DA and Holograms

[sparklesTHEpony]

This is doing my titties in royaly!
Especially as I own BG.

Right I've spent the last 2 years or so learning a lot about detailing. Like a lot, spent over £400+ on gear and products, so I'm not a total noob, more of a weekend warrior with above average knowledge, id like to think that anyway.

But Holograms are my nemesis! I *think* I may know what I'm doing wrong by watching junkmans videos on it. But can't seem to google anyrhing to do with Holograms and DAs.

My cars almost swirl free (never 100% for me on black, more like 99%) so I no longer need to use orange hex with M105.

Using a regular DA, White pad with either M205 or more recently Menzerna 3in1 (love it)

Steps are:

- Prep paint.
- Prime pad (3 pea spots)
- DA on car, speed 2/3 slowly work polish into work area and pad.
- now I speed up to 5 and work in a cross hatch pattern (across all the way then up and down all the way through the area)
- I do this 2/3 times
- slow down back to 3, and carry on for 1 more pass (crosshatch)
- IPA wipe down excess.

But I'm still riddled with twatting Holograms!

After watching junkmans videos I think I'm going wrong by 2 reasons;

1: I applied ALOT of pressure in the speed 5 passes.
&
2: he mentions to keep on doing passes until the polish is more of an oily shiny residue on the car (worked in fully) then IPA wipe down. I've only been doing 3 or so passes so unsure whether it was oily and ready to take off.

Apart from the above 2 mistakes anything else anyone wants to add to my steps?

 

[JamesBryan]

Too coarse of a polish/pad or contaminated/clogged pad.

 

[JamesBryan]

And it takes more than 3 pea sized spots of polish to prime a pad.

Put more on and work it in to the pad by hand first.

 

[sparklesTHEpony]

I've always thoroughly cleaned the pad after each use so I'm pretty sure it's not clogged up.

So better application of the polish and working it in more until it's clear/oily?

M205 with a white hex wouldn't be coarse enough on Renault paint? Surely if everything is done correctly this combo should remove the Holograms (I'm not doing it correctly haha)

 

[JamesBryan]

I think you need to work it longer and with less pressure on the machine.

 

[sparklesTHEpony]

Yeah that's where i think I'm going wrong.

Are both of those reasons to cause Holograms?

Not working in enough and too much pressure? Although pressure shouldn't really be a thing with DAs? or have a just made that statement up hahah, I know pressure is a thing with rotarys for sure.

 

[JamesBryan]

Shouldnt really be getting holograms with a DA unless you're only doing really quick passes and not breaking polish down at all.

I'd try doubling your passes, so 6 passes. That should enough for a finishing polish.

 

[Daniel]

Black Gold is a f**king nightmare. I don't care what anyone else says or who they are in the Valeting game, it's a f**king nightmare. It's soft as s**t and can create tears in my eyes when I work on it! Lol

Remember @Ant1 and his R26R??

I agree with James though. You're not spending enough time with the polish and not allowing it to do its thing. By going too fast you're clearing up the defects but not spending enough time to far far enough in to get rid of the holograms.
I use Scholl S40 on a firm (ish) black pad as a hologram remover. I find it bloody brilliant.
But then I'm not patient enough to use a polish properly like most would.

This was the last one I did. Gteqniq P1, followed by Scholl S40. (Only direct sunlight for my shots, no defect hiding lights!!)

 

[sparklesTHEpony]

Top advice guys & awesome work Daniel!

I'll put it to use when I'm off work, here's hoping I can finally look at BG and be happy with the paint :sweat:

 

[Mr Plums]

Could slowing the da down to 3 cause holograms?

Ive never had them, but i work the paint/polish enough so when i remove the da paint doesn't flick everywhere.

 

[aucky]

Try spending more time on 3 after you've done your main cutting.

Also, try less polish but with adding some water/qd sprayed onto the pad to get enough spread.

I sometimes add a little finishing polish to the pad (along with the 'main' compound) to help with the back end of a polishing period too.

 

[sparklesTHEpony]

Hm so I should definitely still keep the slowed down to 3 part then? even after I've done enough passes on speed 5 for the polish finally to become oily/clear/shiny ?

Junkman never slowed down on his video. Just kept going on a small area until the polish was ready to remove.

 

[Knuckles]

- DA on car, speed 2/3 slowly work polish into work area and pad.
- now I speed up to 5 and work in a cross hatch pattern (across all the way then up and down all the way through the area)
- I do this 2/3 times
- slow down back to 3, and carry on for 1 more pass (crosshatch)

That sounds to me like you're working unbroken down polish.

I spread the polish on speed 2.5

Work the polish on speed 3.5/4 until it goes translucent

Polish the panel on speed 5/6 (this is where holograms are made, you're cutting out the original defect but inflicting your own)

Then polish off on speed 3.

So

2.5 Spread
3.5 Work
5/6 Cut
3 Buff

That's what I've found to work best and consistently.

Have you marked your backing plate with anything? If not, do that so you can keep the pad spinning at the same rate on each speed. Lower speeds need less pressure, higher speeds need more.

 

[sparklesTHEpony]

Nice knuckles thanks for the help!

So work the polish until it's clear/oily

Then speed up until it's gone or? What's the indication that i need to stop cutting?

Then do a couple more passes back on 3 with minimal pressure

All with the same white hex pad?

Sorry for all the questions haha

 

[Knuckles]

Nice knuckles thanks for the help!

So work the polish until it's clear/oily

Then speed up until it's gone or? What's the indication that i need to stop cutting?

Then do a couple more passes back on 3 with minimal pressure

All with the same white hex pad?

Sorry for all the questions haha

Yeah work it until its translucent, then up the speed to do the actual cutting. Then down to a low speed to buff.

With regards to pressure, saying "a little less and a little more" will be inaccurate and you'll struggle to get a consistent finish.

Draw one thick black line on the backing plate so it's visible when you're using the polisher. Keep that spinning at the same rate throughout the working, cutting and buffing parts of the polishing. That way, you'll have the right amount of pressure for the machine.

If you apply too much, the clutch will kick in and you'll see the line wiggle from side to side. The revolving of the pad will stop and you'll just see the oscilating.

I don't know an indication to stop cutting, I normally just do a couple of horizontal and a couple of vertical passes on each setting. If the mark isn't gone when I'm done I start again

And I don't know the pads your using but the same goes for any pad. I've not got holograms with a cutting, polishing or finishing pads with the above technique

 

[Bear Head]

The issue is you're using polishes with micro abrasives.

You're not fully working the Polish enough.

What's happening is, you're not fully working the abrasives enough to break them down.

For example, the Polish can deal with quite deep scratches. But once you break it down a bit it'll polish ut the scratches you've just made. And again until it's super fine and that's when you're finished.

Just work it a bit longer. It's like putting a sugar lump in some tea and not letting it fully break down and dissolve.

It's the finial stages imo that aren't getting finished. So I'd be going for passes on a lower setting after you've been up quite high and really finishing the Polish off. Maybe the pad and Polish combo isn't great either. Cant remember what you said you'd used now haha

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

 

[andy_coops]

I'd hazard a guess that pressure on the machine coupled with not working the polish for long enough is what's giving you grief.

 

[Christopher]

The issue is you're using polishes with micro abrasives.

You're not fully working the Polish enough.

What's happening is, you're not fully working the abrasives enough to break them down.

For example, the Polish can deal with quite deep scratches. But once you break it down a bit it'll polish ut the scratches you've just made. And again until it's super fine and that's when you're finished.

Just work it a bit longer. It's like putting a sugar lump in some tea and not letting it fully break down and dissolve.

It's the finial stages imo that aren't getting finished. So I'd be going for passes on a lower setting after you've been up quite high and really finishing the Polish off. Maybe the pad and Polish combo isn't great either. Cant remember what you said you'd used now haha

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

This. Word for word. The polishes you're working with and being cut short before they reduce down to a refining polish. Hence the holograms.