FAO RICH-D, viper rr day

[pete172]

did you get your car done on the rolling road today.

what was the outcome? was it the viper or are you still the torque master

pete

 

[rt172]

Rich didnt run, but his Viper did. In short - it works.

Smooths out the torque accross the rev range, gives a bit of extra power through the revs, and finally, gave 1bhp top end! Before and after graphs to follow...

 

[Rich-D]

Yup, as Rhys said the peak gains aint massive, but the mid range really seems to benefit and smooths out the curves too...

Wasnt an ideal setup though as we bodged the Viper onto the car, with the standard airbox still in place, the car was sat sationary with the engine running for ages too, so the temps were high, plus the ECU had no time to adjust for the new filter it was just run!

Did seem to top out quickly at the higher revs though, so may have been a touch lean!?



Ideally Id like to have run the car standard, then fit the Viper properly, take the car out for spin to let the ECU work out whats going on, then re-run again without being sat stationary & getting too hot first.

 

[RS-Steve]

not sure how well this will show up buts here my graph of my car standard today VS my car today with viper!

the thick line is with the viper!!

http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/cliosport/gallery/full/1070739155__standardvsviper1.jpg

 

[pete172]

nice one. looks like santa might get a viper added to the list of pressies.

so who ran from on here and what results did they get.

have to organise a run on the rr after xmas once i get an induction kit.

cheers for the reply

 

[RS-Steve]

there was me, rhys, paddy an 1 of richs mates. the 1 who was too powerful for the rollers!! paddy had probs so not sure wot he got an i think rhys pulled about the same as me again but his graph was better! think rich is goona put them all in excell soon to get a proper comparrison again.

 

[rt172]

Quote: Originally posted by SilverRSC on 06 December 2003

there was me, rhys, paddy an 1 of richs mates. the 1 who was too powerful for the rollers!! paddy had probs so not sure wot he got an i think rhys pulled about the same as me again but his graph was better! think rich is goona put them all in excell soon to get a proper comparrison again.

Im just putting the data into Excel now. According to these graphs, I have 14bhp at the wheels more at 2000rpm that I did last time. What a load of b****cks. It was warmer today than last time, so its not that, and theres absolutely no way an inlet manifold is going to give mailto:14bhp@2000rpm">14bhp@2000rpm. Im really losing any faith I had in any rolling roads. Its not like Ken skimped today. We averaged an hour per car on the rollers.



PS: I wish I could have had a picture of Paddys face as his car jumped sideways and completely off the rollers at an indicated 90mph!

 

[RS-Steve]

you want my graph of standard vs viper or can you read it from above?? Ive got 4 different graph of standard, Today vs 2weeks ago, Viper run and Standard vs Viper.

 

[rt172]

Can you take another pic as straight as possible so I can draw a grid over it on the computer?

According to my graph, my peak power was around 155bhp, not 150bhp as written on the graph. WTF?!

EDIT - Forget it, that pics more or less straight. Ill do it off that.

 

[RS-Steve]

thats scanned, an i scanned it at a mates so its the best i can do, sorry.

According to my graph, my peak power was around 155bhp, not 150bhp as written on the graph. WTF?!

So wot would that make mine?? Jokin mate i had to mention it sometime!!

 

[Rich-D]

Really odd results today...

I have no faith comparing runs from today, with runs from 2 weeks ago!

 

[RS-Steve]

yeah mine read mailto:156@wheels">156@wheels this week and i got mailto:144@wheels">144@wheels 2 weeks ago an the diff was 500 miles on the clock!!! think i believe 2 weeks ago more.

 

[rt172]

Quote: Originally posted by SilverRSC on 06 December 2003


According to my graph, my peak power was around 155bhp, not 150bhp as written on the graph. WTF?!

So wot would that make mine?? Jokin mate i had to mention it sometime!!

I know youre just kidding, but read accross your graph with a ruler, and 156bhp peak looks right. Run a ruler accross my graph, and it reads 155bhp (nearly 156). Read down on mine, and that peak is at 6400rpm. Yet for some reason the text on the bottom of the graph says "150bhp at 6400rpm". On the graph its as clear as anything - 155bhp

 

[RS-Steve]

I like the nearly 156bhp!!

Must be a printing error. Not sure the computer was playing today cos mine read mailto:175bhp@wheels">175bhp@wheels at 1 point!! It did read 150 odd on the analogue dial so i reckon your about right with 155/156bhp

 

[rt172]

Quote: Originally posted by SilverRSC on 06 December 2003


I like the nearly 156bhp!!

Well, look for yourself and make your own mind up. Point being that it is def. more than 150bhp peak.

Must be a printing error. Not sure the computer was playing today cos mine read mailto:175bhp@wheels">175bhp@wheels at 1 point!! It did read 150 odd on the analogue dial so i reckon your about right with 155/156bhp

Yeah, bet you wish hed kept that run. Just a bit suspicious of it all now, especially because he kept deleting your runs until he got one low enough!

 

[RS-Steve]

Yeah i wont be tellin every1 i made mailto:156@wheels">156@wheels cos i dont think it did. (ok i mite do) Wasnt really impressed today however i think we got good value for the amount of time we were on! Reckon the 200sx screwed the computer!

 

[rt172]

Hmmm.....Ill put up some graphs in a min. The data thats printed on the You today vs Me today graph and the data on the graph of just my run is different. Totally different.

 

[paddymph]

eventful day!

fookin sh*te me pants i did

 

[RS-Steve]

Quote: Originally posted by paddymph on 06 December 2003


fookin sh*te me pants i did

Was that when your car jumped off the rollers, or back on, or back off again???? My heart sank an i was at the far end of the carpark! Think id have passed out if i were you!!!

 

[paddymph]

haha, according to ken even if it did come off it wouldnt go anywhere as theres no inertia, at worst itll roll off backward slowly, thats it.

still bad tho!

 

[rt172]

http://www.rhys172.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/rr%20plots%2001.JPGhttp://www.rhys172.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/rr%20plots%2001.JPG


The blue line is the data from the graph of my run today.
The pink line is my run from two weeks ago.
The yellow line is the data from the graph of todays run taken from the graph of my run that the guy overlaid on SilverRSCs graph.
For anyone whos confused, the data on the overlaid graph is totally different to the data on my graphs If you look at the comparison of my car against SilverRSCs standard mk2, it dont look good for me:

http://www.rhys172.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/RR%20day%2002%20001.jpghttp://www.rhys172.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/RR%20day%2002%20001.jpg

But this is the graph I was given after my run:

http://www.rhys172.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/RR%20day%2002%20005.jpghttp://www.rhys172.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/RR%20day%2002%20005.jpg

And this is the run from 22nd November compared to today:

http://www.rhys172.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/RR%20day%2002%20004.jpghttp://www.rhys172.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/RR%20day%2002%20004.jpg

Supposedly gaining up to 14bhp in places from a small breathing mod made to the inlet manifold. Somehow, I think not.





Edit - on the graph that I put into Excel (top link) the lines look like theyre incorrectly offset against each other. Theyre not, I just had data from and to different revs on each run.

 

[paddymph]

lets just wait for york eh?!

 

[rt172]

Quote: Originally posted by paddymph on 06 December 2003




lets just wait for york eh?!

Too right. Looking forward to pulverising you in race after race. Again.

 

[paddymph]

git.

 

[CUPPY]

viper thumbs up or not then boys!!!!

 

[CUPPY]

what was everyones bhp at the flywheel

 

[paddymph]

yeah, viper works according to todays results!

RE dont do Flywheel figs, i got 144 @ wheels, but mines not running proper (its going back to RENO AGAIN), peak power made at about 5400.....clearly fooked.

 

[rt172]

Cuppy - yes, thumbs up. Itll make a noticeable positive difference to your car. Dont expect big bhp gains, but do expect it to make you a bit quicker.

BHP at the wheels? We dont know because the bhp was being measured at the wheels. I think 15% is a rough figure for FWD, but it varies, so why bother guessing?

 

[RS-Steve]

See wot ya mean bout the readin bin 150bhp but the chart goes up to 150+ That def a computin error cos the plot carries on but the axis doesnt!

still wish i had the printout for mailto:175@the"> 175 @ the wheels!! But i suppose 157 with the viper on will be enuff to turn a few noses even if i dont believe it myself, if im honest!

 

[rt172]

Quote: Originally posted by SilverRSC on 06 December 2003


See wot ya mean bout the readin bin 150bhp but the chart goes up to 150+ That def a computin error cos the plot carries on but the axis doesnt!

Its all the values that are different. Hes plotted 2 totally different runs on the graphs.

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by CUPPY on 06 December 2003

viper thumbs up or not then boys!!!!

Yeah... if you want more mid-range power & torque then the Viper delivers, but theres not a huge gain in peak power, but I know what Id rather have...

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by Rhys on 06 December 2003


BHP at the wheels? We dont know because the bhp was being measured at the wheels. I think 15% is a rough figure for FWD, but it varies, so why bother guessing?

To get the @ fly figure, take the @ wheels figure, divide by 85, then multiply by 100 and that gives you a 15% transmission loss...

 

[rt172]

But no matter what, its still just a calculated figure! Mind you, given yesterdays results, its all a load of arse

 

[CUPPY]

cheers guys..you will have to let me know when you are arranging another one cos im coming!!! i think the viper has it then!!! shame i dont have a car to fit it to? what would reno not cover under warranty for fitting one?

 

[chris172]

when all the runs were being done was the c02 monitored?? this was how mine was mapped for the fueling problem the viper gave me.

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by chris172 on 07 December 2003


when all the runs were being done was the c02 monitored?? this was how mine was mapped for the fueling problem the viper gave me.

Yeah, emissions were being monitored during the runs...

What fuelling problem did you have?!

 

[chris172]

Before I put it on I was getting 38-43 mpg according to the trip comp and working it out manually. When I put the Viper on I was struggling to get 20mpg. Also when it was chipped on the same rollers that i had a standard reading for it had lost 5bhp. Operator said it was leaning out at mid point and massively overfueling at WOT....after the chip I now get about 30mpg

Thought all Vipers caused fueling probs.....seem to remember Roamer had with his when he first put the Viper on too.

 

[Rich-D]

No problems with mine...

Fuel economy is the same with or without the Viper, in fact possibly 1-2mpg better with the Viper on if driving "normally"!



I had the fuelling checked when it was on the rollers 2 weeks ago and hew said it was all ok, but just going ever so slightly on the lean side at high revs, but not enough to cause any concern or problems.

Nick Hill said the same for when he tested a Viper on a Cup.



Remember all cars differ so best to get it checked out and not take it for granted.

 

[Kev.]

Sorry i didnt get there lads, i was way too hungover at 12oclock So i got out of bed and went straight on the piss to cure it!!

Sounds like it was a pretty dissapointing day too, still wish i couldve made it just to see Paddys car.....still never seen a Red 172

Ill see you all at the next meet ..... still think we should have an xmas pissup!!

Boyo

 

[Rich-D]

p!sshead...