameras for ages, and they've been reporting dickhead drivers for ages too?

Didn't know that.

Are the current one installed with government money also ?

 

[R3k1355]

Didn't know that.

Are the current one installed with government money also ?

Nah all private, some of the systems are top notch tho. Full coverage around the truck.
That way when some dickhead cuts them up, doesn't leave them enough room or something similar, they've got all the evidence for the insurance claim.

TBh, you're pretty silly to run commercial vehicles without any dashcam. Roads are busy, drivers are morons, crashes will happen.