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Immobiliser? Can I fix it?



  Clio
Ok... so the reason I say "can I fix it", is beacause I know nothing about cars. Nothing... at all. Sorry. But what an excellent opportunity to look at me like a blank canvas! :)

So... please excuse my ignorance, and instead of having a go at me, please direct me to a place where I can learn instead.


Problem:
Clio (2001) won't start.

Now, I've not personally tried to start the car at all. Bought it a week ago, OH took it for a test drive, and she ran "great". Since then she's been sitting until last night, when I asked OH to move her, so I could have a go starting her up today.

Battery was dead, so OH jump started it. This made her crank (am I using the right terminology here?), but not actually start.

OH then changed the battery, again this made her crank (surely that cannot be correct... ), but still wouldn't start.

To cut a long story short(er! Hahahahaha. I tend to ramble) 2 hours later, the Clio will happily crank but not actually run. He checked the spark plugs (fine), topped her up with petrol (in desperation), as mentioned changed the battery... and no luck.

I've been reading the other posts here (and been reading on other places on the web): The windows work fine. The locks however are playing up. At one point OH left the keys in the ignition, closed the door, and the keys got locked in! Something he claims should be impossible with the keys in the ignition. Luckily I got my set, so it wasn't a problem in itself, however he's never experienced anything like it (although his expertise when it comes to cars stops at changing brakepads).

The immobiliser light keeps flashing at all times.


Reason for problem?
Now... here's where I've been reading to see what can have caused this... and these are the different explenations I've seen around the web:

1: Crankshaft Sensor. I don't know what this is. Apperantly it's above the flywheel (which, ofcourse, I got no idea what is), and can be accessed by removing two bolts (I know what a bolt is. Hahahaha).

2: Problem key

3: Thingy-bob around ignition keyhole faulty

4: Broken wire in wiring loom (again, drawing a blank here)

5: Loose starter motor connection

6: Leaky sunroof (damaging wires)


Solutions:
More ramblings coming up...

1: Crankshaft Sensor... I'm assuming the crankshaft sensor is the same as the crank sensor, if I'm mistaken, please correct me. I've found this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XzW3WztM8U Should I attempt this? Or could I make things worse?

2: Problem key. Possibly. But we get the same result with both keys. Would it be worth getting a replacement key?

3: Apperantly it's possibly to change the plastic ring containing coil wire that fits around the ignition keyhole. And it should be possible to get a replacement from an old Clio, and swap it around. Would this be something we would be able to do ourselves (I'm ruling me alone out on this one... bound to bugger it completely! Hahahaha)?

4: Wiring loom: If this is an example of what that looks like http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?252642-Another-1-8-16v-cliosport-conversion/page8 I think if that's the solution, then it won't be done by either me or OH... depending on price it will either be a mechanic or sell the car.

5: Loose starter motor connection: As mention, I know nothing about cars... so I might have gotten this wrong - is this a small red wire from the battery? If so, then I've read that wiggling it a little might do the trick. If that's the case, would the immobiliser light keep flashing?

6: Leak: Hmmmm... I read this, and the car has just has a replacement sunroof not too long ago - could this actually be a cause? Is there wires there that somehow affects the immobiliser? (This to me doesn't make any sense, if there is)

7: One-step-fix: Get rid of the immobiliser! I didn't know this was possible - but read this http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...pass-removal&p=9539848&viewfull=1#post9539848 Would this be advised (even if the Clio can be fixed now)? If we can fix her now, would we get similar problems in the future? Would this be an expensive thing to do?



It all comes down to dosh, I'm afraid. If we cannot fix her, or it will be just a small expense with a mechanic - the car will go. Got her for me to learn how to drive, and currently the only thing I've learnt is that there could be quite a few things that causes a Clio not to start. Hahahaha.



Thank you all for your time, and also for any help. I know it's been covered a few times before, so sorry for yet another post on the subject, but I was trying to gather as much info as possible together in one post. I am hoping it will be something I can fix myself, as it would be a lovely surprise if the car starts when OH finishes work (I'm at work, which is where the car is). Now... I'm off to see if I can manage to open the bonnet. :D Hahahah.
 
Sit in the car, look at the immob light - is it flashing slowly?

NO: Ok, not a great start.
NO -> Solid Red: Immob fault.

YES: Good! Put the Key in the ignition, and turn it around so everything comes on - but not far enough to start the car.
The light should change and you'll hear the fuel pump prime.

Does it start flashing quickly?

YES: Immob cant read the key - Dodgy key. Turn the car off and then just immediately turn the key around again. I have to dot his anywhere between 1-10 times a day because my key is dodgy.

NO -> Light Goes Solid then out/Just goes out -> START IT! It might turn over a few times, mine does this too -> Dodgy Crank sensor i think is the culprit. Either jsut keep turning it over a bit, or lightly let the key spring back and fire it agian. Ususally starts 2nd time around. If you keep jsut cranking the starter, you'll kill the battery, maybe the starter too.


If it is being dodgy you CAN buy an immobiliser bypass, you need the code from your key which can be found in the back of your manual or under the key cover itself. However, this obviously stops the immobiliser working and makes the car ridiculously easy to steal.

If the immobiliser goes solid and wont fire the car at all, it's an expensive replacement as you need to replace:
Possibly the immobiliser itself
The UCH
All Keys
All door and boot locks
Petrol flap lock

If you can get those cheap, then you can do that, the bypass circuits are very cheap but obviously make the car easy to steal.

Crankshaft sensors are cheap as chips and 2 bolts to replace, from what i remember - due to their design and method of operation, they do just wear out.

Broken loom wires would cause the immob fault, i recall a post saying it's the brown(might not be 100%) wire from the decoder ring around the ignition, that sends the key code to the immobiliser. If this gets broken, you'll get the solid red fault light.


Sorry i can't be of more help to you, all the above is based on knowledge i've picked up and the song and dance i go through to start my own clio. If i cant get it started WITH the keys, i feel better knowing someone without them will have an even worse time ;)
I'm sure someone will be along to confirm/trash everything i've said.

you may also find this helpful: http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?442614-Clio-immobiliser-non-starter
 
Last edited:
  Clio
Thank you so much Zeitgeist!

For all your help, and for not being patronising (I know I must seem like a complete plonker to everyone, but so nice not to point it out!).

The step by step was great - I went into the car armed with the laptop and your post, and also this one open on a different page http://www.wikihow.com/Drive-Manual Hahahaha - I did say I know nothing about cars.

Flashing slowly = good! Yay!
Solid then out (I'm sure yesterday it stayed on) = good! Yay!

However, it wouldn't start. I only tried it 3 times though, due to the fact that I worry I'll mess things up more than I'll fix them. :)

So, Crankshaft Sensor the biggest culprit. I figured out how to open the bonnet (*does a little dance*), so if it stop raining I shall give removing it (armed with the video posted in my op, and this http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/nabilc/2011-06-12_154601_sss.jpg , where it's apperantly B4.4, or so they say) and cleaning it a go, and then order a new one if no luck.

Again... thank you so much for your time and answers! Hopefully I shall be a driver one of these days... :)
 
No problem mate, glad I could help somewhat!

Mine has a bit of trouble starting sometimes, I find if as you start it and it doesnt fire, let the key spring back, just a little bit so it doesnt quite stop anf then turn it all the way again, it might make bit of a hectic noise but it usually starts.
 
If I remember, i'll try and get you a video of mine /not/ firing when i get out of work. It also only really seems to do it from cold, if i;ve been driving about, it usually starts fine.
 
  Clio
Again Zeitgeist - thank you so much for your patience and help!

And no... I haven't dropped off the planet... nor has the Clio started. Hahahaha!

So, I ordered a new Crnkshaft Sensor, which arrived, and has been fitted... and there's no difference at all! Ack!

Car will still crank, but there's no firing of the actual engine. *cries*

And although my other half has been driving since I was born (hahahaha!) he's not very car-savvy... and I of course no nothing about them... but, as the spark plugs are supposedly fine, he;s now thinking "fuel pump".... and he's also told me I should call a mechanic... which I'm currently refusing to do! The blooming car was starting and driving fine when bought, so surely it's gotta be something fairly easy that I can fix myself.

After a little bit of googleing... there's a fuel pump fuse!!! Now that sounds like the sort of thing that I can fix... now, all I got to do is figure out where it is... Hahahahah.
 


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