Diesel Hothatches! The future?? Top Gear Yesterday

[Brock]

OK lads!

I must say, I have never been a diesel fan, actually very much on the Jeremy Clarkson kind of reasoning, I hate diesels but then again I found myself buying one! With the cost of diesel constantly going up and nearly the same price as petrol, the more I wish I had bought a petrol powered clio.

Diesels are definitely not what they were in the past! For a 65bhp unit I own, its pretty quick. Worst is when you come to a stand still and that horrible sound from the engine becomes clear.

In yesterdays Top gear program, Jeremy tested a Skoda Fabia diesel hothatch vs Mini Cooper (S? not sure), but the point is that the skoda prooved to have much more power and worse breaking than the cooper.
This raises the question, is the Clio dci 100bhp hot hatch unit that much slower than the 2.0 sport?? Is it as much fun?

Anybody own a 100bhp dci??? or raced against one?

Anyway, any comments............................................................

Brock

 

[Dan Page]

im pretty certain that a 2.0 will piss over the top spec diesel in every factor but would be interesting to be proved wrong....

 

[Andi-B]

In yesterdays Top gear program, Jeremy tested a Skoda Fabia diesel hothatch vs Mini Cooper (S? not sure), but the point is that the skoda prooved to have much more power and worse breaking than the cooper.
This raises the question, is the Clio dci 100bhp hot hatch unit that much slower than the 2.0 sport?? Is it as much fun?

If its the one round the track they have its the 1.6 cooper they raced it against, and if I remember correctly (coz its been on before) the Fabia pulled away on the straight! lol

I dont know much about the clio DCi but if memory serves and I'm welcome to people telling me if I'm wrong here ... but doesnt the DCi have the same torque as the Clio 172/182??? yeah its not as fast but the torques the same I think..

Does that help at all ??

 

[Brock]

Yeah it helps but it would be interesting to see like Dan said if there is a really big difference between the two. I have know doubt that the 2.0 will be first past the line but by how much!???????

Now we need to find a 100bhp owner .......................anyone?...................

Brock

 

[TomS]

Diesels are superb these days

I'd not have any doubts about having one - quite like the ibiza cupra diesel, low 7's to 60 is quick.

 

[y0z2a]

I had a Y - plate 110 BHP Clio Si DTi

it was very very quick from standard. I superchipped it and it ran at about 130 bhp.

was excellent and was as quick as a fiesta zetec-s if not slightly quicker.

/y0z

 

[Brock]

Yoz2a, have you got some pics or video clips???

By the way did you fit on a new exhaust as im thinking about it and was wondering whether it sounds good in a diesel????

Brock

 

[Steve2004]

I had a Y - plate 110 BHP Clio Si DTi

it was very very quick from standard. I superchipped it and it ran at about 130 bhp.

was excellent and was as quick as a fiesta zetec-s if not slightly quicker.

/y0z

Thats disappointing, was expecting it to be quicker than that, zetec-s's aren't fast

 

[Padso]

Exhaust systems on the DCis are not very loud because the turbo helps to silence the exhaust.

I ran a dual exit system on my clio DCi with no real back boxes as such but opted instead for tailpipes with small beffles inside. The car was no louder than standard and didnt seem as laggy between gear changes.

www.jonexhausts.co.uk

Click on Cars on the left hand side and you will see some build pics of my car.

 

[Brock]

Paddymcc, could you post some better pictures as you cannot open up the images from the site. What dci have you got and have you been up against a 2.0 sport??

Brock

 

[Pete]

I'm considering going diesel for my next car, but it depends on what's about in a couple of months. The cost of diesel may be getting close to that of petrol however you'll never get the same mileage for the money.

 

[Mack]

This video impressed me quite a lot, not a hot hatch, but a bmw 330CD.

http://www.bmw-drivers.de/msm/video/100.mpg

I would hazard a quess at saying, if deisels didnt make the noise they did, we would all have one, I know I would.

 

[y0z2a]

erm, no video, only one or two pictures.

the zetec s is pretty nippy in a straight line?

the power was great for over taking more than anything, you just booted it in 3rd or 4th, and it was great.

/y0z

/y0z

 

[Mack]

If you do right click - save target as on the link you can watch it.

 

[miketheman2k]

Both cars have 148 lb/ft, the diesel obviously reaches that peak sooner. Ignoring the chassis setups, if the 182 wasn't allowed to go above 5krpm, they would be very similar in a straight line.

Above 5krpm it would be completely different.

 

[Padso]

Paddymcc, could you post some better pictures as you cannot open up the images from the site. What dci have you got and have you been up against a 2.0 sport??

Brock

She was a DCi 65 and wouldnt stand a chance against a 2.0 renault sport.

Quite nippy for all that it was though but the best thing was the MPG. I had her chipped as well and would get around 60-70mpg on motorway driving. and 45-50mpg driving around the town.

I also had a custom made induction system that helped a little.

 

[Brock]

Cool mate!

I have the same car! i was thinking of putting in a tuning box! Is it worth it and did you feel a big difference???? Have you got some pictures??????

Thanks

Brock

 

[Padso]

The tuning box helped with MPG i didnt really feel the car was that much faster.

 

[Padso]

Sorry about the lexus lights lol

 

[Brock]

Quite a lot of KIT you got there mate!! Sure it cost ya quite a bit!!!!!!

How much more bhp did you get out of the tuning box??

 

[Brock]

oh, by the way do you have a pic of your engine bay??? Did you have to remove the cover in order to fit the induction kit??? Because I had to remove mine.

Brock

 

[Padso]

Quite a lot of KIT you got there mate!! Sure it cost ya quite a bit!!!!!!

How much more bhp did you get out of the tuning box??

I imported the kit from PAM in France to Ireland so it cost me a fortune.

oh, by the way do you have a pic of your engine bay??? Did you have to remove the cover in order to fit the induction kit??? Because I had to remove mine.

Brock

Yeah the engine cover was removed to fit the IK as it ran down to the front grill beside the alternator.

I wouldnt reccomend the tuning box I had as i basically got no increase in power. May be there are other better alternatives out there?

The best increase in power for the 65hp engines would be to fit the injectors, intercooler, ECU and all neccessary pipework from the DCi 80 and then see if you have it remapped or chipped.

Theres a member on the forums here from Portugal with a hybrid turbo and FMIC setup on a DCi 80.

 

[James.]

Top gear yesturday? Dint think it had started again yet. :S

 

[theduck]

erm, no video, only one or two pictures.

the zetec s is pretty nippy in a straight line?

the power was great for over taking more than anything, you just booted it in 3rd or 4th, and it was great.

/y0z

/y0z

zetec-s = 100bhp, not bad, but only as fast as a 1.6 clio

 

[matty w]

I know the diesels are getting quieter and quicker but at the cost of economy,a freind at work has got a 2litre stdi focus cmax and the best mpg he can get is 40 so not really much better than a 172 which can manage about 32-34

 

[miketheman2k]

I got 40.4mpg on a recent motorway run (unmodded 182).

 

[matty w]

^exactley he does a lot of motorway driving and reckons he still only getting 40mpg,i know a lot of people will completely disagree with me here but i dont see the point in modifying a diesel engine didnt you buy it to be good on fuel?

 

[Brock]

Thats the thing, I bought a diesel for economy but then again I miss my sporty little Cinquecento

I loved this car, had a great sound and modified the engine slightly.

I try and get that petrol feel, however without success! I have to agree that its not worth tuning diesels, just buy the petrol instead. Tuning diesels always seems to involve to many mods. Then again, the option would be to buy somethin like a clio 100bhp, dependin on the price!

My clio today:

This pic is old now. I recently sprayed the mirrors and door handles metallic black and the dci badge matt silver!!

Brock

 

[Chris n nic]

Different car I know but I had one of the company cars the other week (Mazda 6 TD) which has 130/140 bhp iirc. Nic was infront of me in the cup just about to jon the sliproad. I kept up but she had left it in 3rd when she could have dropped it if she wanted...I could hear the exhaust pitch change as she came on cam and the difference really showed then...I may have well have been in neutral lol

Chris

 

[Dink]

zetec-s = 100bhp, not bad, but only as fast as a 1.6 clio

none of the zetec-s' ive come across are as fast

 

[edde]

Diesel hot hatches are doing well there are some reasonale ones out there however the advantages are sometimes quite limited eg servicing a diesel has always been good you don't need to chnage the oil as often the new ibiza tdi's are the same 12k servicing as there petrols and there the same price to service. MPG is there real advantage 55mpg VS 35 for a equivalnt petrol and when you do a load of miles the savings add up to more than the price the car cost you extra plus insurance is often less and the cars worth more at the end when you come to sell it.
Also a 150hp diesel Vs 150Hp petrol is very interesting on track days the disel should be quicker as it has way more power at low revs pulling out of bends than the petrol. The Volkwagen TDi'r are proving there ability at Volkwagen racing day against there petrol counterparts.
I've spoke to a few Renault sport drivers about diesel and many of them agree a diesel isn't to be slagged off as they do hold a lot of advantages for me. I don't think I'd ever buy a petrol powered RS clio over a diesel powered RS even if it had less power the savings just are to great to ignore.
After driving 172/182s though against my dci 65 there no competetion but then again its only 65hp there a huge handling and HP deficiency still its not to bad when you think what it is. After taking people out in the car on track though some see the advanatges of the diesel engine over a petrol.
Don't get me wrong a petrol engine is greeat but for day to day driving a diesel if just for its power delivery low down is the car I'd go for.
A diesel should be about 50% more economical than a petrol equivalent and from all the evidence I've seen its true I get about 35mpg out fo a 1.2/2.0 Clios and 55mpg in the dci but I do drive quite hard.
Forget changing the injectors though its to mcuh hastle best chnage the whole engine for a 100or 105 or a 1.9 etc. A FMIC IK and exhaust along with a remap will see about 110~110hp froma 65hp clio and more torque than the cluctch can handle so it would have to be tuned down or a better clutch (dci 80) fitted. The exhaust won't make any more power but will let the turbo spin up quicker and to a faster RPM which a remap will allow to run higher boost and more diesel injection hence more power.
The 65hp dci has about 165NM torque
The 80 dci has about 180NM torque
The 100 dci has about 210 NM torque
The 172/182's have 200NM torque.

 

[Brock]

Thanks Edde for that!! Agree with ya all the way!

Have you done any mods to your car? Do you intend to? and do you have any pics mate?

Cheers!!

 

[Nebdingo]

The Skoda Fabia VRs is a good diesel hot hatch... mate had one from new, had it chipped and its a little corker! pulling 185 gee gee's!

took it santa pod.... 0-60 came in 7.5 secs! not bad for something that only cracks up 4500RPM! (ish)

 

[The Hoff]

Meggerman showed me some videos of a Fabia vRS diesel fitted with Jabbasport, pretty sure if you PM him he will gladly host the videos, seems pretty rapid.

 

[edde]

Thanks Edde for that!! Agree with ya all the way!

Have you done any mods to your car? Do you intend to? and do you have any pics mate?

Cheers!!

I've got some pics when it had coilovers in the galery I think plus some at the ring I think. Its back to standard now though.

I was just writing you a PM. I'd recomend changing the oil in your car I drive my car hard on track days etc and you can tell the difference in new oil. It only takes 15 minutes to do and its £15 or so for the Renault oil (its a good spec and since its standard no one can complain).

I've not tunned the engine as I have a Williams for most track days and I don't need any higher insurance premiums. Also gains are so minimal. I might stick a 172 engine etc in next year or so when its on 72k as its much better value even if I loose the mpg.

Also the cars tested to its limits on track days/nurgburg as it is any tunning might just be the final thing plus tuning usually entails opening the injection window which means a bit higher EGT temps which might not to to bad in fast road use the extra push from track use might be to much though.
Its still under warently I don't want to risk them not fixing it. Plus its more interesting telling people its stock when its overtaken them on the track.
The only modification if you can call it that are 195/55/15 contis instead of 185/55 as there cheaper.

 

[Dave.]

Diesels r def the way forward, i tuned a 206 HDI from the standad 90 Bhp to 180 bhp for around 3k. Torque was through the roof!! It relativly easy to tune a diesel, bigger intercooler, hybrid turbo, up the boost to 26psi, get the needles changed in the injectors, tuning box to raise fuel rail pressure, nice straight thru exhaust to minimise lag brought on by intercooler, then get it mapped. Mapping can be a problem on cars with electronic fuel pumps as they are a b*****d to map. Original map for my car was in excess of £500!

 

[wozzaa]

oohh cinq so much fun seen a few people running punto GT lumps in them would eat clio 172s for breakfast and still be hungry. Admiitedly for the same price it cost them to make you could probalby get a bloody amazing clio and mod it to be just as good. But it wouldnt be quite as funny when your passing cars in a cinq with 180+ BHP.

But diesels are great everyday cars but i dunno about for a hothatch. The low down torque though makes a massive difference. Which is why they can be great you drop down into 4th and even a 182cup wouldnt be able to manage the pace in that gear would need to drop down to 3rd due to the torque the diesel has. However the only problem is power range the range is quite weak in a diesel where the diesel runs out the petrol is usually just getting started. Althoug in 4th gear i would expect a lower powered diesel in normal driving conditions not ragging it to beat a more powerful petrol engine due to the torque. And this has been seen in most cars. On manufacturers figures they usually put lower powered diesels as being quicker in 4th gear 30-50 and 50-70 faster than the much more powerful petrol engines. however drop them both into 3rd and its by by diesel car.

Diesel is a more efficient fuel just the engines due to being heavier and lower reving arent quite as capable in the top end. Hence where they lack the oomp the petrol engines do. Diesel produces more energy per litre than petrol though. And is a better source of energy. But would i pick a diesel over a petrol not likely.

But they do come into there own once remapped usually. Typically a diesel gets a 35-40% increase in power from a remap where as a petrol gets around 10% so with a clio 100 going up to around 140bhp it would be able to keep up with 182's etc till around 55 then the fact the 182 would have more horses would leave it for dead. everyday driving the diesel would be quicker though due to the massive amounts of low down torque.

And if you wanted to remap a 206 i can recommend angel tuning. They woulda done it for under £300 an come to your house to do it and many people swear by them. I know my new car is goign to them for a remap should be seeing 120ish from the usualy 110 its only a 1.6 16v petrol engine though so not expecting huge amounts of diffrence. Just a little more drivabilty.

 

[Brock]

Wozzaa, unfortunately i dont live in England mate so unless they fly to Malta I wont get it under £300. We have very good mechanics here but I hate playin around with ECU's and stuff!!!!!

Ok, so if I had to remp my 65bhp clio, what would I be able to take it up to and will the life of the engine drop drastically or not???

Dave, howcome you got rid of your HDI, was it old or did it give you problems, or simply you had to have the Clio sport

Trust me, with the prices you buy cars in the UK, I would definitely have a 2.0 Sport! I bought mine the same price you buy a new 2.0 sport in the UK!!!!!! Very Piss*n off!!!, plus second hand clio's in the uk are everywhere! (I would have to pay £6.5K in import duty!!!!)

So my reasonin is, keep the clio diesel for the time bein.....save up more and just buy the sport in 2 years time.......or fly to the UK, live and work for 3 years, meet up with all you Clio fans and buy a second hand clio sport upon arrival

Dave, got any HDI video?????

Cheers Brock

 

[wozzaa]

Thats fair enough.

I cant get insurance on a clio 182 im finding it hard to get insurance full stop at the moment from a lot of companies due to where i live the car can not be parked at my own address during the night and during the day its sat in a public car park.

Live in an apartment block on the 6th floor so unless my car can fly outside the window of the lounge im a bit stuck. So either they say no or they give me some stupid price on insurance due to the car being at high risk day and night.

But hey id still rather live here and put up with the high cost of the car than live anywhere else.

 

[Boydie]

i have the dci 80 with a t-box and producing 98.2 bhp with 180 torque its good i have to say but would be quicker in a standard clio as i have mine fully moded

and as said before deisels are becoming great!

my next car will be derv again in the form of a seat ibiza cupra tdi...

160bhp standard, brembos etc...

add a down pipe to the turbo, FMIC, exhaust and remap... hello 220bh and a torque figure through the roof!

imo i wouldnt tune it to that peak as i have been told the ibiza's are wasted past 200bhp and the torque steer would be terrible :S