Hence why I say track toy, they're not there to set lap times but to thrill the driver instead imo.
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'Fast road car'
- Thread starter Sam@NP
- Start date
Hence why I say track toy, they're not there to set lap times but to thrill the driver instead imo.
Thing is though, go for a relatively slow speed drive out in the countryside in one, down the beach and back etc, and they are brilliant fun on just b roads even driven at 7/10ths.
Its a totally different sort of drive, and yet still great on the road and doesnt feel compromised for that sort of use, I guess its more what you would call a "sunday drive" car in that respect, just enjoying the joy of motoring but without actually needing to clip every apex perfectly and heal and toe along etc.
90% of westfield owners are pikeys , who can't drive and have cars not set up for track ......... that's the issue you will find phil
They are definately the worst owners for having cars with 20 year old track rod ends or tracking out, or knackered shocks etc but still assuming just cause its a westy it must still handle well.
thats exactly what the smaller engined k series caterhams are great at ...... keep screens and weather gear and a 1.4k series will do its job and it will make you smile all day long .....
It is a silly phrase, I would never have considered my trophy to be a fast road car because of the changes I made. Now a GT3 is a fast car be it on track or road. That has a roll cage and missing bits of interior up grading everything does that mean its a 'fast road car'?
my punto (1.2 8v) has better pads, springs dampers and no rear seats so would that be a fast road car? I use it for taking diesel cans, chainsaws etc to building sites and need the extra space and stopping power when it's loaded up.
Am I getting old?
my punto (1.2 8v) has better pads, springs dampers and no rear seats so would that be a fast road car? I use it for taking diesel cans, chainsaws etc to building sites and need the extra space and stopping power when it's loaded up.
Am I getting old?
the honest answer Sam is yes probably , howeve r fast road is different to different people and is whatever makes them happy .
The english language is full of phrases that mean slightly different things to different people, so I dont think its just a case of you are getting old, its probably more a case of because the term has become a trendy one to use on car forums you keep seeing people badly misuse it and so have developed a pet hate for it.
Your punto has some fast road mods on it (the brakes and suspension) so I guess if you wanted to then you could argue it was more suitable now for fast road driving than the standard car was, but TBH sounds more like your focus was in making it a better van rather than make it faster, but thats perfectly reasonable that people can do the same thing for more than one reason, some people try and lose weight out of their car (especially the manufacturers) to improve economy for example, but a side effect is better performance too.
The world would be dull if we were all the same.
Fast road car to me is more power, putting the power down better, better handling and braking without compromising the car on the road. So making it too crashy or twitchy, too loud. So effectively you could still use it every day quite easily, its just faster in a straight line, around bends and coming to a stop.
The next step is road legal track car, stripped out (completely or partially), harnesses, stiffer suspension that compromises the ride quality, noise levels, roll cage. You might use it occasionally but you wouldn't want to use it all of the time.
With mine I'll probably go somewhere in between as I won't be using it daily but I still need some degree of comfort, low noise level and practicality from it.
The next step is road legal track car, stripped out (completely or partially), harnesses, stiffer suspension that compromises the ride quality, noise levels, roll cage. You might use it occasionally but you wouldn't want to use it all of the time.
With mine I'll probably go somewhere in between as I won't be using it daily but I still need some degree of comfort, low noise level and practicality from it.
Exactly the same way I view it.
Your first description is our RS2 one. Still amazing as a road car, aircon etc
Your second description is our Mk1. Road legal but horrible for long journeys with the cage and no radio etc
And your third is my halfway house ph1 turbo, slightly worse mpg, clutch is a bit grabby, no aircon, but still ok for long distances really
trouble is one car modified to fast road , may be slower than another bog stock from the dealer ....... so what's fast road?
SharkyUK
ClioSport Club Member
^ That sums it up nicely with regards to how I interpret the 'fast road car' term. This is also largely how I view my modified Trophy. In many eyes it's probably too much for purely a 'road car' (arguably) but I love the driving experience the level of mod's afford me and they are great for the sort of driving / roads I enjoy. Plus, it has the bonus of being a fairly potent little track car for the odd track day now and again without being a complete track sl4g.
Well that's where saying "modified for fast road" is like saying "lowered" but it may still be higher than other cars which are standard.
Nearly all the differences between a base model Clio and a 172 are "fast road" type mods but done by Renault. So if you start with a base model and do less mods than the differences to a 172 its likely to be not as good a fast road car as one.
Bluebeard
ClioSport Moderator
Whichever has fuel
IMO, nobody can drive a Clio 172 to its full potential on the road, let alone anything faster! Certainly not legally or without risk of death.
Modifying a car to be able to call it 'fast road' is utterly pointless if you're not able to drive the standard car to its full potential in the first place.
Road legal track car is where it's at.
Modifying a car to be able to call it 'fast road' is utterly pointless if you're not able to drive the standard car to its full potential in the first place.
Road legal track car is where it's at.
oooooh so buying a better faster car is cheaper and better than modifying a stock one ......
I agree with that bit. as on the road you need to leave a larger margin of safety
but if you make your car handle better you alter how fast you can drive and still leave that same margin
We've got a selection of clios each with a different focus, but if I could only have one of them, it would be the "fast road" one for sure.
oooooh so buying a better faster car is cheaper and better than modifying a stock one ......
Sometimes, but not always, it depends if a better faster car is actually available that is still what you want.
So if you are talking buying a 1.6 clio to modify then yes buy a 172 instead, but if you are talking 172 as the starting point, I cant think of a single better faster car that I would sooner have for the same money that we spent doing our "fast road" clio.
So generally it makes sense to start with the best type of car for the genre of car you are interested in and modify it. So modifying a 172 makes lots of sense to me.
BMW M4; S1000 RR
I've always thought it was a funny term tbh, if you modify a 172 with some brakes and suspension to be a 'fast road car', then what would you call a standard Megane 250?
With a new suspension kit how much faster can you really make a 172 go round a corner.
As Daniel said, whatever you do to the 172's suspension/brakes/exhaust you'd be a nutcase to drive faster than what a 172 is capable of on the road (motorways discounted).
With a new suspension kit how much faster can you really make a 172 go round a corner.
As Daniel said, whatever you do to the 172's suspension/brakes/exhaust you'd be a nutcase to drive faster than what a 172 is capable of on the road (motorways discounted).
twelve
R-Sport.
ClioSport Club Member
Mint 1*2's for sale-
Why are people comparing a fast road clio with other makes that may be faster as standard, a fast road car is just the standard car modified to perform better on the road.
The other cars mentioned are standard cars that happen to be faster out the box, but its still standard!
i would class fast road car as a generic term that reflects a large portion of the clios on here, that is performance parts added to optimise the overall cars road going ability.
simples really
The other cars mentioned are standard cars that happen to be faster out the box, but its still standard!
i would class fast road car as a generic term that reflects a large portion of the clios on here, that is performance parts added to optimise the overall cars road going ability.
simples really
Bluebeard
ClioSport Moderator
Whichever has fuel
But that's my point. Nobody can drive to the cars full potential on the road. So what's the point in adding stuff to it and calling it fast road?!
bozothenutter
ClioSport Club Member
sounds cool innit...fast road > road
WRX
Exactly why I can't understand anybody fitting coilovers just for road use.
hence our mainly ( 99%) road clio has , and exhaust (and a quiet one at that) because the old one had rotted , cooksport springs , and some spacers , other than that its rebuilt standard and all works without any creaks or rattles.
i have built cars that become so modified you just stop enjoying them on the road , and trailering to tracks has its downsides .... but some people like to tinker , nothing wrong in that .
There's a "test corner" I use
65 in the clio when it was on standard cup setup.
Now does 90-95
So in answer... a lot
Think your missing the point. You don't have to drive a car flat out to have a bit of fun on back roads.
There are endless unused B roads from Lincoln to the coast - you can whack big brakes on and good suspension and do them all at 60 laughing your ass off. Standard car maybe 40ish.
It's not about speeding.
Your standard cup setup had faults if it was that much slower on the same bend, or you have learned to drive better since.
More to that speed difference than just a set of coilovers!
But I do agree it does make a significant difference, and not just to corner speed but to how the car feels, its more rewarding driving a car with more roll resistance as initial turn in feels so much nicer, even at much lower speeds than would be just about possible in the standard car.
And thats the main reason to change it of course in the context of the road (and something Daniel and a few others seem to miss), to make it more enjoyable to drive not just faster.
sbridgey
ClioSport Club Member
disco 4, 182, Meglio
How much of that is just stickier tyres and camber?
I found mine was much faster with just these mods.
Agreed, got to be things like that to it as well, no way ANY set of coilovers is going to add 40 off percent to your apex speed over the standard cup setup if its in good order!
R-Sport.
ClioSport Club Member
Mint 1*2's for sale-
Your correct you cant get the best out of it, however adding the alleged fast road stuff adds confidence & drivability.
If you go to the extreme end of fast road on a 172- IE
strong brakes, better suspension, Standard suspension refurb, ARB, the best tyres - the result is a considerable difference in performance away from standard.
Which = MORE FUN!
BMW M4; S1000 RR
Tyres will make the most difference to corner speed of course.
Suspension is generally just going to change the handling characteristics. The standard setup is very capable and despite a bit of body roll, grips the road well. Several times I've found myself going round corners a lot faster than I should (in the eyes of the law). FWD cars are designed to roll about a bit.
Agree with the turn in comment Chip, but the point stands that is a handling change rather than making the car more capable as "fast road" suggests.
Suspension is generally just going to change the handling characteristics. The standard setup is very capable and despite a bit of body roll, grips the road well. Several times I've found myself going round corners a lot faster than I should (in the eyes of the law). FWD cars are designed to roll about a bit.
Agree with the turn in comment Chip, but the point stands that is a handling change rather than making the car more capable as "fast road" suggests.
sbridgey
ClioSport Club Member
disco 4, 182, Meglio
I disagree, being on the edge of grip is fun, surely being able to do that at lower speeds is better?
Bluebeard
ClioSport Moderator
Whichever has fuel
So everyone that calls their car 'fast road' commutes through Lincoln?
I didn't say just coilovers - they asked how much a change in suspension could alter a car.
-3degrees of camber at front, -2.3 at back, and good spec coilovers with strut braces and ARB. All suspension changes
No - it was just an example. Everywhere has country roads if you look for them.
I remember now though you hate 106's and saxo's so quite clearly you have no idea how much fun can be had from a low power good handling go kart on back roads
It is indeed, although even as standard you have to be driving pretty damn quick or do something stupid to loose grip completely, wet is always fun to try and push the little grip there is. I'll admit this morning on the way to work I nearly spun the clio on a wet roundabout.
John Gordon
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 2.0 RS 172 Ph1
To me the term fast road car would apply to a car that is fast and/or modified to go faster and yet is still road legal.
Generally upgraded shocks and springs will do both, ie improve turn in and improve apex speed as the standards are way too soft for ultimate apex speeds.
But as per several comments on this thread, "fast road" to me is as much about being enjoyable to drive fairly fast on the road, as the actual time it takes to get somewhere being reduced, can normally achieve that more just by going quick on the straight bits.
