I'm doing a Mac vs. PC presentation...

[Curley]

I'm doing a presentation at work on Friday comparing Mac's against PC's. I have posted this in 'Apple Chat' because most Mac owners will have a good insight for a comparison, whether it's from working on PCs at work or owning them before seeing sense and purchasing their Mac.

Looking for a few ideas that could be threw in, I can picture myself sounding like a Apple employee but since Apple aren't actually paying me I want some 'pros' for having a PC.
I know they will be better for gaming, speccing your perfect system and upgrading components when you feel like it but I need some good sides of owning one on a day to day basis.

Please feel free to voice your Mac's pros and cons too. I know debates have been had in previous threads but instead of just slating each other I really do need some useful opinions and ideas, so can we keep this as civil as possible to help me with my presentation.

Thank you

 

[Dan1587]

pros; cheaper
more programs around for pc

cons; not a Mac

the problems with macs are they are so expensive. and my problem is that i bought a macbook pro, then another one came out not long after, which was the same price as the one before but totally better spec.

 

[The Boosh!]

Whats the story you are telling?

I understand you are doing a comparison but where will the presentation lead? You need to do an unbiast view of both OS and finalise with which is best for what application.

Some pro's to Windows vs OSX is that windows is much easier to use for networking purposes if what i've read is correct.

It's also the 'common' corporate system, so you will have some compatibility issues if business X tries sending business Y a file and vice versa.

Office packages (in particular excel) are far superior in Windows, as there is the functionality of visual basic. The interface is also much nicer on windows.

Somewhere in your argument you need to mention that macs cost a fortune and justify why they do. If I were you I would try and stick in your summary that Mac's are better for personal/home users but in a corporate environment they aren't massively good due to the windows platform being the norm.

Apple are also much more innovative (imo) than microsoft, which is something else you could say.

 

[Dan1587]

But then again excel is made for windows, therefore iLife is Macs version which is good but i agree sometime windows is better, then again its down to prefence i guess.

 

[Turkish]

pros; cheaper
more programs around for pc

cons; not a Mac

the problems with macs are they are so expensive. and my problem is that i bought a macbook pro, then another one came out not long after, which was the same price as the one before but totally better spec.

That last sentence is true of most technology, TV's, Head units, PC's, Audio equipment, list is endless.

For me, slick, intuitive OS, stable, secure. Bottom line is that PC owners will always cite performance specs and cost effectively playing the bang per buck card. Fair enough if you're on a budget or if they're your biggest motivators such as people who use their PC's for gaming. A Mac will never be the right choice for them and the most hardened apple fanboi would be crazy to suggest otherwise.

They are however great for people who appreciate they way they work and design, it's akin to comparing the Bugatti Veyron and Caterham on the Top Gear laptime board, very close on times but a completely different product aimed at a different user...

 

[The Boosh!]

But then again excel is made for windows, therefore iLife is Macs version which is good but i agree sometime windows is better, then again its down to prefence i guess.

I think you mean iWork and the application within iWork is Numbers !

Using both on a daily basis in a corporate environment, numbers is much better for personal use (i.e keeping track of your finances and doing basic analysis) however for more advanced/involved/complex/corporate stuff excel is much much much MUCH better, but then were getting into specific programmes rather than an OS comparison.

 

[Dan1587]

Nah, I meant iLife, its got Numbers, Pages and Keynote, kinda like Office, didn't explain too well!
And yeah I totally agree, its just kinda annoying but hey!! Tech is moving so fast!

EDIT: Your right, im thinking iPhoto in my head and writing Numbers!! LOL

 

[The Boosh!]

Nah, I meant iLife, its got Numbers, Pages and Keynote, kinda like Office, didn't explain too well!
And yeah I totally agree, its just kinda annoying but hey!! Tech is moving so fast!

EDIT: Your right, im thinking iPhoto in my head and writing Numbers!! LOL

Was going to say!
http://www.apple.com/ilife/

http://www.apple.com/iwork/

 

[Dan1587]

Its late, give me a break!! Lol
Are you using a Mac? Tbf for what I use mine for; CS mainly and a little more browsing I could easily of saved £500 and bought a normal laptop! But I had no outgoings and it seemed a good idea at the time!

 

[Steven103]

As people have said the absolute nail on the head in this thread is about where you are using them and what for. People can throw around generic statements (windows is s***, macs are faster, all windows PCs get viruses all the time) all they want but the massive majority of them are plain wrong as people don't understand when each statement or argument is true, let alone valid.

Once you slap a context on the table, this will be easy but until then it's a gigantic can of generalised or mis-informed worms

Oh and then there's all the "facts" that people forget to put "IMO" before stating them

 

[Dan1587]

Very true, but i think he just wanted peoples opinions on the whole subject!
Isn' windows 7 meant to be brilliant? Anyone using it?

 

[Steven103]

P.S. Good luck with this presentation, hope it goes well!

As it's for work I'm assuming this could be pretty serious so it's well worth putting your own opinion aside. Your second sentence shows that you've already made up your mind as to which is better! We don't know the details but obviously this could either be a few board members deciding whether they want an iMac in their office, or this could be a decision about spending literally hundreds of thousands of pounds equipping (and maybe converting your entire network infrastructure etc!) your company with macs!

I can't stress enough how important the context is. For example every single advantage of a windows PC whilst true would be completely and utterly irrelavent if you're in the media production industry as mac-based software is the industry standard so in this scenario it doesn't matter that PCs would cost your company a third of the price, last longer, require less training and be much more flexible in the long run. Those are all true statements, but in my example go out the window because of something no-one can control!

 

[Jason_E]

Just put a big thing on the screen that says "In life, you get what you pay for." And be done.

 

[Munson]

Mac>PC. End.

Apart from gaming.

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

More information needed...

Also a little gripe of mine - Macs are PCs. A PC is a personal computer.... the OS makes the difference (amongst other things) !

I use Apple at home and have always used Windows on crappy Dell machines at every office based job I've ever had.

As above, what is the 'debate' for ? Cost ? Looking cool at StarBucks ? Entering the 21st century technology wise ? Efficiency levels ? Too many staff smashing mice into screens due to Windows being a royal PiTA ?!

 

[Dink]

yeah it should be apple os vs. windows os

as linux is a lot closer to being as good as apple os (just taking into account os not other software) yet it is still a pc

 

[wozzaa]

From an end user point of view windows 7 and OSX are very similar in terms of speed on the same hardware.

They both have their pros and cons. Networking and Multiple monitors on the windows platform is better than it is on the mac. General ease of use OSX wins. As I said pros and cons.

If you are just doing simple design work etc the mac is probably better, when it comes down to 3D modelling and rendering the Mac hardware just isn't as capable.

Gaming, well we don't need to go there. Windows blows OSX out of the water in terms of speed when games are brought into the mix. Some of the cross platform steam games I have seen frame rates rise by over 100% under windows for the same graphical details.

It all comes down to the person using the system and what they need it for. A lot of professionals will be using programs in both Windows and OSX as it is the only good way to get everything done using the best programs. So they will run both.

However any time high end hardware is needed, a "pc" is going to win.

But you also have to take into consideration the multiple OS's you can use. Is this Windows vs OSX or a PC vs Apple?

As quite simply when you bring linux and various other OS's into the argument things get more complicated. There is no one superior platform, it just depends on what the system is needed for.

 

[Munson]

^^Post of the week TBH actually.

 

[Adam.]

I manage a network with a large amount of Macs and an equal amount of Windows machines so here's a non biased view

OS wise...people prefer MS stuff to Apple. Some people can't work out a mac keyboard, @ " # aren't in the same place for example.

Document compatibility...we've never had any, we use office 2007/2010 on the Microsoft and office 2008/2011 on the Mac's.

A lot of bespoke programs (we use quite a few) don't work on mac.

Cost is alot more for mac hardware. Also decide if you want to factor in the cost of Apple care. We use our's on a weekly basis usually(anyone who tells you mac are reliable is lying, they are no more/less reliable than their hp/dell equivelant). Apple usually come to our workplace instead of us taking it to them as we use it that much! (last week they turned up within 20 minutes of us emailing them )

Networking - not really a problem, Mac's are easier to network than windows 7, but about as equal as Windows XP.

Quite a few of the printers we use are not supported on the mac so that's something you might want to take into account.

All our main servers are Xserve's. You need a mac to be able to run Server Admin in order to manage them. Bit of a PITA as I need to manage windows servers too.

USB drives between Mac and windows can be a royal pain in the backside.

If it's for the corporate environment, I'd stick with Windows unless you work in publishing.

Don't get me wrong, I really like mac's...but in the work place they can be a pain, although I do like the ability to 'unlock' the control panel when logged in as a restricted user!


Also worth noting that if you get mac's you can also run Parallels. Although this can prove to be quite a challenge for normal basic users.

At the end of the day, would a mac do anything better in a corporate environment than a pc can? Probably not.

 

[Sym0n]

http://www.squrl.com/collections/50708/

No need to thank me.

 

[david87]

i manage a small - medium sized networks split between mac and windows (everything from XP to 7)

now office is on mac theres no compatability problems there, and the main program used on the macs is final cut pro

if theres one thing about the macs is they are expensive. so much that is free on PC seems to pack a cost on the macs. needed an updated video codex the other day and they wanted £20, this stuff is all free and open source on windows and linux

imacs are pretty poor. no way to upgrade them for additional pci slots which is a major pain, but mac pro's are pretty awesome, they have the best designed cable management i have ever seen.
stability wise windows 7 beats snow leopard so far. had to rebuild a few SL installs that were barley a year old.

mac hardware i just so expensive though. if it weren't for FCP we could be running windows and saving literally tens of thousands per year

 

[Darren S]

I manage a network with a large amount of Macs and an equal amount of Windows machines so here's a non biased view

OS wise...people prefer MS stuff to Apple. Some people can't work out a mac keyboard, @ " # aren't in the same place for example.

Document compatibility...we've never had any, we use office 2007/2010 on the Microsoft and office 2008/2011 on the Mac's.

A lot of bespoke programs (we use quite a few) don't work on mac.

Cost is alot more for mac hardware. Also decide if you want to factor in the cost of Apple care. We use our's on a weekly basis usually(anyone who tells you mac are reliable is lying, they are no more/less reliable than their hp/dell equivelant). Apple usually come to our workplace instead of us taking it to them as we use it that much! (last week they turned up within 20 minutes of us emailing them )

Networking - not really a problem, Mac's are easier to network than windows 7, but about as equal as Windows XP.

Quite a few of the printers we use are not supported on the mac so that's something you might want to take into account.

All our main servers are Xserve's. You need a mac to be able to run Server Admin in order to manage them. Bit of a PITA as I need to manage windows servers too.

USB drives between Mac and windows can be a royal pain in the backside.

If it's for the corporate environment, I'd stick with Windows unless you work in publishing.

Don't get me wrong, I really like mac's...but in the work place they can be a pain, although I do like the ability to 'unlock' the control panel when logged in as a restricted user!


Also worth noting that if you get mac's you can also run Parallels. Although this can prove to be quite a challenge for normal basic users.

At the end of the day, would a mac do anything better in a corporate environment than a pc can? Probably not.

This, in a nutshell, tbh.

Our marketing guys would love the company to be blanket-covered with Macs - but would that feasible for hairy-arsed warehouse staff on the trade counters? If I was a customer going to a home improvement supplier and their POS systems were Macs, I'd be thinking that I'm being ripped off with their prices!

Printers which Adam mentions are bizarrely an issue with us at work on the G5 Mac too. We have a high-end colour laser (which realistically should be bread & butter territory for the Mac) - but it causes a couple of issues a week when prinitng proofs to it. Not a major hassle, but strange regardless.

From a user point of view, I suspect the vast majority at work would MUCH prefer to have a Mac. However, I know that half of the apps we use, wouldn't have a hope in hell of running on a Mac in their current form. Whether or not they could be rewritten to be more Mac friendly, I'm not too sure.

It simply comes down to what you're going to need more than anything.

D.

 

[Munson]

I have UltraEdit Mac and Filezilla running on my MBP now, and very rarely bother booting into Windows. For me, there's very little software that I need Windows for, and that's a bold statement considering some of the interfaces we work with. In fact I was using a bespoke Windows app the other day to do some live online editing, and it killed the f**king machine. Serial. Full system recovery required. Like WTF. Fu*ck you Windows!

I will always own a million euro PC though, simply because it makes me better than those with budgets to worry about.

 

[Steven103]

Now that there's been lots of really useful posts I feel i can elaborate on the cost issue a bit more without feeling guilty Calling macs a cost "issue" is an understatement worthy of FLOL'ing. Mac Pro "upgrades" cost hilarious amounts of money:

RAID Controller - £584... a decent one can be had for £200 not to mention that most motherboards can handle decent sized RAID arrays for free!
2TB 7200 RPM Hard drive - £245... or £60 from a normal shop
upgrade to 6GB of triple channel, 1333MHz, RAM - £180... or £60 from a shop
adding a second ATI HD5770 - £204... or £80 from a shop
adding a 512GB SSD - £1174... or £475 less from a shop

and my personal favourite... a DVD+-RW drive is £80 which makes it 500% of the RRP anywhere else...


But then again being able to use, say, Final Cut if you're in the industry is priceless...

 

[Revels]

Yes but that's upgrades and a totally separate issue.

All manufactures sting you for things like that, in all industries.

 

[Turkish]

Sadly in the mac vs PC debate people are usually comparing chalk and cheese in particular when banging on about price. The usual "oh my gaming rig cost x amount and is x times faster etc. I'm sure the gaming rigs in question aren't an AIO and instead are a tower + monitor. How big is that monitor? Is it as crisp as the one in a mac? Smart aluminium and glass construction etc?

It's just a pity people feel the need to try and prove which is "better" it simply boils down to what you want from the machine in question in both form and function stakes.

Another thing that's also worth bringing up are residuals. Name another desktop or AIO or laptop which doesn't have an apple logo on the back of it which will actually have any substantial resale value in 3,4,5 years time.

For some a windows desktop makes sense especially if you're the IT department of a company needing to equip an office with machines for your staff. At home are you a heavy gamer? again mac is not going to be the choice for you. Just accept though for some people the price is not an issue and OSX plus the build/aesthetics & form of an iMac fits their want/needs.

I'd be interested to see what people come up with that ticks all the spec of the 27inch iMac in an AIO with a high end screen etc that's capable of trumping the spec and build quality at a lower price for arguments sake.

 

[DB.]

Since converting, and using the occasional PC inbetween, My mac bareley ever gets 'Non responding', I think I have had the multicoloured circle about 5 times in nearly 2 years, where has on a PC I get about 5 non responding per useage of a computer!

 

[Steven103]

I'd be interested to see what people come up with that ticks all the spec of the 27inch iMac in an AIO with a high end screen etc that's capable of trumping the spec and build quality at a lower price for arguments sake.

You're right, for a start are there even any other 27inch AIOs? nevermind one with a dedicated GFX card, a high spec screen and decent-ish CPU.

It's the same as pretty much anything else that comes in different shapes and sizes - it just depends on your needs. I'm not a fan of traditional muscle cars but if I wanted bold looks, torque, a lazy ride, didn't care about near-supercar running costs and never went around corners then I'd love to have one.

And then there's the fact most people compare a brand new Mac to a 3 year old bargain-basement PC

 

[SamP]

Since converting, and using the occasional PC inbetween, My mac bareley ever gets 'Non responding', I think I have had the multicoloured circle about 5 times in nearly 2 years, where has on a PC I get about 5 non responding per useage of a computer!

You obviously dont use your Mac hard enough then. I cant f**king get rid of the beachball of death most of the time.

 

[Adam.]

Another thing worth noting, Apple no longer make rack mounted servers, these were pulled at the end of January.

To me, that would indicate Apple are not as keen on the 'corporate' market as they used to be.

Now you've got the choice of a Mac Mini or a Mac Pro.

 

[david87]

Another thing worth noting, Apple no longer make rack mounted servers, these were pulled at the end of January.

To me, that would indicate Apple are not as keen on the 'corporate' market as they used to be.

Now you've got the choice of a Mac Mini or a Mac Pro.

the next mac pros are going to be 19 inches and designed to fit into server racks

 

[Adam.]

the next mac pros are going to be 19 inches and designed to fit into server racks

That's true.

But worth noting at this present time nothing is available.

 

[@Spoonie]

Whats the story you are telling?

I understand you are doing a comparison but where will the presentation lead? You need to do an unbiast view of both OS and finalise with which is best for what application.

This.