Fuel additives/cleaners or premium fuels?

[AndyPembs182]

I always put Shell V-Power in my 182 but sometimes wonder if I should put a fuel additive/cleaner through every so often? I know that the petrol is a premium product and is certainly supposed to contain cleaning additives, but there’s so much marketing....

Thoughts and opinions, please! And any product recommendations and experiences are welcome.

 

[MRBILLYUK]

I've had my 182 since new and it's always been run on V power or Optimax as it was back then except for 3 occasions when I needed petrol and couldn't find a shell garage.
The past couple of years I've been adding half a bottle of Redex petrol cleaner every couple of months.
Whether either of them has benefited the engine I don't know. But I like to think they have. It's on 88k miles and still runs sweet ( touch wood ) .
Carparts4less , Eurocarparts and Screwfix are usually the cheapest I've found.

 

[JB21]

Just stick with V power or any premium fuel inc Tesco Momentum. They've got all the adds you need.

 

[Martin.]

Ashford Motorsport (build race engines) told me to NEVER use Momentum. I has additives to increase the RON or something similar.

V-Power is all you need. Nothing else.

 

[JB21]

Ashford Motorsport (build race engines) told me to NEVER use Momentum. I has additives to increase the RON or something similar.

V-Power is all you need. Nothing else.

All the premium fuels have additives (octane boosters) to increase RON.

 

[Martin.]

Maybe. I'm no expert. I originally thought momentum was the same quality as V-Power. All I know is that Ashford motorsport who build and run race engines/cars said to never use momemtum. They've been running multiple no cost limit Clio race cars so their development experience is huge.

 

[JB21]

Maybe. I'm no expert. I originally thought momentum was the same quality as V-Power. All I know is that Ashford motorsport who build and run race engines/cars said to never use momemtum. They've been running multiple no cost limit Clio race cars so their development experience is huge.

Neither am I, I've only worked in the fuel and oil additive industry for over a decade 🤣

 

[Ben]

Slightly off topic but is the V-Power diesel worth it?

 

[Gouldy]

Any normal petrol is fine, just stay away from supermarkets.

I researched this heavily at one point a few years back. Unless you're running a very high performance vehicle that specifies that you must run it on high performance fuel, it's pretty pointless.

I run my bikes on normal shell petrol and I've never had any issues. My fire blade runs sweet as a nut on shell 95, I run the same fuel in my corsa daily driver.

Modern fuels come with lubricants etc already mixed in so no need for additives IIRC

 

[botfch]

Slightly off topic but is the V-Power diesel worth it?

Unless you've got something special I wouldn't bother, just get some redex if you want to give the system a clean.

 

[JamesBryan]

The ethanol content is what boosts most octane ratings.

Wish we had E85 over here.

 

[497adam]

Unless you've got something special I wouldn't bother, just get some redex if you want to give the system a clean.

The diesels I’ve had seem to do marginally more to the gallon on it but probably not enough to make the cost worthwhile. That aside we try to stick a tankful through once in a while or a dose of millers just to try and avoid dpf/egr issues down the line


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[497adam]

Neither am I, I've only worked in the fuel and oil additive industry for over a decade [emoji1787]

What’s added to the premium fuels?


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[JB21]

What’s added to the premium fuels?


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Cleaning/performance additives and octane boosters.

 

[botfch]

The diesels I’ve had seem to do marginally more to the gallon on it but probably not enough to make the cost worthwhile. That aside we try to stick a tankful through once in a while or a dose of millers just to try and avoid dpf/egr issues down the line


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Its basically just got the soot cleaner stuff in it so usually works out cheaper to just buy a bottle for a few quid and chuck that in with normal fuel.

 

[497adam]

Cleaning/performance additives and octane boosters.

Is what’s added/what proportions different between the brands?


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[497adam]

Its basically just got the soot cleaner stuff in it so usually works out cheaper to just buy a bottle for a few quid and chuck that in with normal fuel.

Normally just get the millers additive


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[JB21]

Is what’s added/what proportions different between the brands?


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We aren't privy to the manufacturers individual formulations (BOM's) and dosage for their finished products however all the big players (power5) BP, Shell, Total, Texaco, ESSO take the same additives. They have a base grade fuel and add our additives to make them into the premium grades e.g Shell V-power, BP ultimate etc. The supermarket brands have just the one base fuel, the standard 95RON (petrol)/51Cetane (diesel) garbage that's derived from crap quality base stocks, hence all the issues reported with supermarket fuels especially the diesel.

Tesco have the Ultimate grade which used to be the crappy supermarket base stock 95RON with an Octane booster to get the RON to 99. Now Tesco use Shell premium base stock with additional additives and octane booster to produce Momentum99, but I wouldn't be surprised if Momentum99 and V-power are exactly the same, made in the same plant just loaded onto different Tesco/Shell trucks. I've never noticed a difference between the 2 in recent years.

Ultimately all the branded 95RON/51+Cetane fuels are fine unless manufacturers recommend a higher octane grade, and I'm presuming this will just be to meet ECU parameters for extra performance and to reduce knock and ping etc, just like mapping your engine to a 99RON fuel to maximise BHP and smooth running.

STAY AWAY FROM THE 95RON/51CETANE SUPERMARKET GRADE PETROL AND DIESEL

 

[White16valver]

We aren't privy to the manufacturers individual formulations (BOM's) and dosage for their finished products however all the big players (power5) BP, Shell, Total, Texaco, ESSO take the same additives. They have a base grade fuel and add our additives to make them into the premium grades e.g Shell V-power, BP ultimate etc. The supermarket brands have just the one base fuel, the standard 95RON (petrol)/51Cetane (diesel) garbage that's derived from crap quality base stocks, hence all the issues reported with supermarket fuels especially the diesel.

Tesco have the Ultimate grade which used to be the crappy supermarket base stock 95RON with an Octane booster to get the RON to 99. Now Tesco use Shell premium base stock with additional additives and octane booster to produce Momentum99, but I wouldn't be surprised if Momentum99 and V-power are exactly the same, made in the same plant just loaded onto different Tesco/Shell trucks. I've never noticed a difference between the 2 in recent years.

Ultimately all the branded 95RON/51+Cetane fuels are fine unless manufacturers recommend a higher octane grade, and I'm presuming this will just be to meet ECU parameters for extra performance and to reduce knock and ping etc, just like mapping your engine to a 99RON fuel to maximise BHP and smooth running.

STAY AWAY FROM THE 95RON/51CETANE SUPERMARKET GRADE PETROL AND DIESEL

Awesome info, cheers

I have no actual evidence other than my anecdotal experience, but I usually run either Sainsburys Super or Tesco Momentum99 - both of which make the engine 'feel' smoother.

I rarely use V-Power (because tight ) but the odd occasion I do, I find the exhaust emissions smell properly evil - I therefore would guess that Shell are adding something different to the supermarkets!

 

[adamlstr]

We aren't privy to the manufacturers individual formulations (BOM's) and dosage for their finished products however all the big players (power5) BP, Shell, Total, Texaco, ESSO take the same additives. They have a base grade fuel and add our additives to make them into the premium grades e.g Shell V-power, BP ultimate etc. The supermarket brands have just the one base fuel, the standard 95RON (petrol)/51Cetane (diesel) garbage that's derived from crap quality base stocks, hence all the issues reported with supermarket fuels especially the diesel.

Tesco have the Ultimate grade which used to be the crappy supermarket base stock 95RON with an Octane booster to get the RON to 99. Now Tesco use Shell premium base stock with additional additives and octane booster to produce Momentum99, but I wouldn't be surprised if Momentum99 and V-power are exactly the same, made in the same plant just loaded onto different Tesco/Shell trucks. I've never noticed a difference between the 2 in recent years.

Ultimately all the branded 95RON/51+Cetane fuels are fine unless manufacturers recommend a higher octane grade, and I'm presuming this will just be to meet ECU parameters for extra performance and to reduce knock and ping etc, just like mapping your engine to a 99RON fuel to maximise BHP and smooth running.

STAY AWAY FROM THE 95RON/51CETANE SUPERMARKET GRADE PETROL AND DIESEL

I can tell you that Shell V-Power and Tesco Momentum are very different.

Momentum is made/brewed by a company called Greenergy, who use a large amount of ethanol to boost the RON, certainly a lot more than Shell do. Whether or not they use Shell 95 as the base, I'm not sure.

https://www.greenergy.com/uploads/LdcN6uEgdclc_Unleaded%2095%20Petrol_specification%20sheet_Feb18.pdf

Interesting that they don't list the composition of Tesco M99, presumably down to NDA and such.

 

[White16valver]

I can tell you that Shell V-Power and Tesco Momentum are very different.

Momentum is made/brewed by a company called Greenergy, who use a large amount of ethanol to boost the RON, certainly a lot more than Shell do. Whether or not they use Shell 95 as the base, I'm not sure.

I think the ethanol content is 5% on all the supermarket fuels, isn't it?

 

[adamlstr]

I think the ethanol content is 5% on all the supermarket fuels, isn't it?

I think we get E10 now too, which is 10%, however Ethanol is less calorific than pure petroleum. So boosting a fuels RON with ethanol content is false economy in terms of power release.

 

[Martin.]

The cost difference between VPower and shitty fuel over a tank is so minimal too, it's really not worth thinking about, for the sake of a few quid just put the good stuff in.

Unless you have a low power daily. I obviously don't stick VPower in my 1.2L 65bhp corsa haha!

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

I use Tesco Momentum in my 197 and did in my 172 as well. Anecdotally, I just think it reduces the rough running a touch when they're cold. None of my cars have blown up yet, so I shall carry on as I am.

If I had a heavily modified car that was mapped for a certain fuel type, I would stick to it but, for the vast majority of cars, it's probably not worth worrying about.

 

[JB21]

I can tell you that Shell V-Power and Tesco Momentum are very different.

Momentum is made/brewed by a company called Greenergy, who use a large amount of ethanol to boost the RON, certainly a lot more than Shell do. Whether or not they use Shell 95 as the base, I'm not sure.

https://www.greenergy.com/uploads/LdcN6uEgdclc_Unleaded%2095%20Petrol_specification%20sheet_Feb18.pdf

Interesting that they don't list the composition of Tesco M99, presumably down to NDA and such.

Where are you getting that Shell uses a lot less Ethanol than Greenenergy?

 

[adamlstr]

Where are you getting that Shell uses a lot less Ethanol than Greenenergy?

My info is a bit old now, but I was involved in the testing of Momentum back in 2010/11.

 

[JamesBryan]

More ethanol the better IMO, only downside is less MPG.

 

[Kev@KAM]

Cant say I can tell the difference by the seat of my pants with Shell V-Power and Tesco Momentum. Tesco is so much cheaper though.
Tried some asda 95 as it was an emergency fill up. Probably 5mpg worse.
Thats on a turboed engine.

Shell V-power diesel seemed to improve fuel consumption but not enough to justify the cost.

 

[White16valver]

I think we get E10 now too, which is 10%, however Ethanol is less calorific than pure petroleum. So boosting a fuels RON with ethanol content is false economy in terms of power release.

I am sure I read somewhere (pistonheads forum, maybe?) that E10 has basically disappeared from UK forecourts, be it due to potential engine damage or legislation - I can't remember now!

More ethanol the better IMO, only downside is less MPG.

Doesn't it also eat hosepipes etc. in cars that aren't designed to run on high-ethanol fuels? lol

 

[White16valver]

The cost difference between VPower and shitty fuel over a tank is so minimal too, it's really not worth thinking about, for the sake of a few quid just put the good stuff in.

Unless you have a low power daily. I obviously don't stick VPower in my 1.2L 65bhp corsa haha!

Yes... but also no... lol

Local VPower is something like 10p/litre more than Super at my local Sainsburys - and on a 50-55 litre fill-up (from fumes to brim) that's over a fiver a tank more, which is not insignificant when one is doing a tank a week (gotta love a 100mile round trip commute...).

Super is, what, 4p? 5p? a litre more, so that's less of a psychological barrier, lol.

And I can see why people running 'normal' petrol scoff at VPower - if you're paying 14-15p/litre less for 95RON, an extra £7.50 a tank for unquantifiable benefits on a car you will sell well before it gets 'old' (100k miles? lol) is not very enticing!

 

[Martin.]

Ethanol has some kind of water retention from condensation. Obviously that would not be good to leave it standing for long periods, especially inside an engine.

 

[JamesBryan]

Doesn't it also eat hosepipes etc. in cars that aren't designed to run on high-ethanol fuels? lol

Modern cars will handle the higher content, but yeah stuff like E85 needs stuff adapting.

 

[davo172]

Waste of time unless you are running a remapped turbo car.
Ran several different cars over the years had them on dynos and been to pod more times than I can remember in them, ran on all types of fuel and the dyno figures and times at pod are no different cars run no different either all placebo imo.

 

[bloke]

Lost count of how many cars I've had mapped on Tesco fuel. It's fine, go for shell though if you want to pay the extra, not that you'll get any benefit from it just the satisfying feeling you've helped boost their astronomical profits!!!

 

[R3k1355]

Waste of time unless you are running a remapped turbo car.
Ran several different cars over the years had them on dynos and been to pod more times than I can remember in them, ran on all types of fuel and the dyno figures and times at pod are no different cars run no different either all placebo imo.

Don't think I ever noticed a difference between them on my 182 either.

Doesn't help that the local Shell are total Robdogs either, nearly 10p/litre more expensive for normal fuel than the supermarket 5 minutes away.

 

[botfch]

Don't think I ever noticed a difference between them on my 182 either.

Doesn't help that the local Shell are total Robdogs either, nearly 10p/litre more expensive for normal fuel than the supermarket 5 minutes away.

Well tbf I'm not sure you can class what started life as a luguna/espace engine high performance....

 

[AndyPembs182]

Annoyingly my local Tesco is only pay at pump and doesn’t sell the good stuff....

 

[White16valver]

I know it might make no difference empirically but I've found Super makes the engine run smoother in all the cars I've used it in (so all of them, lol).

An ex even said to me one day "it's running really smoothly at the moment" without knowing I'd been putting Super in for the last few tanks.

For the marginal cost compared to 95, I'll keep on using it.

 

[R3k1355]

An ex even said to me one day "it's running really smoothly at the moment"

This is the point I knew you were telling fibs.

The car could be missing a wheel and a woman still wouldn't notice.

 

[Kev@KAM]

This is the point I knew you were telling fibs.

The car could be missing a wheel and a woman still wouldn't notice.

Yeah mine used to drive with flat tyres.