How much to charge - Advice

[DanFreemanPhoto]

One thing I have always been crap at is charging people. I don't do it often, mainly because I'm not confident enough in my photography to actually charge people.

So it's the ago old question.......how much do I charge?

I know this depends on a number of different things, like what they will use the image for, how many images etc...

I have been asked by packaging company to shoot some products. I've already done a set of images for them, they've asked how much they owe me, but I will say not to worry as it was a first time, sort of breaking the ice job.

But they've asked me to do some more shots, but they'd like to know my pricing first.

I have no idea what to charge.....

They will be using the images for their website, and advertising/leaflets etc, so pretty major stuff.

I don't really want to charge per image or time based, just a price for the job.

So I need a bit of advice from you folk. If you work in a similar field, and sent some products away for some shots, how much would you expect to be charged?

I want to be careful, as I am fully aware that not charging enough can be bad for you too. Then, they use you because you're cheap and not necessarily because they like your photos.

 

[DaveDreads]

I know you might not like charging for you time or the amount of products shot, but that's the only real way you can price a job up.

You need to know how many products there will be, how long it will take to shoot each one and how long it will take to
process them on photoshop.

Then add up all that time and it should give you a rough idea of what to charge.
A standard day rate would be £300, but it's job dependant, I always quote more than I want and let them haggle me
down to what I actually wanted, sometimes they accept the first quote.

If you can give me a rough idea of amount of products, time on each including photoshop then I can tell you what I would charge.

Don't under sell yourself, i've seen your work and it's top quality mate.

 

[Revels]

How many products and how long will it take you?

Two key questions really. I'd say £20p/h or per product. But then it depends on the amount. That's probably not worth your time if you're doing 3 things but might be a bit excessive if you've got to do 100.

Photography is strange thing when it comes to pricing. It's hard to know where to pitch and the other thing is what they're expecting to pay. They might be thinking 'This Dan is a good lad, he'll do all 1,000 products for the catalogue, edit and resize them into 4 sizes for £100' or they might be expecting you to charge them £100p/h for a full week.

 

[welshname]

be sneaky and get a quote off another photographer with for the same work?

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

The main reason I'm wary of charging based on time is because I'm still learning myself. So another photographer who does this constantly could just place the products down, fiddle with the lights for a bit, then job done. But I would take a bit longer to get the same result (I hope). But then I guess you could counter that by charging less per hour.

The first job I did was three packages (I posted a shot of it in the random shots thread). So I did a group shot, individual shots etc. I was in the studio for about 3 hours, then about another 2 on photoshop.

 

[DaveDreads]

Those shots of the laptops you did were very good, I use to assist a product photographer in the summer
when I was still at school and sometimes he took a couple of days to get just a few shots, endlessly
faffing around with lights, sometimes he belted out loads of shots in a day.

Don't get bogged down with what other photographers do with there shoots, you've got the job not them.

Also they probably want a uniformed look for all the products, so that a website or ad campaign has the same style,
this means you can setup the lights once and only minor tweaking is needed for different sized products.

How many products have you got to shoot?

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

Probably just a few I think.

But that's another issue. If I was given one to shoot, I doubt anyone would charge three times more to shoot 3 products.

 

[Revels]

There's always going to be a higher cost for one because of the set up involved.

Depends how much you value your time. I did a website for someone recently and charged them a low amount and my hourly rate would have been awful but it's a bit of pocket money and I like doing it. Had that been a work thing, they cost would have been 5x as much.

It took it took you 5 hours in total last time. Would you be happy with £100 for what you did? Less because you like doing it and it's more of a hobby? More because you think £100 is too little?

 

[DaveDreads]

That's where charging for time comes into play, if it's three then you can get them done in a day including photoshop more than likely.
So I would think £300 is reasonable but if you feel that's a bit much then £150-£250 is more than fair.

 

[SamP]

I normally charge a flat rate of £100 for any club work/promo work I do. That normally includes 4 hours of work at location and then another 2 in PP. If the customer wants something more then normally its £20p/h extra. I dont know if thats the going rate at all, but considering the gear we lug along and the price of insurance/travel it seems about fair to me?

Only problem is now its summer the 's**t but free' crowd of students are out and rob all the work. c***s.

 

[dunganick]

I think useage is another element to consider. If they are being used low res on a website or for some online marketing then its just your time you want paying for. However if they want them for promotion, magazine adverts etc... then it demands more of a premium.

Personally i would just charge what i was happy with. A few £000 for a few cheeky hours after work + a few hours editing is better than nothing. In time you will have a better understanding of the time/cost to you involved and you can adjust accordingly.

I would say between £100 to 300 is fair. But it does depend. If they want 500 tiny mirrors photographed then that would be a rubbish job.

 

[DaveDreads]

I normally charge a flat rate of £100 for any club work/promo work I do. That normally includes 4 hours of work at location and then another 2 in PP. If the customer wants something more then normally its £20p/h extra. I dont know if thats the going rate at all, but considering the gear we lug along and the price of insurance/travel it seems about fair to me?

Only problem is now its summer the 's**t but free' crowd of students are out and rob all the work. c**ts.

This is why i'm currently looking for full time work in someone elses studio.
Everyone with a DSLR thinks they're a professional photographer and are diluting the market for pocket money.

 

[SamP]

This is why i'm currently looking for full time work in someone elses studio.
Everyone with a DSLR thinks they're a professional photographer and are diluting the market for pocket money.

Try working in nightlife; its the definition of pain when you see someone get a job over you and they rock in with a 1000D a 18 - 55 and blasting away with the flash focus assist. Boils my piss...

 

[dunganick]

So long as they are charging its fair play, they beat you on something other than price, connections, tallent, kit, whatever. But if they give away their service then thats not on.

 

[SamP]

So long as they are charging its fair play, they beat you on something other than price, connections, tallent, kit, whatever. But if they give away their service then thats not on.

Picture-pal/dontstayin/tillate all dont get paid and are all sent via the agency. Complete f**king joke imo.

 

[dunganick]

Yup, but thats modern photography. Its unlikely to change back to how it was pre digital, so all we can really do is find ways around it.

 

[DaveDreads]

I seen loads of freelance jobs advertised recently as 'great way to gain experience or build your portfolio'
all aimed at students that a few years ago would have been paid commisions.

I was earning good money with my studio a year ago but i've had to let it go through lack of work.

I'm honestly concidering retraining as a mechanic, just because of the amount of jobs there are and I can
sort the Clio out on my own.

 

[Bluebeard]

Can you work out some sort of an average?

Say you spend 2 hours shooting something, a further 4 hours editing and then a furhter 2 getting them printed (I've no idea about photography!) you need to charge for the whole process.

Say thats 8 hours, you need to be paying yourself at least £20 an hour gross imo.

So a two hour photo shoot should cost your client £2-250.

Unlike my wedding photographer.... £600 per hour. Yes you heard me right.

 

[SamP]

Unlike my wedding photographer.... £600 per hour. Yes you heard me right.

I know a couple of people who just kept upping their prices so they could work less. Went from £1000 an event to £3500 and there was no change in their workload! If I wasnt so s**t with people it'd be a business I'd love to get into :/

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

Thanks for the advice so far guys.

I was thinking around £100 initially, but I think that might be a bit low. If it's for promotional material, then they should have a hefty budget for it.

 

[DaveDreads]

£150 min imho, although £200 would be better.
But let them know it's a favour if they give you more work then £250 min

If you charge too little then they'll expect it every time.

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

If you charge too little then they'll expect it every time.

That's my biggest worry. If I charge £100 the first time, then £200 the next time, they'll probably get a bit funny with me!

Cheers guys

 

[DaveDreads]

Not if they like your work, they'll use you because they know you can get the job done.

Bear in mind the years of experiance as a photographer you have, and the amount of skill required to produce
high quality images.

 

[Andy.]

Don't sell yourself short. Just because you don't make a living off it, doesn't mean that your work isn't worth a normal amount. The quality of your pictures is superb, and probably surpasses most other "pros" as you put the extra effort into it still.

You are taking the shots and giving the copyright away for them to get their own prints done, that automatically bumps the price up as most pros will arrange for the prints in order to earn the extra cash. Copyright free images cost £100 a piece and a lot more... Take a look on some of the good photo stock sites and see what the pros ask!

Some people would charge over £1000 for what you are going to do, but others would probably do it for £50.

I did a set for a local firm, one hours photos, one hours pp and the copyright given to the company so that they could print what they wanted and I charged £150 as I knew the owner. He was chuffed to bits and commented how good the price was. You could probably ask £200-250 and it would be approved without second thought as they know your work already.

It always depends on who you're working for though. Some people understand the value of your work and others think that because it is all digital, it doesn't cost you anything so you shouldn't charge as much in return. The people who don't want to pay always want the world in return in my experience so I try and steer clear!

Good luck

 

[Moz168]

For white background/cutout work I do it £20 per shot.
I just done a job for company that supplies the Gems that go on the Deadmau5 mouse heads and did about 15 shots of the different colours and sizes, in a day. So worked out alright for me. If it had run into 2 or 3 days then it wouldnt of been good really.

I pretty much included worldwide license for most stuff, bad I know but atm for me, I cant be bothered with the hassle of it and them having to follow it up in a year, checking up on them ect, plus they tend to be smaller companies I do work for and then just dont seem to get it, they usually want full copyright. But you could always add a premium to have a worldwide license over a national, or just for web ect

How many shots to you think you could get done in a day?
Or how many days will it take you to shoot?

What would you be happy making per day?

I've already done a set of images for them, they've asked how much they owe me, but I will say not to worry as it was a first time, sort of breaking the ice job.

Get a deposit for this job then.

 

[Moz168]

Quite apt...

http://blog.photoshelter.com/2011/05/why-day-rates-are-bad-for-photographers.html

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

Cheers Andy - sound advice.

I emailed her earlier with my terms. I did point out that the images would be hers to keep, and do whatever she likes with them.

Hope I get a reply soon

 

[planetx]

no matter what you decide on charging you must always retain copyright.

 

[bully]

Agree with Andy. Don't sell yourself short.

Remember that there is a big difference between you...someone who has invested time and money into the gear and lots of practice....and the likes of me who is just a bloke who takes a few photos. There is a world of difference between what we can do, my family etc would accept a few of my snaps to dot about the house but in a pro world they wouldn't cut it. I am not selling myself short either just giving you a perspective on your charges.

If companies want to pay some idiot like me to go cheap then they will get cheap.

Lets put it this way, I am trying to start a business and need some pics done to sell. I aint doing them myself ;-)

 

[Derelict-UK]

I use this, if you think it is a little too much, take what you think would be the correct amount off per customer, but they are the industry standard so if you are pricing over this, then don't be offended if they tell you to piss off lol.

http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesguide/index.php?&section=Photography&subsect=All&subsubs=All

I used it to price a picture, According to the guide I should have charge about £320 including all the extras they asked for, but I quoted them for £295, they said that was too much so we settled for £265, it is a good starting point for them to negotiate you down to.

Oh, and I kept the copyright on that image too, as Andy said, if you are selling your rights away, slap a couple of hundred on top of EACH image.

OR Sell the photos under license to use them for product images to be used on their website only and not for promotional use elswhere etc etc without contacting you prior and you can invoice them for other usage if and when they need to.

Unless they are paying top dollar, never, ever sell an image including copyright, only sell with limited licences. You could say that their are no reproduction fees, but again, you keep the copyright on all images.

 

[DaveDreads]

no matter what you decide on charging you must always retain copyright.

A photographer retains copyright regardless, unless specifically asked to sign it over which is rare in my experience.
I've been commisioned to do jobs where the client wanted unlimited usage rights,
which is almost like giving away copyright but as the photographer you still retain the right to use the images for self promotion.

Some jobs insist on unlimited usage rights and if you say no then they go somewhere else and you don't get the job.

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

Thanks again guys.

I emailed her last week with my pricing, haven't heard back yet

Although I've been told she's on holiday, so I'll keep my fingers crossed

 

[RyanD]

Picture-pal/dontstayin/tillate all dont get paid and are all sent via the agency. Complete f**king joke imo.

I do a fairly large part of my work in this sector and not all true tbh.

pic-pal the staff are paid (or were at around £6 per hour + commision) but laregly the images are piss poor and people are encouraged not to use their own kit and the stuff provided is pants.
DSI not all are free, although you give your copyright to DSI/Mixmag for print when you sign up. As its a big clubbing network people do approach them for pro spotters for paid work, for the rest its just a way of showing images.
Tillate - scum I take great pride in throwing them out of dj booths when they shouldnt be there, nicking their 'clients' and generally winding up the mongs who shoot for them week in week out thinking that the little laminated pass makes them important. The contract with them removes any ownership to the photographs from the photographer

But its not just groups like these, I often see posts on my main clients facebooks etc... from random people 'offering' to snap professional pics for free....

Now thats over with back on to dan.

Dan even if you are learning dont be afraid to charge a good days rate, you will still have the same overheads with kit and insurance as any other tog, and then lets face it every tog I know still admits they are learning every day. Charge whatever you feel your time is worth and if someone is willing to pay it they are if they are not they wont. Ultimately its your call and no matter how you price yourself you will always be too cheap/too expensive to some prospective clients.

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

Wohoo!

Got an email today asking to sort out a days shoot of more products

I assume she was happy with my quote then!

Thanks again!

 

[Andy.]

Result! Nice one.

 

[Tigger]

By no means anywhere near the same level of quality as Dan's but need a bit of advice on pricing work too

I was asked to take some photos for friend of a friend's daughters Communion day.
I got a few shots in the Church after the Mass was over then met up later that day for a few family photos in their house.
No fancy lighting or backgrounds, just a nice part of the house and say cheese!

All they wanted was 20 7x5 prints, nice and simple
I was out taking the photos for no more than about an hour, I'll not mention how long it takes me to edit as I'm awful at it!

I use DSCL for my prints but what do people "put on top" to cover their expenses?

Cheers

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

^That's really hard, I've been too kind in the past and done a few weddings and other big occasions for friends completely free. I treat it as practice and to get experience for more occasions that I could charge for.

 

[Laura]

id be doing that for free tbh, although saying that i shot my mates race team at oulton park a couple of months back and he gave me £50 to cover my time.. i wouldnt have asked for anything tho

By no means anywhere near the same level of quality as Dan's but need a bit of advice on pricing work too

I was asked to take some photos for friend of a friend's daughters Communion day.
I got a few shots in the Church after the Mass was over then met up later that day for a few family photos in their house.
No fancy lighting or backgrounds, just a nice part of the house and say cheese!

All they wanted was 20 7x5 prints, nice and simple
I was out taking the photos for no more than about an hour, I'll not mention how long it takes me to edit as I'm awful at it!

I use DSCL for my prints but what do people "put on top" to cover their expenses?

Cheers

 

[Tigger]

Yeah I've done a few shots for mates birthdays and things like that for a few drinks in return, which is all good and builds the experience/gets the word out lol

This time I was asked to put a price on these though

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

id be doing that for free tbh, although saying that i shot my mates race team at oulton park a couple of months back and he gave me £50 to cover my time.. i wouldnt have asked for anything tho

Maybe I should start invoicing Burpspeed for all the race events I do for them