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Clio Ownership; 6 Weeks in



  RB 182 Cup,E46 M3 CS
Re. Air con.. does it sometimes work? Is it always hot? There is a cog in the drivers footwell behind the left side trim which wears down and doesnt activate as such.

Needs a cable tie or jubilee clip around it.

It doesn't work. Got progressively less cold over a period of months until about mid June when it was not noticeably cold out of the vents (and it was noticeably hot outside)
 
  Listerine & Poledo
J I still think maybe it's a bit less economical than I was expecting (32mpg overall), maybe a fresh lambda sensor might improve that?
32MPG is entirely reasonable for a atmo 2.0l engine that can push 170hp.
Long runs with cruise control at 70 may bring you up towards 40mpg.


If you drive it with any kind of gutso, 30mpg is about right.
 
  RB 182 Cup,E46 M3 CS
32MPG is entirely reasonable for a atmo 2.0l engine that can push 170hp.
Long runs with cruise control at 70 may bring you up towards 40mpg.


If you drive it with any kind of gutso, 30mpg is about right.

I guess so, I suppose I was expecting the weight to make more of a difference (I believe the Cup is something like 1070kg, plus the lighter exhaust so maybe 1060kg). I don't drive it gently but equally I know how to drive economically when I'm not giving it 10/10 beans. For comparison the M3 has a long term average of 25mpg and that's from a 3.2 straight six with 338hp in a car that weighs over 1600kg!
 
  Listerine & Poledo
I guess so, I suppose I was expecting the weight to make more of a difference (I believe the Cup is something like 1070kg, plus the lighter exhaust so maybe 1060kg). I don't drive it gently but equally I know how to drive economically when I'm not giving it 10/10 beans. For comparison the M3 has a long term average of 25mpg and that's from a 3.2 straight six with 338hp in a car that weighs over 1600kg!

The weight from cup to standard makes as little difference in MPG as it does in real-world point-to-point performance.

For what it's worth, a stock MX5 1.8 does about 30mpg in real-world use, is lighter than a Clio cup and comes with 50hp less.

An Evo 3 with 500hp and no interior..... does 30mpg.
 
  RB 182 Cup,E46 M3 CS
The weight from cup to standard makes as little difference in MPG as it does in real-world point-to-point performance.

For what it's worth, a stock MX5 1.8 does about 30mpg in real-world use, is lighter than a Clio cup and comes with 50hp less.

An Evo 3 with 500hp and no interior..... does 30mpg.

I know the weight difference isn’t particularly noticeable, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a very light car by modern standards. Perhaps I was being a bit unfair in expecting a bit more.

Interestingly, my first car was a 1994 Vauxhall Astra, 1.4 with I think about 60hp. It averaged about 28mpg on a good day.
 
  BMW M4; S1000 RR
the F4R isn't a modern engine by any standards, and 25mpg to 32mpg is a 30% jump.

I'd suspect if you averaged 25mpg in an E46 M3 then you should be able to get more than 32 as a long term average from a 182.
 
  RB 182 Cup,E46 M3 CS
the F4R isn't a modern engine by any standards, and 25mpg to 32mpg is a 30% jump.

I'd suspect if you averaged 25mpg in an E46 M3 then you should be able to get more than 32 as a long term average from a 182.

Well that’s my point Jeff, I wonder if it could be an old lambda sensor maybe. How much to replace one?
 
  BMW M4; S1000 RR
Well that’s my point Jeff, I wonder if it could be an old lambda sensor maybe. How much to replace one?

No idea, I remember Fred suggesting a (non conclusive) test ages ago. That is, go get the car warmed up - join a motorway and set cruise to 60mph. Reset the MPG average and if you don't get 40mpg or there abouts after a few miles (to take out the factor of starting on a hill) then something's broken.
 

DaveL485

ClioSport Club Member
  21T, 9T, Meglio, V6
Natural? What lol

This is something I read somewhere a while ago, and saved it to a notepad file, so credit to whoever wrote it, not me. If I recall correctly this was written some 12 or 13 years ago.

>>>
By no means is the 5k kick the result of any mechanical/electronic chance within the engine system, whether that be mapping paremeters or valve timing.

I think to fully understand, a base understanding of the operating system of the vvt is needed. The vvt system employed on the clio is what we refer to as cam phasing, this is where the whole camshaft (inlet or exhaust or both) is advanced/retarded. This can be in a single step as it is in the clio (single stage 16 degree advance on the inlet), or variable. The camshaft is hollow and is used as a gallery to feed the front pulley (called a phaser) with oil pressure, this pressure simply acts on vanes inside to rotate it in a desired direction, and returned under mechanical pressure. The cam does not always carry oil pressure, but a vvt switch is used, and is basically a plunger activated by a 12v lowside switch which allows the passing of oil from the lifter galley to an area of the cam bearings with holes that can feed the inside of the cam, which then passes through to the nose of the cam and into the pulley (phaser).

Variable setups (like the 197) will use the same base components as what is used today, but instead of the vvt plunger being used as a switch, the same plunger has the ability to open and bypass oil to either side of the vanes in the phaser. By using a PWM signal, you can gain full control of the phaser to advance the cam in a near infinately variable curve vs rpm vs manifold pressure vs throttle angle etc.

Honda's Vtec system is a cam 'changing' system where the actual cam profile is changed in its entirety (hence the 3 lobes per cylinder), the actual 'timing' of the primary lobe remains the same at all times. And now with I-Vtec and VVTL-i the benefits of both phasing and changing is being used at the same time to build some monster VE (volumetric efficiency) curves.

Anyway, in the clio the cam sits in its dephased state until the required parameters are met. This is above 1450rpm and 800mb manifold pressure. When it is required though, the cam is phased and the cam timing effectively advances 16 degrees, at 6800rpm it is dephased again and power drops off like a stone. No official reason, but my thoughts are that they do it so you guys shift up once there is a loss of acceleration. The reason for that is because the stock pistons just fall apart with prolongned high rpm use.

The 5k kick is the result of a few natural phenomenons within the engine. At 5000-ish rpm VE suddenly reaches a higher %'age and the resultant torque increase gives you that wahey feeling. VE increases due to the cam coming 'on'. This term has nothing to do with VVT and is quite an old term, whereby the reference is to the rpm region that particualr engine/cam combo requires to process the valve timing events efficiently.

VE refers to volumetric efficiency, or the %'age of the cylinder that you can fill with fresh charge. For a 2ltr, thats 500cc per cylinder. If you can only fill that cylinder with 430cc's at peak efficiency (normally at peak torque point) thats 86% VE. The higher the VE on any engine, the higher the torque output at that specific RPM, and all engine tuning revolves around increasing or rather sustaining a good VE for as long as possible, and upto as high an rpm as possible.

Anyway, back on track. The clio with its advanced cam timing (phased) operates with an overlap value that is larger than when it is dephased (infact it has no overlap when depahsed). This overlap is part of cam design basics, and larger overlap periods are used to help generate higher VE's via scavenging and inertia ramming. At 5000 rpm the natural effects of the port velocity and pulse tuning all reach a level where they start to actively enhance the torque production with the valve timing it is running. Put in a wilder cam and it will push the 'kick' higher up if nothing else changes, but lower rpm efficiency will loose out, and peak power will be pushed up the rpm scale, along with a higher peak bhp figure. To an extent, there will be a point where you can go wilder on the cam and just loose out everywhere as the engine system as a whole does not work with the cam profile you are running.

Basically the 5k kick is the result of natural phenomenons within the engine, primarily port velocities and pulse tuning harmonics.
 


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