535d / t5 caravelle
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Cold start
- Thread starter towlie
- Start date
what do you think warms up first? oil being thrown about an engine next to thousands of explosions a second and bits of metal rubbing .000000001mm (exaduration) away from each other or coolant thats got a limited flow until 'x' degrees when the thermostat opens?
id say its a safe bet to say that once your coolant is up to temp (indicated by the guage on the dash) your oil is near enough at a decent operating temperature
I thought this too!!change your car in your profile asap
I always thought that oil takes longer to get up to its proper working temp than the coolant does.
it probably is to get it to optimum working temperature but we are talking about wear due to the oil being too viscous when cold. the warmer it gets the easier it flows through the engine causing less wear. so i would imagine by the time it takes your coolant to get up to temperature the oil is already in a temperature range where its protecting the engine sufficiently to give it some beans
Maybe so but it would still be better for your engine if the oil is at it's optimum oil temperature rather than 'warm enough' before giving it some beans.
could say the same about it being too warm?
but i should imagine that the oil warms up quicker than the coolant due to its application
EDIT: seems i was wrong, coolant does reach operating temps before oil does, id still hazard a guess that at that temperature that there isnt any excessive wear going on
but i should imagine that the oil warms up quicker than the coolant due to its application
EDIT: seems i was wrong, coolant does reach operating temps before oil does, id still hazard a guess that at that temperature that there isnt any excessive wear going on
Last edited:
MarkCup
ClioSport Club Member
The ECU doesn't think so...the rev limiter is still low for a period AFTER the coolant has reached normal operating temperature.
The higher rev limit is only enabled once the oil's reached it's prime.
The higher rev limit is only enabled once the oil's reached it's prime.
well this is me wrong then... just found this link...
Keep Your Engine Alive: The Importance of Oil Temperature
Posted on May 20, 2011 by Nathan
One of the things you will find if you have a oil pressure or temperature gauge is that regardless of the fact that oil is running through your engine and cooling it just like the coolant – it takes on and loses heat differently than coolant.
Oil temperature is probably the most important thing to know, specifically for those of us who are pushing our cars hard. Free reving (or worse – racing) on an engine that has not fully reached it’s oil operating temperature is extremely dangerous. But don’t think that the coolant gauge will tell you this information – it won’t.
As a general rule of thumb, after the car is warmed up, oil tends to be a few degrees warmer than the coolant (usually 10-15 degrees Fahrenheit).
However, it takes much longer for oil to come up to temperature than coolant. When you start your car in the morning, most of us are wise enough to not romp on the car until the coolant gauge is up to operating temperature. This is certainly better than romping on it cold, but it’s still not quite ideal.
You see, the oil, especially in colder ambient temperatures, takes several times longer to come up to temperature.
Oil will not get to complete operating temperature easily by simply idling, it requires driving around and putting SOME load on the engine. I see people in the pits at races all the time reving their motors to ‘warm the engine up’. It won’t do any good and is only putting premature wear on the car.
The best way to get a car’s oil temperature up is to simply drive it around for a few minutes. Ideally you’d have an oil temperature gauge to tell you when it’s at operating temperature – and oil pressure gauge (lower pressure) would also tell you this information.
What’s the danger of running an engine cold?
Total engine failure.
Well, that may seem a little extreme, as certainly all of us have run a engine that was cold, hard. We probably even got away with it due to the amazingly good engine design we have today. However, it’s an extremely risky thing to do and can easily result in catastrophic engine failure. ESPECIALLY in highly tuned, built engines.
If the engine is way too cold (ie, the coolant hasn’t even come up to temps), it’s not making its ideal power either. VTEC engines actually do not engage VTEC unless the coolant is up to temperature, for example – this is true of many other variable valve timing technologies as well. Think of it as Honda trying to save you from yourself.
In all engines, the engine’s clearances are significantly tighter, creating extreme amounts of stress on the engine’s internals and the piston rings will not have properly sealed with oil temps too low.
In short – it’s really bad for your engine to run it hard until it’s OIL is completely warmed up. Coolant temperature is a false indicator.
Practical Advice
So without going out and buying an oil gauge and all that, what’s the big take away from this discussion?
When you first start running your car for the day, make sure to keep the revs low and take it easy for at very least the first 5 or so minutes of driving, longer in extreme cold temperatures. Most importantly, and least obviously – don’t trust your coolant gauge to be a good indicator that your engine is fully warmed up.
In cars with oil coolers that utilize the coolant to cool (used on many imports, sandwhiched between the oil filter and the block), the oil temp will actually come up with the coolant as an added bonus to keeping oil temperatures cooler under high loads.
If you’re putting gauges in your car, you might also consider an oil temp or pressure gauge as it can be a real tool in assessing the load on your engine and keep you aware of situations that might harm the reliability of your engine. This is especially true in turbocharged engines or on high speed circuits as engine oil can actually cook if it gets too hot, ruining it’s lubricating properties and resulting in – yep, engine failure.
Remember, an engine fully warmed up but not heat soaked creates optimum power. In the real world, this means when you’re driving down the highway and the engine is plenty warm and the airflow through the engine bay is taking warm air from the engine bay out through the bottom of the car. Never try to get a better time at the drag strip by running with cold engine oil and never try to warm a car up by reving the engine.
Keeping this advice in mind will certainly keep your engine alive much longer and prevent you from having a really bad day.
Keep Your Engine Alive: The Importance of Oil Temperature
Posted on May 20, 2011 by Nathan
Oil temperature is probably the most important thing to know, specifically for those of us who are pushing our cars hard. Free reving (or worse – racing) on an engine that has not fully reached it’s oil operating temperature is extremely dangerous. But don’t think that the coolant gauge will tell you this information – it won’t.
As a general rule of thumb, after the car is warmed up, oil tends to be a few degrees warmer than the coolant (usually 10-15 degrees Fahrenheit).
However, it takes much longer for oil to come up to temperature than coolant. When you start your car in the morning, most of us are wise enough to not romp on the car until the coolant gauge is up to operating temperature. This is certainly better than romping on it cold, but it’s still not quite ideal.
You see, the oil, especially in colder ambient temperatures, takes several times longer to come up to temperature.
Oil will not get to complete operating temperature easily by simply idling, it requires driving around and putting SOME load on the engine. I see people in the pits at races all the time reving their motors to ‘warm the engine up’. It won’t do any good and is only putting premature wear on the car.
The best way to get a car’s oil temperature up is to simply drive it around for a few minutes. Ideally you’d have an oil temperature gauge to tell you when it’s at operating temperature – and oil pressure gauge (lower pressure) would also tell you this information.
What’s the danger of running an engine cold?
Total engine failure.
Well, that may seem a little extreme, as certainly all of us have run a engine that was cold, hard. We probably even got away with it due to the amazingly good engine design we have today. However, it’s an extremely risky thing to do and can easily result in catastrophic engine failure. ESPECIALLY in highly tuned, built engines.
If the engine is way too cold (ie, the coolant hasn’t even come up to temps), it’s not making its ideal power either. VTEC engines actually do not engage VTEC unless the coolant is up to temperature, for example – this is true of many other variable valve timing technologies as well. Think of it as Honda trying to save you from yourself.
In all engines, the engine’s clearances are significantly tighter, creating extreme amounts of stress on the engine’s internals and the piston rings will not have properly sealed with oil temps too low.
In short – it’s really bad for your engine to run it hard until it’s OIL is completely warmed up. Coolant temperature is a false indicator.
Practical Advice
So without going out and buying an oil gauge and all that, what’s the big take away from this discussion?
When you first start running your car for the day, make sure to keep the revs low and take it easy for at very least the first 5 or so minutes of driving, longer in extreme cold temperatures. Most importantly, and least obviously – don’t trust your coolant gauge to be a good indicator that your engine is fully warmed up.
In cars with oil coolers that utilize the coolant to cool (used on many imports, sandwhiched between the oil filter and the block), the oil temp will actually come up with the coolant as an added bonus to keeping oil temperatures cooler under high loads.
If you’re putting gauges in your car, you might also consider an oil temp or pressure gauge as it can be a real tool in assessing the load on your engine and keep you aware of situations that might harm the reliability of your engine. This is especially true in turbocharged engines or on high speed circuits as engine oil can actually cook if it gets too hot, ruining it’s lubricating properties and resulting in – yep, engine failure.
Remember, an engine fully warmed up but not heat soaked creates optimum power. In the real world, this means when you’re driving down the highway and the engine is plenty warm and the airflow through the engine bay is taking warm air from the engine bay out through the bottom of the car. Never try to get a better time at the drag strip by running with cold engine oil and never try to warm a car up by reving the engine.
Keeping this advice in mind will certainly keep your engine alive much longer and prevent you from having a really bad day.
lol i never doubted you
i always thought oil would warm up quicker tho, being as its in the engine not around it.and i still think that by the time your coolant is up top temp your not cauing excess wear on the engine because the oil isnt FULLY up to temp
I normally idle until the coolant temp needle comes off the rest, then drive gently until the needle reaches somewhere around the 2/5ths mark.
MarkCup
ClioSport Club Member
davo172
ClioSport Club Member
TCR'd 172
This is wrong !
oil takes longer than water to warm up.
On new vws there is oil temp too when your water just reached 90 oil is about 50 - 60 deg on normal driving,
read the link i posted in post #49
also a point i was trying to make is you wouldnt be cauing excess wear with oil at about 50-60 deg compared to stone cold oil (which is what this topic is about)
Just the way I've always done it. I'm not idling for long, just gives time for the oil to get around the engine.
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